Do they have to slap her ???/

[LUCY007]

My intructor and his mom (also an instructor) have a tendency to slap their horse if they feel she is misbehaving. Is this really necessary ? I love animals and it upsets me when they slap her.

[vjoy23]

It all depends on what their views of naughty are.

My mare generally is very good but I do have to slap her on the odd occasion, not too hard but hard enough to make her realise that she's being bad. Horses do need telling. If they start to misbehave accidents can happen. An example: when picking my mares feet out she has a tendacy to be a cow and not pick her foot up no matter how much I try. Its usually her near side hind and once or twice has kicked out at me, when she kicks out she gets a smack on the bum. I give her a couple of mins to calm down and then try again and she's fine. People have their own way of doing things. My horse is young and still trying to assert herself with me but all horses will try it on from time to time

[chev]

Depends on the behaviour and the slap to be honest. A horse that threatens aggressively for example might well get a quick slap from me - although I'm actually more likely to just square up to them first. One that kicked me would get a smack back.

It's not usually an effective long-term solution though. If the behaviour that warrants the slap is happening a lot then the answer is not to keep slapping, but to address the problem and solve the behaviour.

Misbehaving is a human concept, not one a horse understands. Horses are not 'bad' - they won't 'realise they're being bad' - they'll just realise that a certain behaviour gets a certain response (like kicking when you pick their feet up gets them a smack). If they're kicking, it's for a reason - either they're uncomfortable with that foot off the floor, or they're worried, or unbalanced, or they don't quite respect the handler enough to comply. The slap response won't address the cause of the kicking, which is why imho it's not an ideal method of dealing with it.

[Tootsie4U]

If you follow John Lyons at all, he has the "three second rule".

According to him, there are only 3 behaviors that call for a slap from the handler. They include BITING, KICKING, and/or STRIKING. These behaviors are well intended aggression against the human and if they go unchecked can be fatal! The rule is though, that the (open handed) slap occur within 3 seconds of the aggression and is not on the head. If 3 seconds go by, the horse's memory will not equate the slap with the aggressive behavior.

The important thing is that the slap cannot be a threat. You must come across like you are declaring all out war on the animal to make it *think* that it is going to die for what it just tried to do to its human. Threats will be interpreted as threats and wont resolve the behavior. Therefore slaps also cannot be used on a whim as you can desensitize the horse to being hit.

[Wally]

You know I'd never anylised it like that, but that's my view, give a wallop if one is given to you.

Misbehaviour in horses is MOST often mis-understanding, becasue we, the rider didn't put the question cvlearly or asked the wrong one without knowing it.

I don't count the proper use of a schooling whip behind the leg, keeping my hand on the reins. A tickle on the bum is far better than over use and booting a horse in the ribs.

If you have asked the right question then 99% of the time a horse will oblige you, pain, discomfort, fear or confusion on the horse's part are some of the reasons you didn't get what you asked for. 99% of the time rider error.

[winterbalto]

If you ever see horses in the field together you will fast realize how little a slap can hurt them. They bite and kick eachother with such force that it makes me cringe; Then they manage to act like nothing happened. Our slaps are nothing but taps compared to what they are used to.

~Nicole

[Silver1]

I think the entire time I've had Mear I've needed to hit her 4 times. That figures to one every six months. The first time was when I first met her, she hadn't been outside her stall for a full month and just would not settle. I ended up giving her a pop on the rump because she kept lungeing herself on the leadrope while I was trying to groom her. It wasn't hard, no more then I would to slap a fly, but she was mortified and stood like a lamb the rest of the time.

Second time she stood on my foot and was totally unaware (she'd like me to believe :p) that my foot was under hers. I don't think that one really counts cause it was more like a shove and a "Get off NOW!" (my foot thought it was an emergency)

Third time was when she was cutting up whilst leading and the final time almost a year ago when she decided for what odd reason I don't know to strike at someone with her forelegs.

Other then those four times I've never had to hit Mear for any reason at all. Mostly because I know that with her anyway, if something has happened, either I didn't explain what was needed clear enough, she was employing horse logic, I made the mistake, or she was physically incapable of doing what I asked.

[dophi_arno]

I rarely slap harashee, although I have on occasions I thought it nessisary (like when he tries to bite me). The funny thing is that his old owner used to slap him quite frequently and in the end he just didnt care. When I slap him now you should see his face. He actually looks sorry, and then will behave without fail... the poor little boy, it makes me feel like a bully!

I believe that slapping is ok when the situation calls for it, as long as it is done in moderation (as chev said) and the less you do it, the more effective it becomes (if that makes any sense).
And in the end we're not slapping to hurt the horse, or because we hate them, we're slapping so that the behaviour that causes it can be stopped.

[galadriel]

A slap from a person doesn't have much force compared to what horses may do to each other--even in play (as winterbalto described). What has an effect, though, is the person's approval or lack thereof. Most horses would like to behave, if they understand what is being asked of them. Disapproval, in the form of scolding or a slap, may have a lot of emotional impact on a horse.

If you only do it rarely, it will mean a lot more to the horse. Constant disapproval will make the horse accustomed to it, such that it doesn't have much impact. Occasional strong disapproval--with lots of encouragement and *approval* in between--will help the horse try to do right.

[Wally]

Ditto Galadriel

You can put the fear of God into a horse and damage his mind without laying a finger on him. Slapping is not the real issue.

Icelandics HATE being shouted at. So do driven Shetlands. If you were to wallop Andy he'd become very nervous, he's generally a very willing pony.....we do have an unorthodox sense of humour, but I love this with a horse as it shows he is confident and happy in his mind to push the envelope with us. Horses who either blindy conform or go the opposite way and resist make me wonder. :( :(

[lindz]

Hitting a horse might seem mean, but what you must remember is that a horse is easily capable of severely injuring a human if it feels that it can get away with misbehaving/being agressive.

Discipline is often needed to establish a mutual respect between horse and rider.

There is a very fine line between a short sharp slap and needless cruelty.

Example: A youngster decided to bite me on the head while I was doing up her rug. I immediatly slapped her on the shoulder and shouted. She never bit me again. I hope I nipped that in the bud. I know someone with a finger missing where a mature horse had bitten it clean off.

[Tootsie4U]

I love this with a horse as it shows he is confident and happy in his mind to push the envelope with us.

Thats a definate! :D That made me smile.

[Yann]

I'd not heard the John Lyons thing before, but it's something I'd go along with too, and the fact that if you rarely if ever hit your horse, then the time you do will make a very big impression. I've had this with Rio, she once used her teeth on me whilst being girthed up and I slapped her face before I had time to think about it. I felt absolutely awful about it, but she's never done it again. I don't think hitting should have any place in your relationship with your horse other than in extreme situations when personal safety is at stake.

Constantly slapping a horse for every misdemeanor won't just desensitize the horse to the punishment but it'll make it resentful and unhappy to be round people. There are far more effective ways of dealing with a 'naughty' horse using leading techniques and body language which won't only correct it but will show it what it should be doing for a quiet life. Horses will usually opt for what is easier given the chance. The fact that these horses are being hit all the time suggests it isn't doing any good. Your gut instinct is right, it's wrong and there are better ways of getting along.

[Tootsie4U]

Constantly slapping a horse for every misdemeanor won't just desensitize the horse to the punishment but it'll make it resentful and unhappy to be round people.

Believe it or not, but it can also make horses seek it out. Negative attention.

[NoviceNic]

When I used to ride at a riding school the horse would always rub up against you when you took his tack off. I always used to growl at him and say NO. One week I had the "Hard Instructor". Whilst she was untacking the horse he rubbed against her she shouted at him and then she got the bridle in her hand. Swung it behind her and above his head and cracked him in the middle of his eyes with the bit. :eek: I heard the metal hit his skull.

Absolutley outrageous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No horse deserves that. :mad:

[LUCY007]

NoviceNic that is appalling !!!!! People who hurt animals like that deserve to be tortured. There is nothing that an animal can possibly do to deserve treatment like that.

[Wally]

I'm afraid there is, sad to say, those horses are very, very rare but they are out there.

I met one I had to use a broom handle in self defence he was so aggressive and dangerous. He would attack and really try and hurt you. He put several folk in hospital. In the end I was the only one fool enough to try to handle him. We came to an armed truce........he died suddenly of a brain tumour......which explained a great deal. I still feel bad that he was not diagnosed and we could have put an end to his suffering sooner.

In general though horses do not respond well to violence. As I said if you want to make it clear to them they have done wrong or gone too far you need never hit them a growl and a strong dose of body language is usually enough.

[JOJOBA]

I have hardly ever had to hit my horse. As he's been headshy a raised hand has the same effect on him as a slap. All I have to do with him is raise a finger and he stops whatever he's doing. I dont know why he's so frightened of my finger - but he is. A raised finger frightens him more than a slap does.

On the other hand, without coming across as mean and cruel, I have punched a horse before. :( Chewitmonster's old horse (big chunky suffolk punch x haflinger) got hold of my little finger and wouldnt let go. He bit into each side quite deep and twisted his head and broke my finger. I couldnt pull it out or prise his mouth open so I hit him in the throat, which surprised him into letting go. I doubt he even really felt it, especially through that huge neck - but it worked.

I have no problem with people giving horses a slap if it's deserved - for instance if the behaviour is dangerous to you or them. Horses are much bigger and stronger than us and even the hardest slap you could give wouldnt be as hard as a kick from another horse in the field. The only thing I do hate is use of 'implements' to punish horses. ie yanking the bit, or whipping (I carry a whip to ride, for reinforcement of aids, I mean whipping from the ground as punishment). That gives us an unfair advantage in my eyes.

As a scenario, if my horse was being an idiot on the road - Id much sooner wallop him on the shoulder with a crop to get him out of the road, than have him be hit by a car.

But it has to be in the correct situation - it's definitely not fair to hit a horse simply for not getting out of your way fast enough, or not opening it's mouth for the bit, etc. Or if it's frightened - hitting a horse that is being clipped or hosed or whatever and if afraid is not on. That just creates a frightened, unhappy horse.

Well that became quite long... just thought Id give you my thoughts...

Edit: as an afterthought... I do know some horses that have never been disiplined in their lives (physically). They rear in people's faces and try to box them, kick at people etc. They definitely know they are the ones in charge. I cant help thinking that these are good situations for a slap. I also think, however, that if you slap a horse that has never been disiplined before, there may be the worrying side effect of it fighting back... so early handling must be pretty crucial for the outcome of a horse and it's attitude towards people.

I suppose it's like dogs... I have smacked my dog before, because she bit me. I never hit her first. But dogs are pack animals and need to know their place in the pack (my dog has decided that her place is below my parents, but still above me :p). As herd animals horses need to know their place too - and I think that they should see that as being below you, simply for safety reasons.
Hector is bottom of the herd heirarchy. All the other horses chase him and bite him. He's very amiable and likes being around other horses, and knows Im in charge. My mum's horse is top of the hierarchy (or was, he's getting on a bit now). He simply 'tolerates' us :p. He's very independant, and often kicks out at us, or at the wall. 9 years of slapping him when he kicks at us hasnt made any difference at all. He's quite cantankerous and much more suspicious of us than Hector (with no good reason). Hector sees his place as below us. King sees his place as more equal. Perhaps that's just the way it is - you can hit horses as much or as little as you like, but what you really need to do is explain to them that they arent, in fact, in charge...
xxx

[NoviceNic]

Wally - I agree if a you are in real danger then use whatever at hand to enable a safe exit. In this instance though the horse didn't deserve what he got. A sharp no would of done the trick. She was a very scary person. :eek:

[hApPiNeSs]

and even if he did deserve it she shouldnt of hit him in the FACE with the BIT

she'll be wondering next time why the poor thing is terrifyed of the bridle! :(

[roxycutie]

Some horses are more sensitive than others, so be careful. Also remember that horse won't know what you are punishing for because they don't have a very accurate short term memory. Eventually your horse will be afraid of you every time you put a hand up near her, so be careful when it come to hitting. ;) Hope I helped.

[stevielee]

we used to have a chestnut mare on our yard and she was the grumpiest thing ever if you walked to the stable she would try and bite you. She used to get a LOT of smaks of the instructer. They thought it was her just being a typical chesnut mare with four white socks. Also on hacks she was terrible. Then a few months ago they had a vet check and found out she was completley blind in 1 eye and partially in the other i felt soooo guilty and so did every one else but we all now no it couldnt be helped because we all didnt now she got put to sleep
***** R.I.P Sally********

[Colorado Sunset]

hmmm... just seen this thread. I was always taught to give the pony a slap on the face if it tried to bite you. It became second nature to me and as soon as i saw a head coming towards me with open teeth, up my hand would come to give the horse a sharp slap.

But now i realise that the cause of bitting is usually fear, or as many people have already pointed out, pain (the brain tumor, the blindness). If a horse tries to bite me (unless truely dangerous, in which case i will not put myself in the situation of it having the chance to bite me), i will move away and stand square, threateningly to the horse. As soon as it moves away, i round my shoulders, and appear friendly to the horse. This ensures that the most comfortable thing for the horse to do is not to bite, and not through fear of pain, just out of respect and understanding.

Jo

[Stella2]

we used to have a chestnut mare on our yard and she was the grumpiest thing ever if you walked to the stable she would try and bite you. She used to get a LOT of smaks of the instructer. They thought it was her just being a typical chesnut mare with four white socks. Also on hacks she was terrible. Then a few months ago they had a vet check and found out she was completley blind in 1 eye and partially in the other i felt soooo guilty and so did every one else but we all now no it couldnt be helped because we all didnt now she got put to sleep
***** R.I.P Sally********

Thats so sad :(

[stevielee]

i no i was gutted she was gorgeous looking just not a good ride. il post a picture when i find. She would go on 2 hour rides through the woods and up the road a bet she was soo scared poor babe. but it was for the best :o

[Kerry Claire]

I'm afraid to say my share horse often gets a slap because I have tried every method I can think of to discipline him but nothing works. He is extremely bolshy and can be very dangerous at times which I think is due to a lack of handling when he was a foal.

He bites a lot although has improved loads in the 6months I have been sharing him. When he bites I usually push his head away but sometimes he persists or really snaps at me which is when his gets a slap on the neck or a slightly less forceful one on the side of his muzzle.

Or when I pick his feet out he gets a slap on his shoulder if he tears his foot away from me several times in succession.

Having said this I don't slap him every 5 minutes - only when it's needed. I generally try to use the "ignore when bad and praise when good" approach but in some cases I believe ignoring is not appropriate - he has to know if something is totally unacceptable. The only time he gets a really hard slap that would hurt him rather than discipline him is if he kicks out at me or tries to throw me off for no good reason - 2/3 times since I started sharing him.

[Roseanne]

It is never acceptable to hit a horse in my view, particularly anywhere on the face, where it could do some real damage. I know that some people would disapprove, but I always speak quietly to my horse, reward with a stroke when she does what I want, and raise my voice if she misbehaves, not when she doesn't understand something I have asked her to do. She is usually so shocked, she stops immediately. I think it's also always wise to initially check that there is no pain anywhere that could be making a horse misbehave. How else can they let you know they are hurting?

We all have to learn lessons though, and sometimes we do feel guilty about the mistakes we make, but that's what makes us human. We move on, and try not to make the same mistakes again.

Regards

Roseanne

[Stella2]

It is never acceptable to hit a horse in my view, particularly anywhere on the face, where it could do some real damage. I know that some people would disapprove, but I always speak quietly to my horse, reward with a stroke when she does what I want, and raise my voice if she misbehaves, not when she doesn't understand something I have asked her to do. She is usually so shocked, she stops immediately. I think it's also always wise to initially check that there is no pain anywhere that could be making a horse misbehave. How else can they let you know they are hurting?

We all have to learn lessons though, and sometimes we do feel guilty about the mistakes we make, but that's what makes us human. We move on, and try not to make the same mistakes again.

Regards

Roseanne

I also take pretty much take that approach with my own horse. I would never hit her. she respects me and its simply not necassary. Assertive body language with squared shoulders and a stern voice is enough if ever she forgets her manners , but I know this may not always do the trick with a very dominant horse. Consequently, I doubt it would generally be necassary to hit a horse, especially on the head or face, but I would not say Never because each horse and situation is unique. Certainly, if a horse tried to kick me I probably would hit it (though not on the head). Bare in mind that another horse would also respond that way!

[fatbess]

If you let your horse get away with things, even if they are little thing like nipping to ask for a treat, they will start doing bigger things and then you have an animal thats un-controllable. With my rescue pony I have had to train her and at first because she was so scary I let her get away with things. Then I took her to a yard and they told me that she was naughty and so now if she tries to bite me or something I smack her on the nose, not hard, to let her know she has been bad and now I'm in control! :p

[Sam and Blake]

can anyone give me advice on my horses manners?i hope this isn't o/t but when i walk him down the lane in his headcollar and lead rope he always pull sme onto the grass and starts munching i just pull him back up and start walking again.yeaterday i really lost my temper with him because he was doing it all down the lane and i am too strong to stop him before he gets to the grass and he nearly pull dmy arm ot of its socket so i walloped him on the neck with the lead rope.he must of really annoyed me because i never hit him, but he just crossed the line.the thing is it didnt make any difference so i didnt bother again i just kept pulling him up.please help me i dnt liek hurting my horsey :(

[notpoodle]

my pony went through a spell of such 'grass bombing' as well. i ended up leading her with a very short rope (note: i mean normal rope but held quite close to her headcollar) and made her look away from the grass. worked fine. i think she longer the rope is the more leverage they will have ...

julia
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