Very bad manners bordering on agression!

[Drummers mum]

In short, Drummer turned his bum on me in the stable today and pinned his ears to his head! How should I respond to this kind of behaviour?

I have learned not to leave him loose while I groom! but I've never had a problem before!

[clipclop]

If he is acting like that I would tie him up. A reprimand is in order too.

[Esther.D]

Well I don't know whether this is *correct* :rolleyes: but mine would get a good smack on the bum and a telling off for that kind of behaviour - it is just not acceptable!

[Drummers mum]

What sort of reprimand though?

When I had nipped out the way of his bum, I advanced on his head waving my arms and looking cross, but it was just spur of the moment!

I did tie him up then and he was fine while I saddled him, then as I walked back in with his bridle, he bumped me with his bum! :eek: He was definately having a grumpy day but however he felt that behavoiour is unacceptable!

Edit: Cross posted Esther, I have to confess that second time round I did give him a slap!

[galadriel]

In horsey perceptions, the one who can make the other move ends up on top.

So if he swings at you, and you move out of the way, you've already given in. Even if you then reprimand him, you've still let him know that he has more control of the situation.

Rather than move when he gets bratty,. stand your ground and reprimand him from there. Be VERY careful to watch out that he doesn't escalate. Often if you can catch them in the act and make them reverse themselves, they'll stop challenging--but sometimes they'll act on the implied threat.

You might want to start carrying a whip and tapping him with it if he seems about to be naughty.

[Drummers mum]

Thanks Gal, I kind of thought that, but trapped in a stable I was more worried about getting kicked, I think I might tuck a whip down my wellie tomorrow!

[amandal]

I shared a horse who did this, I used to make him turn around again so instead of me moving away from him he was moved away from me, around in a circle if possible.

[alwaysfallingof]

Ok...Max did this a lot when I first bought him, and will still do it occasionally now if he's in a bad mood.
What I did the first few times was swing the lead rope I was holding (I was trying to put a head collar on him) at his bum, planted my feet, or moved forwards half a step. But then again, I knew that he was just testing me, to see whether he could get away with it. When I didn't back down, he gave up. However, as Galadriel says, be very careful that he doesn't try to go one higher than you again, and actually kick out. How does he act normally if you come into his space eg to groom him when he's tied up, or to catch him in from the field?
With regards to the getting trapped in a stable, could you leave the door open when you go in, so that if it looks as though things are going beyond grumpy threats then you can make a quick exit, rather than having to run around the box.
Finally, once you've got his bum away from you, don't walk immediately up to him. Wait at the stable door until *you* decide to let him into your space.
Good luck

[shandy84]

Hey he's been talking to Bramble that's her old trick :D ;)

We solved that one fairly quickly, she got a sharp smack on the bottom and a "NO!!" if she persisted to move her bum into you or threaten with legs she got another slap and then (the only word I can think of is chased but it wasn't really as we slowly moved) but acted stoppy and made her move sorry it's kind of an instinct thng now rather than thought out.

Good luck, if you feel safer to do the smack with a whip do so, also a breast bar instead of stable door is helpful as an easy retreat if it does escalate

[Drummers mum]

Thanks, you have all been really helpful!

How does he act normally if you come into his space eg to groom him when he's tied up, or to catch him in from the field?

He is usually very friendly, ambles to meet you in the field and turns towards you when you enter a stable etc He is only a bit funny with his bits when you groom and he just swishes his tail and moves away now not try anything more. Only once before has he turned his bum on me and that was when I went to catch him about a month ago but when I moved round him to his head he came up ears pricked as usual!

Both these times have been in the middle of the day, not my usual winter after work visit, do you think he is grumpy because the routine has changed? He also has a new friend who plays with him but Drummer is the boss, do you think that could have triggered him to try bossing me?

Anyway, off to do some clicker training and Parelli!

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Drummers mum
He also has a new friend who plays with him but Drummer is the boss, do you think that could have triggered him to try bossing me?


Sure. Horses have a constantly fluid place in the herd. If Drummer's feeling like he's got a chance to advance, he may well be testing it out in *all* his relationships--that includes you.

In that case, if you smack him down (figuratively) when he pushes the line, he'll proabably be pretty willing to settle back into his previous place without too much fuss. Just be sure NOT to let him move your feet!

[Drummers mum]

Do you know, I think I am actually getting the hang of this, lol!:D I'm actually begining to work this out for myself and kind of understand whats going on! My biggest problem is being assertive, any tips on that Gal?

Update for today. I left him loose in his stable to groom him, but kept a wary eye, I kind of wanted to give him the opportunity so that I could quash it, but it never arose. I kind of felt him get upety once or twice but looked him in the eye and he settled.

A couple of times he walked around the box and I just carried on doing what I was doing and followed him round then asked him to stand and carried on. I think I need to tie him up from now on though so that he knows he must stand still. He isn't very respectful of my space unless I jump about a bit!:o

Also did some Parelli and clicker training which went very well!:)

[notpoodle]

that sounds scary! i know what you mean about being worried of being kicked! a stable isnt THAT big a space :rolleyes:

julia
x

[Drummers mum]

Yep, and its all very well saying don't move your feet, but...............................................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????? ??????????????????????:eek:

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Drummers mum
My biggest problem is being assertive, any tips on that Gal?

Take a deep breath, square your shoulders, and BELIEVE that you are bigger & stronger than he is ;) If you can convince yourself, your body language will convince him.

[Drummers mum]

Do you think meditation would work? Or perhaps one of those tapes you play when you are asleep? lol!:D

You are bigger than Drummer
You are the boss
You are stronger
You are bigger than Drummer
You are the boss
You are stronger
You are bigger than Drummer
You are the boss
You are stronger
You are bigger than Drummer
You are the boss
You are stronger

:o :D

[notpoodle]

have to say i would have moved out the the way, too! no use having 'but i didnt budge!' written on your plastercast :D

julia
x

[BackintheSaddle]

I am much bigger than my little pony, but when she puts up a fuss I still have to give myself a little pep talk and "get big". I know from experience that if I lose a battle of wills while tacking up she'll be impossible the rest of the day and won't do any work. She is on her best behavior when the first thing I do is turn her out in the arena and drive her in both directions using my body. This seems to set the tone for our relationship, and she is super affectionate afterwards. Strange pony.

[notpoodle]

i have touble getting BIG as well, but i am getting better at it :) mainly because i realised that pony is very capable of being a nuisance with seemingly little things.

BUT in a case like what drummer did i would ALWAYS put my own safety first

[galadriel]

Originally posted by notpoodle
have to say i would have moved out the the way, too!

Nah. Point of the elbow held out as he swings around, and he swings himself into something sharp and pointy! Ouch! Or quick poke with a whip, or even a knee. Nothing that will hurt, just to make him pause for thought: "Is this REALLY what I want to be doing?"

When the horse swings towards you, and you back off, you've just told him that he's the boss in your relationship. Now he'll push the boundaries even further, act out more, etc. Only way to stop it is to keep control of your feet--and control his.

[notpoodle]

but what if he kicks sideways and gets you anyway?

luckily i dont have that problem with my pony ...

jula
x

[galadriel]

Then...you make him wish he hadn't.

[Drummers mum]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

I like the elbow thing! The YO once said that the closer you are the safer you are and I think she's right. If you are right in close, there is no room to kick and you can stick with them, the minute you move away, you've had it!

I think I need to work on Drummers stable manners!