Crow hopping

[chris_cowboy]

Hi! I am new to this site. On another site (BHS) they recommended I come here 'cause Outrider might be able to give me some great advice. I have a 3 yr old QH mare I bought in January. I want to do calf roping and she was well broke and started on cows when I got her. She moved off leg pressure and cantered, side pass, slide stop, etc. About two weeks after I got her, she started doing crow hops when I canter (puts her head down and kicks her back feet out). Funny thing is that she doesn't do it if I am cantering with other riders. I currently ride with a Billy Cook saddle, but she does it with other saddles too. Everyone around here says that she is just testing mr or playing around because she is so young. So, I have just been trying to correct her by giving her head a quick little jerk up, making the buzzer sound "Ahhhh", and kicking her through it. But I have been doing this since February and she isn't really responding. Just an additional note, she came into season about the same time all this started and I am only 13 years old (the reason everyone says she's testing me) but I have been riding for 3 years and I weigh 160 lbs. The vet and farrier have checked her out and I have had her saddle checked. I just don't want to hurt her and it doesn't seem right to me that she would test me this long especially since I don't let her get away with it. Is this normal for 3 year olds and she will outgrow it? Should I stop cantering her? Is there a better way to correct her? Are there other ways to test to find out what is making her do this? I know this is kinda long, but I wanted to give as much detail as possible. Any advice anyone can give will be really appreciated. P.S. I live in the USA.

[Outrider]

Hi Chris. So someone is throwing my name around hmmm? Where are you? I am in Texas. I have ridden just about every age of horse there is. Is your mare crow hopping when you swing a rope or just when you are cantering in general without a rope? Has she ever been roped off of? How was she "started" on cattle? Does she do it in a round pen on or off a line? Have you spun a rope off of her yet and how does she react?

If you've had her back vet checked and the saddle checked for proper fit, then it is her. Now, she may be testing you, but it isn't because you are only 13. It may be because she is 3, but then, I have a 19 year old Appendix that I have had for 10 years and he still tests me at times! But that is his personality! I take it you are riding the bucks out ok. I wouldn't spur her through them as this will make her buck more. Its time to go to school with this gal. Here are a couple of suggestions.

You could try lunging her for a while before you ride, to wear some of the fire out, though this won't really do much.

Do you know how to do "Join Up"? Send her out in a round pen off the lunge line, tacked up and into a canter. Don't let her stop. Keep her going and now and then make her stop and change directions. Watch her ears and lips. When her lips start quivering or she starts licking them, and/or her ears start flicking towards you, ease her down to a walk and make her come in to you. If she stops and doesn't come in, send her out cantering again for a while. If she stops but turns her rear to you instead of coming in to you, send her out again. You want her to know that the required response is to come in to you or she gets to run.

Next, go to the arena and work on the canter. The first time she starts her crow hopping, take her back to the round pen and do the exercise again. When she joins up with you, take her back to the arena and work again. If she bucks again, its back to the round pen, or you could just put a line on her and lunge her in the arena and get the same effect. In time, she will learn that bucking gets her a running exercise.

Here is another thing I do with a "sometimes" bucker. As soon as she bucks, jump off immediately, get to the front, grab the reins in both hands and holler, "BACK" real aggressivly and back her up about 20 feet. Then, get on and ride. If she bucks again, do it again. Most horses don't care to back up, and this has worked with a few for me.

By all means, I believe this behavior is a matter of her age and not yours. You need to nip it in the bud or she will keep it forever just like my gelding does. At her age, she should be able to break the habit. Habits in horses in my experience can either be established or broken in about 21 days of consistent, solid work. Don't be impatient. This may take a while to get her over, but she will get over it. In the meantime, take a deep seat and a far away look, screw your hat down tight, nod the chute...and RIDE cowboy! Happy Trails!

[horselover]

Ok, I don't know if this helps or not, but I have been having the same type of experience with the horse I ride for lessons. Except that Rascal bucks, not just crowhops! He did it again when we went to a show on Sunday.

My trainer is having me roundpen him beofre lessons now for about half and hour. I am going to do the join up that Outrider mentioned and see if it helps. We have also changed his bit for when I jump him- you might want to consider that.

I know thta with Rascal, it's just out of pure energy and silliness that he bucks. I understand how he feels, and I am trying really hard to keep that understanding, even when he dumps me! He's still young- just turned 6- and sometimes, it's just a matter of time.

Instead of riding her through teh bucks, stop and try again. Pull her up and say "ahhh" (you know, that's what I say too, and I have never found anyone else who does that until now :)). Then ask her for the canter again. Don't let her buck into it b/c then she might be thinking that it's ok to do that. I also like circles for punishment. And old reining trainer of mine taught us to use samll circles as a punshment for the horse- kinda like Outrider's backing method. I prefer ciircles b/c i hate getting on and off!

[horselover]

Welcome to New Rider- I hope you stick around! We need some more western riders here!

[Outrider]

Horselover's right about doing the circles. You might try that instead of the backing up exercise I told you. And the bit. I hadn't thought of that, though I should have. That could be a problem. What kind of bit are you using? Have you tried using a hackamore at all? Don't jerk her head or you might get a hard mouthed horse in the end. Also, as Horselover said, don't ride the buck out. Stop it and do whatever punishment method works best on her...either the backing, circles or round pen, or a combination of these. And stick around. We are going to start a complete western riding page with articles next month at this web site.
Happy Trails!

[horselover]

I know that this isn't really an answer to your question, but anyway...

I had my lesson tonight, and after the way Rascal has been acting- bucking and dropping his head after fences- my instructor worked out some new ideas. I roundpenned him for half an hour and did a little join up stuff to get him to see me as the "herd leader" again. By the end of the time, he was turning in to me and licking his lips and following me around the round pen. So far so good. I am now going to roundpen him before every lesson and show.

When roundpenning, I noticed that he only bucked when I asked him to canter if he wasn't balanced going into it. So, when I rode him in my lesson, I made sure to balance him up carefully before asking for a canter. He did try to buck in the corners, but as soon as I balanced him, he was fine. I say this b/c you might want to roundpen your horse so that you can see how she moves. I never would have thought about balancing Rascal more if I hadn't noticed it when roundpenning him.

We also switched to a pelham bit (Heather would be proud :)) that I used to use on him and also double reins (GRR- I HATE double reins when jumping- they are so aggravating, but they worked). When ever he dropped his head after the fence, I pulled up on his head and he actually brought it up! The bit really helped. The twisted snaffle just isn't strong enough when jumping him, but we will continue to use it on the flat.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you this first, b/c I hope it helps in some way, and, second, b/c I am really excited about having a good lesson! Rascal has been managing to dump me regularly for the past 2 months, and it was starting to really hurt! My body couldn't take much more! I can handle a couple bucks, but he was bucking after every jump 2 and 3 times!

So, try roundpenning- you might see something you don't notice on her back.