Turn out Conditions - Again need advice from members w/ horses at home

[Tootsie4U]

Currently, we have about 3-4 acres available for immediate turnout. One of the fields was planted with clover (previous owner grew it for the wild deer). There's alot of clover in there! How should I expect this to affect Bonfire?

Also, The 3-4 acres have only about five trees in them and they're in a cluster. Last year, lightning struck that field. How do I protect the horses from lightning and do your horses seem to care much about storms - do you lock them up when you know a thunder storm's approaching?

Last Question: The remaining 8-9 acres of our property is wooded. How would horses cope living in a forested paddock? Of course, grazing would be limited, but I'd supplement with hay and rotating to the fields. Would all underbrush have to be cut down?

[lisae]

Clover is too rich for one horse on three acres! You're gonna hate this advice, but you may need to spray it dead with RoundUp and start fresh with a horse pasture seed mix. Some clover is OK, our field had about 20% and none of them foundered. If you don't like the spray idea you could have it plowed... you could talk to your Extension agent, they would probably come out for free and give you ideas.

Pasturing in woods should be no problem as horses don't browse high, generally, but at the same time be sure there are no black walnut trees or red maple as they are poisonous to horses. If you cut out the underbrush, don't have sharp stumps remaining, you may want to just hire a bulldozer to clear it out and get the roots. KarinUs just put her horses in woods, I think, maybe she can shed some light.

My lot all stay out in lighting storms by choice! They put their butts to the wind and hang their heads and wait it out. As fas as I know there is nothing to do about lightning but hope for the best. You can lock him in the barn if you are home and see the storm approach but if you at work it isn't worth running home... they instinctively know what to do I think. Mine avoid the tree line and high ground on their own.

[Mehitabel]

clover is more nutritious than grass, so he may get fat, or get the runs. if it was white clover it can also cause phantom pregnancies, so not sure what effect it would have on male hormones. it never affected any of the geldings we had on it, one mare out of about 10 in the field had a phantom.

not much you can do about lightning, i'm afraid. some people stable the horses in a thunderstorm, others prefer them out if that's their usual routine no the grounds that if they are likely to be scared, better they can run, and not trash the stable or injure themselves if they panic.

how much of the woods would you give them access to at once? a few of our fields have wooded areas, the horses use them for shelter from sun and rain. the ground is clear-ish. it might be handy to have a largeish wooded paddock for when you want to rstrict grazing in the summer, as the ground will be naturally bare so no need to worry about stressed grass. we have some completely wooded paddocks we use for this purpose. you can see a pic of copper in one here - http://groups.msn.com/horsewebbers/hannahspiccies.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2021 to see the kind of thing i mean.

[AliC]

Hi, I was recently taught by my instructor that the pasture should contain less than 5% clover as it is very nitrogen rich. This provides increased protein which is very energy-giving. But I don't know what the solution is if you have too much clover in your field - sorry.

My horse lives out and half of her field is wooded. She enjoys roaming around in there and also enjoys eating the variety of other vegetation (non-poisonous). It also provides great shelter.

Hope that helps in some way.

Ali

[KarinUS]

I don't think I will be much help here since out vegetation is so different!
But yes we have lots of trees. Clearing enough brush to be able to grow grass was a major undertaking.
Because heat and sun are great dangers to my horse I actually am very happy I have so many trees. To always give the grass a break I have divided my property into sections (rotational grazing). Each section has some open grass area and some treed areas. When you do have trees removed just be sure you get the roots as well so nobody trips!
I did have to battle the Lantana (very pretty but poisonous to horses).
I don't lock them up other than for feeding times. They go where they want to go and luckily my place is so varied where they can find lots of different types of shelter. And they can always go in their stalls if tehy want to or just stand in the breezeway.
Again for me heat is more of a problem than storms...
Now the clover: I would be worried about that. That could be a problem. Can you fence it off safely until you can redo that area?

[Tootsie4U]

I was worried about the clover. Bonfire does NOT do well on alot of protein.

We could probably get another 4 acres or so of pasture from the wooded area. There's a high point, but all the rest of it is wet. We've already cut down the red maples in the back of the field, so we can continue with that inside the forested area too. But, the forest area is even denser than your pic Es. Since it was logged, there is a fair amount of underbrush. Is it fair to say that the horses will take care of that on their own (trampling/eating) or will it have to be removed by machinery?

Bon spent his first three years out 24/7 so I think he'll be fine in a thunder storm. I can envision a stampede though and him jumping the fence. :S

[KarinUS]

I don't know what kind of underbrush you have. We got some mesquite and that's no fun. It's great that you are getting started on this now (before you get too pregnant) because this will be a whole lot of hard work... i.e. manual labor. :D
I wish I had taken more before and after pics of our place. You couldn't see if we had 5 acres or 500 back there. Now the brush is gone and most limbs are trimmed high enough for a horse to go under. We can actually see teh end of the field now!

[Tootsie4U]

Multi flora rose (Pricker bushes! ) mostly with saplings. When I get home tonight, I'll take a pic so you all can tell me if its a hopeless cause or not :)

The clover field is the predominant grazing area - its the largest cleared area we have :(

[KarinUS]

Don't be too upset about the clover. When people think grazing they always think of teh big square fields with nothing but grass but I think horses actually enjoy the variety in wooded grass areas. You don't have to use the clover area. I am sure he will be fine in the treed area.

[floppy]

our horses live on 5 acres, they are turned out so to say all year round in all conditions...except in spring when the rich grass comes then they are bought into a ''mud'' paddock and turned out for limited time.

They basically come and go as they please.

They have a large stable (for 5 horses) only thing missing are the stable doors and separating walls :D and they can walk from their stable straight out into the mud paddock and then out to one of the 5 adjacent fields (whichever door is open for them) WE have trees in all except one of our fields. Lightening has struck the house 2x (i dont live there, my friend does and she has my horse in her garden) I do believe that when there is a Storm then the horses stand in their house and only go out quickly to poo. The house also has one of those lightening rods as its the highest thing in the area.

Where i work there i one field that is pretty much woodland, they chopped down a small patch off trees in the middle and planted fruit trees and the horses spend most of their time in there....very nice place.

[lisae]

Clearing brush by hand can be fun - we cleared a trail for hiking through our woods, but for the larger areas, the equipment can be hired for about $70/hr. and is well worth it!

[Tootsie4U]

Ok, here is a view from the back of the house - looking into the potential area for the wooded paddock:

[Tootsie4U]

(Sorry, was dusk when I got home so its a little dark but still representative)

Here is *inside* the wooded area. The open-ish area where the dog is is a logging trail. So, the horses have open-ish space to roam in but only on the trails.

[Tootsie4U]

And this is the thick of the brush. This is about as bad as it gets. Keep in mind this is the dead of winter and its even fuller in other months.

[Tootsie4U]

And last, this is the clover field. Much more open and much easier to facilitate for horses than the wooded area...

So, whatdya think my options are?

[jUmPingIsLifE]

The clover should be fine, but as others said it is VERY rich so he may get fat. make sure he gets acclimated though just putting him out on really rich stuff can cause colic. every spring our horses get acclimated slowly to the green grass.

and for the wooded lot thats actually great, it provides a nice natural shelter for your horse. we never did away with any under brush, the horses explore through the woods and it provides them with entertainment however ours wasn't bad.
if you have a lot and you are worried about them tripping through it then clear some of it out.

[KarinUS]

Your lot doesn't look that bad too me!
I love the pics. It's like Woody, the dog is giving a tour... and here is where I saw the squirrel...
It will be very, very nice :)

[TWH Addict]

Is it white clover you are talking about?

If so, this article may help:
http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_alsike_clover.htm#white

[Nicole5310]

Cant you get some electric tape and strip graze if its too much for him? Its what we do with all our horses and its an easy solution. Getting the initial materials costs a bit but its cheaper and more versatile that buiding fences.

[floppy]

i wouldnt worry too much - apart from the clover. the land looks great Our ponies are acutally kept amused with our bushes and trees in our fields. Nothing is posionous for them or dangerous in large quanitities and they spent hours munching here and there and wlkaing around investigating

[Mehitabel]

does the wooded part go directly onto the clover field - could you strip it into bits so you have a few paddocks of half woods and half clover? or would it be one clear clover field and one wooded bit? a mixture would be ideal, so there's grazing space and shelter.

is the clover field completely clover, or is it mixed with grass? how feasible is it to get it ploughed and re-seeded this spring - when are you considering bringing bon home?

i think i'd like to clear some of the wooded bits so there's space for them to get in among the trees for shelter.

[tasha]

Sorry I have only skimmed replies, so apologies of Im being repetitive.

Mine live out on 70 acres of woodland, clearings, bogs and ferns. They aboslutely love it. They eat bark, herbs and plants as well as grass, they wade deep into the bogs (belly high sometimes :eek: ) for the marsh grasses they keep themselves pretty fit walking around and galloping every now and again.

Yes nutritonal value gets really low in winter - they come in at night for a big haynet to make up for it. But if we were allowed to hay out there, we would and they could live out all year round.

I think your horses will be fine in the wooded bits. We take the ragwort out and nothing else (well, acorns as the YO got a bit anal about them last year) and the horses pick and choose what they want to eat. So far, no posioning cases and horses have been on there for over 20 years. I think as long as you supplement with hay you will be fine.

[Tootsie4U]

Is it white clover you are talking about?

Hmmm... Im not sure which it is. I've bookmarked the website though so I can identify our clover in the spring. Thanks so much for the article.

Es, there is a teensy tiny drainage stream that goes between the clover field and the wooded parts. Through the seemingly endless permitting process, one of the biggest things they had to say was that this stream couldnt be affected by the horses. So, nope, can't connect the two. We have to build a bridge over the stream if we do fence in the wooded part so as to not mess with it. I'd say the clover field is at least 50:50 if not more. I'll do what Lisae said and probably get one of our County Ag representatives in to help me.

Thanks guy. It makes me feel better that horses can do well in wooded pastures. :)