Agressive at Feeding Time!!!

[RodeoDreamer33]

Hi Everyone! Please Help if you can!!
A pony that I feed a lot (14 hand arab mare) is very agressive at feeding time. When I walk in with her grain she lunges at me. If I dont put it down right away or shoe her away from me, she'll turn around to kick me. I really hate to say it but she has trained me to just go in and put it down. I don't know what to do though because I have tried going back out and then going in again and keep doing that till she stands still but it doesnt work. I'm almost positive its not a real bad behavior problem because when I give her hay, water, or brush her in her stall she isn't this agressive. I also know that it isn't because she previously was not fed enough because I know exactly where she was for her whole life and she was getting fed plenty (actually she was being over-fed) Please help me because I dont wanna have to back off, but I dont want to be kicked!

[Harry Hobbes]

Your mare is only being dominant with you; and the thing to do, so that humans can be safe around her is to train her to take the subordinate role and wait until you allow her to have the grain.

Here's one effective method to train her:

1. Put her in a small paddock by herself, say about 50 feet by 50 feet (if she's not already in a paddock that size). You need enough room to be able to drive her around; a stall is much too small. (If you have a round pen, then use it.)

2. Take your grain bucket with one handful of grain only (this is one-half cup; just a taste) along with a stiff lounge whip into the paddock.

3. This is very important and is your first test: If she charges/pushes you, use the lounge whip to drive her off. You should be very assertive/aggressive, and may strike her anywhere except the head (and you will not injure her). If she charges you, you must fend her off with the whip (or throw the bucket at her and hit her).

4. Put the bucket of grain down in the center of the paddock, and do not let her approach it.

5. Pick a direction (i.e., clockwise or counterclockwise) and use the lounge whip to drive the mare around the circumference of the paddock in your selected direction. Keep her moving at a trot, out on the perimeter, and do not let her stop. (You are in effect controlling her movements, which makes you dominant.) If she canters/gallops, reduce your movements to allow her to transition down to a trot.

6. If she changes direction on her own, immediately chase her back the original direction. Do not allow her to change directions on her own; she may only change directions when you cue her to change directions by chasing her back the other way. (You are again controlling the direction of her movements, which makes you dominant.)

7. After she ceases to try to stop or change directions on her own, turn her back the other direction and cause her to trot that direction. (The same rules apply: no changes on her own decision.)

8. When she is responding to your cues and not attempting to stop or change directions on her own for at least two revolutions around the paddock, stop chasing her, and allow her to stop, but do not allow her to approach the grain bucket. (You are again controlling her movements, which makes you dominant.)

9. When you do allow her to stop, you stand next to the bucket and just keep her in one general area away from the bucket of grain. (For example, keep her in one end of the paddock.) Do not allow her to wander where she wants to wander. (You are in effect, dominating her access to food, and containing her in one area, which makes you dominate.)

10. Continue to keep her in the one area until her respiration (cardiovascular system) returns to normal. (This may take up to thirty minutes with a stabled horse.)

11. When her respiration is back to normal, turn around and leave the paddock, and allow her to have the grain.

12. Repeat this sequence at least three times; but not within one hour of eating. If you are effective at controllng her with the steps listed above, she will behave herself within three repetitions of this exercise.

After three repetitions, your mare should no longer behave aggressively in the grain context; and should wait patiently for you to allow her access to the grain.

Safety note: If you find that the mare is running so much in steps 5-8 above, that she is profusely sweating or getting winded, then cease the exercise, pick up the bucket and leave the paddock. This may occur after as little as five minutes of trotting/cantering for stabled horses, and is an indication of the lack of respect on the part of the mare (she'd rather run than obey you). Do not continue until the mare's cardiovascular system has recovered (about thirty minutes, or perhaps a little longer), and then start again. But do not ever let her have any grain when her cardiovascular system is working hard (i.e., she's hot, sweaty, and breathing hard); only allow her to grain when her body is cooled, calmed and relaxed AND she is obeying your movement commands.

This exercise places you as the dominant animal and in charge of who does what and when (rather than the mare), just like the dominant horse in a herd, so anytime she reverts to aggressive behavior, just repeat the exercise.

Best regards,
Harry

[RodeoDreamer33]

Thank You so much!! That sounds great but our paddocks are more like runs for them. Do you think if I did it in her stall and just mad her stand in the back with my lunge whip in my hand that would work. Becasue she is small and it is a box stall so she has plenty of room to stand away from me while I bring her grain in?

~or i could do it in the paddock, would either one be better?

[Harry Hobbes]

Do you think if I did it in her stall and just mad her stand in the back with my lunge whip in my hand that would work. Becasue she is small and it is a box stall so she has plenty of room to stand away from me while I bring her grain in? It can work, but it will take a lot longer, is much more dangerous in tight quarters (the stall), and you will have a very hard time asserting your leadership and training her to respect humans. But it can be done; it's just so much harder in tight quarters.

You see, the procedure I articulated above is nothing more than lounging without a lounge line, which is a safer way to lounge any horse (because you are not tied to the horse); and what you are really doing is training the mare to respect your wishes by becoming the "leader"; and the most effective way to become the leader is to cause the mare to move her body at your command. (This is the basis of leadership in horse herds.)

Personally, I never enter a stall with such a rank horse; I get them into a larger area and then perform the exercise listed above; for my safety and the horse's safety.

Best regards,
Harry

[RodeoDreamer33]

So, would it be OK to do it with her in her paddock even though it's more like a run?

[Harry Hobbes]

The shape (i.e., rectangular) is not critical, but the amount of area is. The horse needs a minimum distance in which to travel around, and I would think that twenty feet or so of width would be absolute minimum. Does the paddock have enough length and width to allow the horse to run around the circumference and remain clear of you in the center?

When you lounge or drive a horse at liberty, such as in the exercise above, you are working the horse in the context of working with its flight zone; that is, you are using its flight instinct to train it. The horse learns that it is continuously moving around yet cannot get away from you; this is why you move it in a circle around you. But it must have enough distance from you so that it is pressured only to the extent that it is pressured to look for a solution to its problem by thinking it through, rather than be panicked. (The problem it must resolve is what to do about you driving it off. The solution you want it to come to is to choose to be subordinate to your commands.) Get too close and you impede the horse's abiity to think things through.

The reason that the horse needs a minimum distance is that prey animals such as horses have what is known as a "flight zone" which in human terms is analogous to your "comfort zone". If you are too close and well within the flight zone the horse may become upset enough to choose to fight, rather than flee (i.e., trot off) and think through its problem. (The best way to get a horse to think through a problem is to have the horse move its feet continuously.)

If you do not have an area large enough to accomodate the horse's flight instinct (i.e., too confined an area), then the horse is under more pressure (you are too close), and has less opportunity to calm down and learn to be subordinate. Some horses panic and fight, rather than move off.

If the paddock is too confining, such as the width of the stall, then I would put the mare in a larger area (fifty by fifty feet is about ideal), and perform the exercise there. You can use a larger area (such as an arena) but you will have to move further and faster to keep the horse traveling.

Best regards,
Harry

[hackedoff]

Ok I'm not disagreeing with anyone but here's what I would do - teach the mare to back up with whatever command you like then ask her to back up from outside the stable with her feed bucket in your hand. Stand squarely look her in the eye and stay out of the 'lunge zone' --when she has made the decision to go to the back of her stable chuck the bucket in over the door and walk away increase this until you can go in and put the bucket down without acknowledging her. Each day ask her for a little more space before you enter with the feed, when you have the space you want touch her on the shoulder as she starts to eat and increase this contact gradually. She should start to realise you are not going to take the feed away, you just want to be with her when she eats.

[NoviceNic]

:p High when I first started to feed my cob he was bolshy, pushy and plowed me over. :eek: I didn't have any luxeries at this time (stable, electric etc). So I thought I will have to sort this problem out now so when then dark nights came I could be safe in the field feeding. I went in with the bucket in one hand and a whip in the other. If he came too close I would tap him on his shoulder and shout back. I would then ask him to wait and when he did if only for 3 secs I gave him his food. I practised this everynight and made him move further into field and wait longer before putting down his bucket. Thankfully he was a quick learner and after a fortnight I could put his bucket down in middle of field and he waited 10 secs for his food. Hope all goes well with everyones advise. Remember your and the horse safety is important. After all if she knocks you over who is going to give her her breakfast. :p

[nakedescapee]

In tighter quarters, if you can get her on a lead line, you can do the same technique Harry describes. I did this with a pushy little morgan horse and it worked well.

With her on a line, make her back up and wait for permission to eat. You have to be super firm with her and correct her every time she makes a move. Then, when she stands quiety for at least 5 to 10 seconds, she may eat.

Remember to keep your adrenaline in check and have no emotion about the horse's actions. Make sure you stay safely out of her strike zone. Good luck.

[lisae]

Until you have the time and space to use Harry's approach, I would recommend divorcing yourself from the action of bringing her the food at all. It makes her perceive you as the lower ranked critter, you are pushing the food to her and backing away, giving in.

Can you bring her in from the field with the grain already doled out in her pan?
Put her into the stall and have nothing to do with the process, and see if that will do until you can sort out the dominance thing.

It helped with my yearling draft cross, I just changed the feeding pattern so that I was bringing her out of the herd and "allowing" her in to eat. Probably not the long term fix but stopped the confrontational stuff until we can get a round pen set up.

[RodeoDreamer33]

Thank You Everyone, she is doing a lot better!!!!

[virtuallyhorses]

I always make a horse back out of my space when presenting them with food. I agree with Harry that trying to take on this horse in its own territory (stall) would be too dangerous (and too likely to backfire).

This does offer you another solution to your problem, provided that you can separate yourself safely from the horse without a full barrier ie a fence or a stall guard that will stop the horse from reaching you but not stop you from placing the bowl in front of the horse. Then all you need is time and patience. With the barrier in place (a good piece of timber across the stall doorway is ideal) walk towards the stall with the bowl (a small helping) of grain and make sure you know where the teeth can reach to. If the horse charges simply stand quietly out of reach and stay there until the horse backs up (you can ask it to back up provided it knows voice commands). Then its a waiting game. If the horse backs and then charges again as you proceed to put the bowl down - quickly back up yourself to your previous position. This can take surprisingly little time as soon as the horse realises that you aren't getting mad or frightened and it is not getting what it wants. You must have a sense of humour and lots of time to spare.

However you decide to tackle this, once you do have the upper hand I would suggest that you keep this by ensuring that the horse is always aware that any food (or indeed anything) you are carrying is 'yours' until such time as you feel like giving it to him\her. Stealing is not tolerated and the bowl (or other item) will only every be offered if the horse politely backs up.

[RodeoDreamer33]

Thank You!
I did a combination of everyone's post and she is doing great!