unsettled horse!

[suem]

Can anyone offer me any suggestions/thoughts/ideas as to why my new (ish - bought in October) horse gets very restless and paces the fence to come in after only a couple of hours out?
We bought Carlo (13 yr old WB) and he is quite a nervous horse though very good - just gets silly with anything new! He took a while to settle in - we have a pony and another horse (mare) but kept them in separate (but adjoining paddocks) for the first few weeks - out overnight until my mare then developed a foot abcess (beginning of Nov) and has been stabled for the last 10 weeks. I continued to let him and the pony out each morning but within a couple of hours (soemtimes less) he starts trotting and pacing along the fence towards the stables. He can see the stables and see my mare but just gets really worked up. He has even worked out how to lean on the wooden bars of the way out and break them - we have two wooden bars across the way out - fitted into brackets. Interestingly when he has broken out he doesn;t come back to the stables but roams and eats the grass in the garden! We have rectified this with electric tape which seems to work. However he still trots along the fence back and forth for hours!
The previous owners did tell us he didn;t come in alone - always had to be brought in with the other horse as he was quite clingy!
It is driving me mad because I am only able to let him out on days when I am at home because I worry that if I let him out whilst I am away for the whole day (at work) when I get back and its dark he may well have broken out
I have just started to let my mare back out again (in the adjoining paddock) and hoped he would then settle back into staying out all day BUT ..... you guessed - by the afternoon he is pacing again!! Yesterday I let him out at 7am and by 3pm he was pacing - I went to get him in and he ran off!! so I brought the mare and pony in and went back to him (still trotting around) and he wouldn;t come to me!!! I walked up to him and brought him in and he was as calm as anything!
I am really at a loss as to what is going on in his head and what I can do to help him. Any ideas ?????????
Many thanks in anticipation!!!
Sue

[Big Ears]

some horses, and i have one just like that, do not cope with being turned out alone - they are herd animals and often they bond very closely with another horse, and when it is not there they get distressed. my mare fence walks, sweats up, has panic/asthma attacks if she is alone, and can get into a lather in the short time it takes me to turn out her companion then come back for her.

there is no real solution to it other than him having company - even a sheep or a shetland, just something with him.

i have had molly since 1994 and she gets madder by the minute - she is a very highly strung and neurotic mare which is often on Planet Molly which is somewhere not often visited by humans or other horses. her anxiety I think dates back to being separated from a foal, but she is extremely clingy. some are some are not. sadly you often have to work within their framework as my experience is that they don't generally improve

[Jessey]

They can improve, with time and patience, admittedly there are some that won't but lots will. My guy hates being left but has never minded leaving the others (to be ridden etc) so if I need to leave him out on his own I bring all of them (my 3 that share the field) in and then turn Qaboos back out, this way he thinks he left them and dosen't bother at all, a simple trick but it works for me.

Suem - as your mare is now back out and he is still pacing to come in perhaps it is less to do with her and more to do with food or his comfort zone. Is he happy to be stabled alot? some horses, if there not used to being out for long periods find comfort/saftey in their stable. Is there any chance he is being bullied by your pony? he may want to get out of the field rather then back to the stable. Your mare may have been 'looking out for him' and since shes been out of the herd the pony has taken advantage of his nervous character? Is there pleanty of forage in the pasture?

As the mare is now back out but he is still doing this I think it is less likely to be seperation anxiety but something else, is there anything else that changed around the same time as your mare went on box rest? we had a horse at our yard who was moved into another field (with her companions) and she repeatedly jumped out, put her back in the other field (50 meters away) and she hasn't done it since, some times there is no explaination but something as little as this can upset them, esp if they are very sensitive.

J

[suem]

Thanks Jessie and Big ears!
I do not put any of the horses together in the field at the moment to avoid any problems of bullying - when I first bought Carlo I had my mare and the pony together - my mare is very calm and no trouble at all - the pony is a typical alpha mare - bully and bossy - hence the reason I donlt put her with Carlo but I do put her in an adjoining paddock so that Carlo has always had company.
He is out at the moment with my mare in one paddock, pony in another and him in another - all close together though! So its seems he has the company.
The grass seems ok - better than a lot of other fields around here and I have tried moving him into other paddocks to see if it makes any difference but it didn;t - he broke those fences to (broke 11 so far) so have electric fence across all exits!
Am out of ideas - the previous owner said they took his shoes off and just let him out all winter so he is obviously used to being out - albeit with several horses rather than just 2 others - surely this cant be it!!
Confused and frustrated Sue!

[SarahC]

My WB couldn't be left out on his own...even though there were horses in the adjoining paddocks...mares on one side and geldings on the other. He needed to have company in his own field. He was also quite a nervous horses and took ages to settle into his new home properly.

If he got left in his own field on his own, he would gallop wildly around, neighing his head off until he was bought in. So it ended up that if anyone ever bought their horse in and it would leave him on his own, they would bring him in aswell.

This may not be the case with you, however I thought I'd mention it, as it didn't make any difference to him that there were horses in adjoining fields...he HAD to have company in his own field.

Have you tried turning him out with others in his own field yet??

S

[Jessey]

Sounds like your doing all the right things. Could you try some toys in the field to try and convince him its a nicer place to be, I once tied a rope on a plastic water container and cut some little holes in it and put bits of carrot and stuff in it my boy spent hours kicking it and throwing it round.
Can't really think of anything else
good luck

J

[suem]

Sarah

Your description of your WB sounds just like Carlo!!!
I haven;t tried him in with Hati (my mare) yet - as she has been stabled for the last 10 weeks thought she might go mad and end up doing something - didn't want any accidents! However, she has now been out a week and wonder if maybe I could let her in the field with him - not much experience at this - do you think it would be ok??

[ANN H]

My girl will go out on her own until she realises that she's the only horse in the field - then she panics. Its the same with coming in. She can't be the last one out of the field or she goes ballistic. If I bring her in before the other mares, she's OK as long as I don't go out of eyeshot - what a baby! Admittedly, she has improved since I got her.

[Big Ears]

many years ago I had a little MOrgan gelding who was quite fizzy.

we used to strip the field with electric fence and he would be able to see the donkeys but not be in with them as he tried to herd and chase them.

however some times the way we divided the field up he would settle and other times he wouldn't - he really wanted someone in with him.

Molly wants the other horse to be with her, not in the next field. She has fence walked the strip next to Rosie, as Rosie is recovering from laminitis, so is allowed a couple of hours grazing in the big field with everyone then comes into a starvation strip next to it (still in same field) with a bit of hay- Molly will fence walk the perimeter even though she has the donks with her!

When we bring them in at night, if I bring Rosie in first, by the time I get Molly she is dripping wet, covered in mud, as she has been galloping up and down - I inly have to lead Rose across the road, across a yard into the stable (and the donks are still there!!) but silly mare feels she is the only horse on Planet Molly.

Sorry not to be more encouraging but I have been dealing with this since 1994 and I still haven't found the ideal solution!! I think maybe he wants to be IN with something, so that he can groom and feel more secure.

[SarahC]

Thats why I wanted to post, cos they sound soooo similar!!

If it were me...and bear in mind that I'm not that experienced. I would turn them both out together, for a short time and I would stay and watch them. Next day I would turn them out for a bit longer etc etc. In all the times that I've done this, the horses usually settle down however, you have to expect that they would have an argument at some point or other. With my boy, he was being turned out with 8 other geldings and whilst they had a bit of a buck at each other and a nibble, within a few hours they were all grazing happily with each other.

Alot depends on whether your two like to get stuck in!! My boy would turn away from any trouble and just trot off down the field so the risk of injury was minimal. There was also no other field that he could go in, so I had to just put him out and risk it!!

Is your mare still injured herself though?

S

[suem]

S
No - she had this foot absess and lost a lot of hoof but it is dried up now (big hole but looks ok) so I am breaking her in gently - been riding out on roads and letting her out all this week for increasingly longer periods of time - all day wed and will do again today.
She is laid back though - usually - having a bit of a gallop and buck at the moment as i think she is soooooo relieved to be let out after being cooped up for long long! Carlo isn't a bully and they do love each other -when we ride they always nuzzle and seem calm together so maybe I will give it a try when I have been out for a ride this afternoon - that way they will have been out all morning alone AND had a ride so should be quite calm (!???) - I can then let them out together for a short while before bringing them in for the night. I will let you know how it goes.
Thanks for your help!
PS what is yours like now - is he still mad if you don;t put him with another horse? how long have you had him?
S

[SarahC]

Sounds like a good idea to me...good luck and let us know how it goes!!

My boy was actually sold and went to his new home yesterday (boo hoo :( ). Unfortunately, he was just too much for me riding-wise and after nearly a year, I finally reached the decision that I was just too nervous of him and he should go to someone who would enjoy him and his little/big 'moments'!!

However, my boy was 15....and he never changed in the respect of being left alone. He was accidentally turned out on his own a few weeks ago, only for about 10 mins, but when I got to the field, he was going absolutely mental....he looked like a bloomin stallion the way he was carrying on! I don't personally believe its something that you can teach a horse to accept...unless they are a youngster.
He would also box walk if he was left alone in the stable block.

Anyway...good luck!

S

[Jessey]

When I put new horses together I try to put them out 'a little hungry' so after a good ride when they have had a couple of hours with nothing going in would be perfect, I only do this because more often than not, all they will want to do then is get their heads down asap, just distracts them from playing too much.
good luck, let us know how you get on.

J

[Big Ears]

Usually they sort it out in the first five minutes and it's not as if they don't know each other by now.

When Rosie and Molly got together, I let them sniff over doors, over fences for a bit, then graze in separate electric fenced paddocks then finally in together.

Rosie will kick Molly and Molly has no horse sense in that she will got right up behind Rosie and almost say here I am kick me.... but they usually are fine. I think with horses being turned out together unless they are separated all the time, there is always a risk, but then there is too if they are kept apart and jump fences, barge fences, get loose, so where does it end.

I put Molly on loan once and she got kicked after three days and broke her splint bone - the girl hadn't insured her either so it was a fine mess!

I am sure they will settle and be fine.

[chewitmonster]

My horse Silver hates being in the field alone! We have 8 horses in all and they are all paired up into fields. When Silver first came (November) he was put in the field alone. He was a nightmare to actually take to the field and release and absolutely hated it if he was left till last to be brought in so much so that he jumped the 5-bar gate and brought himself in!!

To save the fields they moved a pair into his field...all was well until one was taken out to be ridden - the other horse bullied Silver and cornered him in the field! They had to open the gate to the next field to join another horse (who they wanted to keep alone because he gets a little too playful and attacks rugs!). They are next to eachother in the stables and Silver and this horse get on really well. They go out on a morning have a play and a roll in their very own mud pit, then graze till just before they come in and then they have another belt round before coming in for tea.

Unfortunately Mire (Silvers best friend) has cut himself quite deep on what we think was some protruding wire so he has to stay in all day to avoid infection. Silver is being turned out on his own again and is becoming a nightmare again. Jumped the gate again last weekend and really plays up to be turned out. He is an angel to bring in mind and ride. Here's us praying Mire recovers quickly!!

So the point of my very long story...introduce him to the other horses...it settled mine down like a dream (he's a insecure 4year old as well) and so hopefully will with yours too! :) xxx

[suem]

To all those who offered me advice.....
I took the bull by the horns on Friday and rode out both horses (my gentle mare and the unsetteled Carlo) before turning them both out together in the paddock and .................................................................................................... .............................. you guessed......................an hour later Carlo was pacing along the fence!!
So I can conclude it isn;t being away from Hati, OR being in the field alone..... or being hungry (I put some hay in the field) .... SO WHAT TO TRY NOW??????????????
I can only think he is into a bit of a routine with this pacing lark and maybe I will just have to leave him out and hope he will settle. He does seem more content on nice sunny days (donlt we all??) but I want to get this sorted before spring as I want to start leaving them out overnight again (we did it when we first bought him!).
Any other ideas gratefull recieved!
Sue
PS Interestingly he had an hours schooling lesson today and was turned out with Hati and he stayed out happily until I brought him in at 430pm!!! But have done this before without the same effect! Is he taking the Mickky out of me?????:mad:

[Big Ears]

In Molly's case it isn't taking the mick, she is genuinely anxoius upset neurotic you name it, she just can't help herself.

Some days you could turn her out on her own and she would be fine, other days she would be totally on another planet, up and down -up and down- we can't turn her out on the sand school on her own as she trenches it - up and down one fence only till she has almost reached the Maginot Line.

However when Rosie had laminitis and wanted some company, she and Molly stayed happily on the sand.... I think, sadly, you just have to accept that this is how he is and ignore him.

Molly has gone out today, perfectly happy, herding her donkeys, Rosie in the starvation paddock, eating some hay, perfectly happy. Maybe the best thing would be to try, if possible, work him so that he is a bit tired before he goes out and then he may settle, but you may also find that he is worse if he has an audience. With Molly you often just have to walk away and leave her to it.