Please Help!

[Top Banana]

I posted last week about schooling ideas, you had some really good suggestions, but I need your help again! Basically I'm loaning a 25 yr old horse, she is very responsive and will change direstion etc just by you moving your weight, BUT she won't keep in walk, she tries to jog everywhere, and if she does not get her own way she has started to buck and shy with me. The first time I rode she cantered with me and wouldn't stop, I could control her on circles etc, but she had no breaks, I have now invested in a martingale as somone sugessted she may be carrying her head to high. The bottom line is, I am worried to trot or canter with her incase I cant stop her again. Apparently she is a very nervous horse, and she has had the same owner for most of her life. (Mostly she hacks out rather than using the menage to school her) But with her being like this, I do not feel confident going on a hack with her at present. Any suggestions? Is it me or she just being mareish?

[vjoy23]

Tough one!

What kind of bit is she being ridden in?? and does she wear a flash??

The only things I can suggest is to make sure you don't let her head drop!!! If she can't get her head down she can't buck. When she starts to jog pull with one rein (hard enough to make her think) and really make sure she knows that she's not going to get away with what she's doing. Don't be affraid to pull on her mouth coz at the end of the day whats worse, you getting seriously hurt (possibly) and totally losing your confidence or her have a bit of a sore mouth for a day or so. I'm used to a young horse and not all that experienced with older horses. A martingale stops her from tossing her head not bucking as I've learnt in the past in my less experienced days.

[Kerry Claire]

I'm not very good with fast horses I'm afraid - I seem to have an "electric seat", lol. But if I were you I'd try lots of circling so it's harder for her to go faster, especially 10m circles etc. Hopefully that will get her used to walking and she won't feel the need to trot if you gradually make the circle bigger.

Or how about making her stop and rein back every time she moves up out of walk without you asking?

Also is she any better to lead? If so you could do some inhand work at walk with her in the school.

I'm not really sure what you can do about the bucking but would a daisy rein stop her from getting her head down and therefore limit the size of the bucks?

Other than that all I can think of is lots of transitions between halt, walk and trot.

Good luck! :)

[Top Banana]

her bit is a snaffle, and she has a drop. The owner once used double reins but said she never actually used them, they were there as a just in case. I will keep doing different transitions, she is usually fine at halt, and I do halt if she tries it on, but sometimes this seems to wind her up more??? Thanks for your suggestions! :)

[vjoy23]

If she's good in the school leave her with a snaffle on but if she has no break maybe try her with a pelham or something. I know I would never hack a horse out if I felt it had no breaks. Try various bits plus the other stuff, it might work. Good luck

[Top Banana]

Forgot to mention, she has been ok to lead, apart from one day where she kept pushing me to one side, and I kept having to circle her back to go staight again, this may have been down to it being tea time though? :D

[eventerbabe]

you say she's 25? i had an 18/20 yr old pony when i was in PC and he was the most cantancerous old g*t i've ever met. he had the attitude that he was old, so could do exactly what he pleased. he used to jog, buck, bite and dump me when jumping. they way i sorted him out was to develop a good relationship with him on the ground. when he realised i was there to stay (i had him for 4 years, before that he had been moved around a bit) he came round and would do anything to me. if the horse has just had one owner then maybe she's taking the p*ss a bit. i know my horse won't tolerate other people riding him.

i don't think a pelham is the answer. is the drop noseband fitted correctly?

[Top Banana]

I think so, Although I will double check when I go down, is it usually about 2 fingers higher than the boney bit in the nose? slightly higher than a cavesson. I didnt fit it so it might be worth checking. Perhaps you are right, perhaps she is old and set in her ways!

[jUmPingIsLifE]

Bucking and carrying the head high are both signs of pain. are you sure the saddle fits her correctly? maybe she doesn't like the bit in her mouth, is it to harsh? or maybe her teeth are soar? her running could be running from something painful. i would really get all that checked before anything.

[H & Bailey]

She is maybe used to getting her own way and dashing around the place.I would try and sit her out.Take her in the school and vocally tell her to walk if she jogs just try and sit calmly and talk to her, dont be tempted to pull as she will just start fighting you and in the end she is stronger and bigger so will win.go round and round doing lots of circles and changes of rein so she has to listen to you and she will walk eventually.When she knows she isnt going to do jumping or gallop round she will eventually chill,it may take some work.I would definately have a feel in her mouth to see if her teeth are bothering her.If not and you are allowed to change her tack take the drop nose band off and try and normal one then if she is still hard to control try a flash.Then start looking at bits. If you can get someone to video you on her thats a good idea as you will be able to see what she is doing.ie if she is opening her mouth or lifting her head up too high.
she sounds very TB type and they can be really highly strung and take a bit to chill out,in her past she may have done alot of jumping so maybe associates the arena with jumping?I do know if i took my last horse in an arena she would be silly too but if tried schooling in the field she was fine.

[Top Banana]

Thanks for that tip, I think the owner may have lunged her in the arena, maybe she assosiates it with that. I don't think she has been schooled that much, although the owner took a summer out I think in 2003 and rode every day and did do jumping in this time, she did say that she wasnt a very confident jumper, and that resulted in her not being very confident.

[Jessey]

You said she would turn at a shift of your weight so could it be that you are unknowingly telling her to go faster with you weight by accident? and the more you try to stop the more your body tells her to go.
Heres my trail of thought - your enjoying your ride so you relax a bit and may be slouch forward a little and she thinks 'ok, weight forwards - lets go'. Then you get a little worried and tense a little (which is enough to make your legs tighten and the horse to feel it) then she starts to tank off so you try and pull her up, which often causes your weight to come further forward, again telling her to go faster.
This is just a possible sinareo (sp?) and I'm not saying its true, The only reason it occurs to me is because I reacently found myself doing this and I've been riding over 20 years.
Try it out by sitting on a chair in a kind of riding position and tense your body and see how your body will often tip forwards slightly esp if you are also trying to pull on the reins at the same time. You can then try the same on the horse from a stand still and see what her reactions are.......
Just a thought anyway

J

[Top Banana]

Hi Jessey, Yes I do think I have a tendency to lean forward and tense up, this was pointed out to me when I first got on her and she tanked off, so I think I am more aware of it, and when I ride, I try and remind myself to lean back. I try and give her a little rein, relax and hold my hands in a higher position (I was told to do this by the lady who looks after her, I have always been taught hands down), She seems to be ok for a few strides, then start again! :rolleyes:

I guess it could be me tensing though, as after a few times of her bucking and shying, I do start to get quite nervous!

[Kate F.]

Hi!

Lots of good points here about the riding side of it - I agree absolutely. If you tense up it will definitely make things worse and horses are incredibly sensitive - you may well be cueing her unknowingly.

On the horse side of it - even at 25 she can be re-trained. On my website (www.harmony-project.net) there's an article called "Bridling and Bitting" which might help. It's about training (or re-training) to the bit to get the horse really listening to your energy level and relaxing. These exercises will get her listening to you, and help you become more aware of your own energy and what you might be inadvertently communicating to her!

I hope it helps. I think re-training is a safer and more lasting answer than martingales or other gadgets. At the end of the day, these only treat the symptoms and not the cause of the problem.

Good luck!

Kate

[Top Banana]

Hi Kate F, thank you for recommending your website, I will definatley have a good read and apply your suggestions into my schooling. Thanks to everyone with there suggestions too! Let you know how I get on! :)

[chev]

I'd definitely get teeth, back, and saddle fit checked first - older horses do tend to need their teeth looking at more often, and their shape can change a fair bit as the age so even if the saddle was a good fit, say, six months ago, it may very well be causing problems now.

Please don't bang her in the mouth - yes, if you do it often enough she might stop jogging, but the mouth is one of the most sensitive areas on a horse and to deliberately bang her is just unfair. It's also going to make her reluctant to be bridled, reluctant to take up a contact, and undo any schooling she has.

If you have access to the school, try some groundwork with her too, to get her to relax and listen. Slow pole work is also quite helpful - teaches the horse to lower the head (which is actually a good thing - you want her to stretch her head down and relax, since jogging is usually associated with head-up stressy type behaviour) and think about their feet. It shoul dhelp slow her down too.

All this is by the by if there's a physical problem though - so teeth, back and saddle have to be the first thing you do. :)

[Top Banana]

I think she had her teeth done just before I started the loan (about 3-4 weeks ago,) but will check these too! She is quite a tubby horse, and hasn't been worked for a while, so I suppose it could be the saddle to, there are so many things to take into consideration, loaning my first horse has certainly been a big learning curve for me! :)

[Jessey]

Hey Top Banana, When I was getting all stressed out riding I would get really tense and then my boy would go bonkers making it worse.
One way to help you stop this is to sing or humm, I know you may feel a bit silly but it works. By singing (or whatever) you are forced to take nice deep breaths which in turn forces you to relax and then your horse can also relax, choose a song you don't have to think about to much or just sing whats on your mind, it dosen't really matter, oh, and the louded the better :D

J

[Top Banana]

I might try this, but my voice would probably curdle milk!! he he :D

[Kate F.]

Totally agree with Chev! I can't see that pulling on her will help - it's her feet that are jogging, not her mouth - you need to get in touch with the feet! :-) You can't force a horse to relax and listen to you - you have to create the conditions where they want to - and that comes from you, not from any bit or gadget! Speeding up the feet makes an insecure horse feel better - they are in flight mode. You can't stop them with pain or pressure. If you do, you're likely to get bucking, rearing etc. instead. You need to get them to trust you enough that if you say walk is the best pace, walk it is.

Check out any physical causes first - then if there's nothing there, it's down to retraining. You say she's been nervous all her life - it sounds like it could well be a case for building up her confidence by being really quiet yourself, just asking for little bits at a time and remembering to reward even really small tries. On the exercises I suggested on my website - pay particular attention to the part on speeding up and slowing down from your seat and energy. When you want her to slow down, the first signal is for you to breathe out and ride slower.

Good luck and do keep us posted on your progress!

Kate