Panics when tied up - any suggestions?

[Karenpd]

I've had my gelding for a year now and he (and I!) have settled down well. There have been a few 'incidents', however, and I now realise that they all relate to his being tied up.

In the stable he is normally fine, quiet & settled (although on one memorable occasion he paniced and demolished the stable). When we're out anywhere he can panic if left for even a few moments (like when I'm getting something out of the car). The REAL problem is that although I can walk him onto the trailer (and out the other side) till the cows come home, once the breast bar is in place and he's tied up, he panics and the whole atmosphere changes. By the time we get anywhere I'm shattered, he's sweating etc etc.

What do I do? Up until now our 'trailer training' has been so successful, but I'm not sure how to approach the next stage of keeping him calm on board. I tried giving him his breakfast as he's normally mad keen for his food, but he wasn't interested!

Any ideas? Many thanks.

[Yann]

What sort of travelling does he do? Is it always with a purpose?

I think you're probably on the right track trying to feed him in the trailer and make it routine and pleasant to be in there. However he's obviously too anxious about being in there to eat at the moment. How about feeding him next to the trailer, say on the ramp or wherever he'll tolerate it. As his tolerance increases gradually move the bucket further in. Also try doing things like giving him a brush in or around it in the same fashion. After a while being in the trailer will be no great shakes. Once that's in place start taking him for very short trips, then reward him, and gradually build them up. The object is to make being in the trailer and travelling quite mundane and build up his tolerance of them.

Doing all of this in his travelling gear would be a good idea too so he doesn't learn to differentiate between 'real' and practice'.

[Karenpd]

Thanks for that - I understand what you mean - it's just odd that he'll go onto the trailer perfectly (and pause with me on board) but everything changes when the bar goes up. I'm reluctant to box him up fully if he's so uptight.

I have no need to go anywhere at the moment, but plan to box him up to get him to lessons, organised rides etc.

[Yann]

Just a thought, could you travel him without the breast bar and partition? Some horses apparently travel better if they're allowed to find their own angle and balance in the trailer or lorry.

[Karenpd]

I'm glad you said that, as I didn't want to ask - but how do you get the horse into the box AND keep him there AND get out yourself? The YO had mentioned the fact that his horse once escaped through the jockey door!

[Yann]

Is your trailer a single or a double? The obvious answer is to exit via the ramp instead if you have room to get past. Presumably he stands now to let you fix the tailbar and close the ramp as it is if you're single handed? Again it's maybe something to practice till you're both bored to death with it before you ever actually drive off anywhere:)

[galadriel]

Is it the breast bar or the tie? Could you travel him without tying?

My horse will "stand," with dropped lead, for me to scoot around back and close her in. I wouldn't ever tie in a horse who's not enclosed from behind.

My husband's horse doesn't "stand" quite so well, and so I only load her up when I've got someone on the ground to close her in after I load. It's just something to train into them, and I've never worked with her on that. Working on it now, of course, but at the moment I just don't set things up that way.

[virtuallyhorses]

It sounds like you need to do a little further diagnosis - does he panic when confined (breast bar and bum bar in place) and\or does he not know not to pull back (panic when tied) it may be one only or both problems.

If it is only when tied then you need to solve this without the trailer first - and you should check whether he completely understands not pulling back as I suspect this is the real root of the problem. If for instance he got his lead rope stuck somewhere would he panic or simply drop his head and wait - I suspect panic.

IMHO you first training exercises therefore should be all about head control - leading and making sure that he knows to give to pressure on the halter (really, not just 'good enough'), this should include the exercise 'head down' using the halter. All this should be done without being tied and while it is being taught the horse should not be tied - if you need him to stay somewhere stick him in a stall. Finally you should teach 'stand' or ground tieing - if your horse understands that it should stay where its put then tieing really isn't an issue.

Once you get all of this stuff working then return to the trailer. You can also be working on any claustrophia issues at the same time so by the time you get back to the trailer you should have a really calm happy horse (and human :) )

If you absolutely HAVE to trailer in the meantime - don't tie. I never do - I tie the horse's lead rope securely around the base of its neck (like the cavalry always have).

[Tootsie4U]

I need to clarify... sorry to interrupt.

Virtually - since you dont tie, Im wondering what kind of trailer you have. Does the horse have the entire box to roam around in?

Galadriel - "I wouldn't ever tie in a horse who's not enclosed from behind." Meaning a butt bar? Or that the ramps been put up?

If you dont tie, how do you all keep your horses from moving around too much? What about the standard that if only traveling one horse, they should be on the drivers side?

Just a tad confused. Im not a trailering expert but have just bought my own trailer and feel very uneducated right now :D

[Karenpd]

What do you mean by 'stand' and ground tieing? This is the horse who I am STILL trying to get to stand still for mounting, one year on...

[galadriel]

Stand:
http://lorienstable.com/articles/handling/250-voice-stand/

I leat Kat in, I drop the lead rope and say, "Stand," then go around back and close her in. *Then* I go back to the front and tie her. I would not tie a horse in a trailer, if the horse didn't have butt bar / butt chain / ramp up or whatnot.

I have a bumper pull trailer with two stalls. There's not enough room for a horse to turn around or move. I tie them anyway, because otherwise they'll turn their heads around, and I have nightmare images of getting their head/neck caught in the center divider.

It's not unusual to see a horse completely loose in a stock-type trailer. When a horse is completely loose, they will typically select the stance that best helps them keep balanced, and then be still. This is usually safest when done in a completely enclosed trailer, not the kind with half-height doors/ramp at the back.

[Tootsie4U]

Ah, I understand better now. Thanks

What is the reasoning for not tying first before you put the ramp up?

[galadriel]

Trailering is a kind of unique situation, in that the horse knows he's supposed to go in and out (well, more or less, depending on the horse!) If he gets startled or otherwise thinks that he is supposed to back out, before he's shut in...he can quickly get to the end of his rope and not be able to figure out how to release the pressure.

Just imagine a horse half in, half out of a trailer, neck stretched as far as it can go, tied to the front of the trailer, and fighting the tie. It is NOT pretty. I've seen it; thankfully I've never done it. Even a very well-trained horse who gives well to pressure can panic in that situation.

[Harry Hobbes]

Karenpd,

I posted the basic trailer training procedure in this thread: http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47262

The procedure requires that one take the time it takes to engage in "advance and retreat", so as to gradually acclimate the horse to the trailer environment. So be prepared to work over several sessions and not rush the horse. The procedure works on all manner of problem loaders: problem loaders merely require more repetition and "advance and retreat".

Best regards,
Harry

[virtuallyhorses]

I don't tie mainly because I don't see the point in it, I have a horse who is well trailer trained (and constantly in training) and because it is a lot more convenient for me as a single handed float loader. I have a double float but usually only have Imp and load him onto the drivers side. When I load I simply tie the lead rope around his neck and send him into the float. I either stand beside the float ramp or on it. When he's in I close the butt bar and ramp. At the other end I undo his tailguard and rear boots, undo the butt bar and ask him out (since he's not tied I don't have to go to the front) he then waits on the ramp while I undo his front boots and then untie the lead rope and then I ask him to back off the rest of the ramp.

I don't have a stallion grill and don't see any reason to tie his head - if he decides to turn his neck around and gawp out the back that's his problem not mine - it'll put him off balance and he'll learn not to do that for his own sake. I chose not to have much padding in my trailer on the sides for exactly this reason - I have seen horses getting 'comfy' lazing on the padding etc I want them to stand up on their on legs not use the sides of the trailer to lounge on ;)

[kedwards]

To back up Galadriel's warning, I have to admit that I have actually made this newby mistake myself... once. First time I tried to load Bud by myself, I thought, "Well I'll tie first, then go round and get the butt bar and ramp." Being still uncomforable with trailering and worried when Mum disappeared, he pulled back immediately to get out. Fortunately, in this case, my "safety" halter broke easily so nothing bad came of it. I have since never tied until the horse was safely in the trailer and the back was up.

[galadriel]

Originally posted by virtuallyhorses
if he decides to turn his neck around and gawp out the back that's his problem not mine - it'll put him off balance and he'll learn not to do that for his own sake.

Ah, if only my horses were as intelligent as Imp :) They can't figure that one out.