Weight carrying capacity?

[Em 1]

I'm looking for a horse to have on loan at the moment. I'm not light and I'm not experienced in judging weight carrying ability of horses. I know it is to do with inches of bone but this isn't much use when looking at adverts :) I'd appreciate everyone's opinions on this. If you could just give me an idea this would be good. How much weight would you estimate an Irish sports horse or other middle weight horse, could carry if it was:

*15.3hh
*16.0hh
*16.1hh
*16.2hh

I'd really appreciate experiences or opinions! Thanks :)

[Pink's lady]

A horse carries a precentage of their own body weight. Their confirmation faults decide how much that will be.

A 6th of their body weight is used for RDA , and a 5th is the max. If they have a long back or other porblems, they carry a bit less.

Then of course, you need to add their saddle etc.
So my 15.2hh cob, Pink, weights about 650kg, so she carries about 18st. That includes her saddle. So her rider weight is about 16 1/2st, but only if they're very balanced and gentle. However, I wouldn't put that on her at the moment, as she isn't used to it. She's need to work up to it in short session.

It also has to do with pressure under the saddle. The smaller the surface area, or the heavier the weight, the stronger the pressure point. In the 80's companies where having problems with their floors. The woman worker would come in wearing needle point stilettos. And even at only 10st or whatever, that weight concentrated into that tiny, tiny area was enough to damage the floor.

Obviously, thats an extreme, but the same applies to saddles and weights. So putting 15st in to a 15" saddle ir really unfair on the horse.

So, to try and answer you question, a middle weight sports horse of 16hh would weight about the same as Pink, so probaly carry 16st ish.

The way the RDA asscess their horse is

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v715/Pinkslady/weightcarrying.bmp

There's plenty of horse out there that can carry a decent weight. You'd be best off choosing somethign thats can very easily carry you weight, ratehr than something at it's maximum. the you don't need to worry at all. Good luck in finding something.

[Jessey]

Totally going on non-theory here.

My friend weighs about 21 stone (hes a very big chap, about 6'4") His horse (who unfortunatly had to be PTS for unrelated reasons in 2004 at the age of 18) was a 15.3 quarter horse, they were partners for about 8 years and in that time the horse never had any problems due to his riders weight. My friend is a good, balanced rider and I think this made the difference between the horse being able to carry his weight.

Another friend of mine weighs about 17 stone and rides a 14.2 quarter horse (hes a very stocky little horse), hes been riding him for about 6/7 years with no problems.

Both of these horses are ridden in western saddles so this could have some bearing on this subject.

J

[JOJOBA]

We often dont realise how much horses can carry. I have a 14 stone weight limit for irregular riding on my 15.1hh cob - but he could probably carry more. I just dont want him to have to.
If in doubt Id go bigger - then at least you know the horse is comfortable at all times with the weight it's carrying.
I heard on here that arabs can carry as much weight as much bigger, stockier horses, due to their bone density. I didnt know that before so it's just a little bit of trivia for you :)

xxx

[Amie]

:D just a point, but top endurance horses who compete at international FEI level all have to compete at nearly twelve stone.

I have seen a pure bred arab 14.1 dainty little thing complete 100 miles and be as fresh as any other horse.

I agree that they can carry a great deal more than we realise!!!

[herbyhorse]

i have a 16.1 hh shire X cob he copes easily with my 13 1/2 st but put a 14st novice on him and he hates it. it's really a question of balance

I ride 13.3hh ponies and they're fine in their balance saddles, it's the slender legged big boys that have problems.

My firends 17hh Ex-racer is on the limit with my weight as he's so dainty (probably in my head and has v.small wintec)

The Irish sports hore could probably take upto 16st if the saddle fits and has a large baring area and if the horse is fit and sound.

best is to do a trial ride, if you feel they're wobbly and unbalanced it could be a weight issue or fitness. best to feel comfortable.

HH

[Big Ears]

yes it's the style of the rider that can be just as important as the weight.

a heavy weightwise rider who rides lightly and considerately with balance is much easier for the horse to carry than a lighter rider who thumps around, tugs, bounces and is generally not in good balance.

[LovemyTB's]

There was an article on this in the Feb issue of Equos Magazine. In the U.S. the opinion is 200 pounds on a 1000 pound horse. That includes the tack as well, although the article did go on to say that if the rider was just doing some pleasure riding here and there, additional weight would not be a problem. It seemed to be leaning more towards people who are actively working or training their horse on a constant basis that should be more careful about weight.

I have known some very big people who ride and I don't see evident strain on their animals, but I have to admit that reading the article has inspired me to shed a few more pounds, since I am almost at the limit (while holding my heaviest tack). My one horse, 16.2hh is 1000 pounds, and my 17+hh guy is about 1200. However, both of these guys only carried 100 pound jockeys in their recent past life, so I try to be considerate of them as they are retrained into my world.

The article is very interesting tho.

[vickie]

a horse can carry 25% of its body weight on average, up to 28% if fit, and down to 20% if young or with poor back conformation. there was some indepth research done and for the life of me i can't remember where i saw it or find it again. these weights are for a days hunting, not just a pootle round. its not just bone thats an indication of weight carrying ability, its also the breadth of the loins.

it depends what your actual height and weight is what sort of horse you look for. my 14.1hh welsh section D was happy with 15 stone of balanced experienced rider, but wasn't happy with 12/13 stone of more novice rider.

[Chip]

I used to have a formula for working out roughly how much a horse can carry, sorry but I can't remember it. Just wanted to say we have a 15hh cob, very stocky. He has happily carried a 19 stone person and now carries a 15 stone novice with no problems.

There is no 'set' definition, as every horse varies.

good luck in your search.

[Yann]

This is of great interest to us too, as my daughter is rapidly approaching the 20% mark weightwise with little Gem. Gem is pretty fit, has never shown the slightest indication of discomfort, and her recent back check came up fine. Vickie, that's a really interesting post, whilst Gem is small (11.2), she is very wide and powerfully muscled at the loins, hopefully this means that even though my ever growing daughter may be getting borderline weightwise it shouldn't be a problem for a while yet.

[JOJOBA]

Yann -
you've met me so you know Im fairly tall and leggy :p. I rode a 12hh pony (fine boned Welsh B) up until I was 11 (and about 5'7"). I didnt weigh that much (perhaps 7 or 8 stone? Probably not that much actually) but had to give up riding him. The problem wasnt my weight at all - it was my length of leg.T his is something to take into account too - I loved that little pony, but being so tall I unbalanced him. He was still happy for me to ride him (in fact he loved it - galloping off at every opportunity, showing me up in jumping classes and getting me 2nd place in the Pony Club show equitation because, to quote the judge, 'I kept making him come back' :p), but the yard suggested I stopped so as not to put strain on him. So he went back to just being ridden by the lady who owned him, who was heavier than me but much shorter.
I had to give up my first loan pony (a 13.2hh Welsh C) because I looked too big on him. I looked like someone had folded my legs up to get on him - that must have affected his balance, even though I was built like a stick.

Last month I rode a connemara on our yard. YO said it'd be a one off as I was too big for him really. He's only a baby - but he's about 14.2hh (only a couple of inches smaller than my horse) and very chunky, and I only weigh 9 stone. But my length of leg upset his balance a little as he's fairly narrow and as a young horse I couldnt have ridden him regularly.

So I think it's also important to take build into account. If you are long legged, you will need a horse with a good girth to stop you making it unbalanced (esp novice riders). I look a tad large on my 15.1hh cob - he's got a good deep girth but my feet are still below his stomach. I certainly wouldnt go much smaller than him unless it was a very chunky horse.
Just throwing a new topic in!
xxx

[*HaRRY-J*]

This is of great interest to us too, as my daughter is rapidly approaching the 20% mark weightwise with little Gem. Gem is pretty fit, has never shown the slightest indication of discomfort, and her recent back check came up fine. Vickie, that's a really interesting post, whilst Gem is small (11.2), she is very wide and powerfully muscled at the loins, hopefully this means that even though my ever growing daughter may be getting borderline weightwise it shouldn't be a problem for a while yet.

When I had Marble I knew a lady who owned show ponies- but she didn't have a horse large enough for her to ride herself. Quite regulary we would go out for a hack together- she would ride Marble and I would ride her 11.2 Section A (I'm 5' 7"!)

[Yann]

The point about rider height and length of leg is a good one too. However I'm not entirely sure that raw height is much of a factor unless you're going to do stuff like jump where balance is critical. Rider leg length and depth through the horse's girth are important, but more of a rider comfort / preference issue, so long as the leg can be applied meaningfully for the horse.

The 'too tall for the horse' thing is a can of worms that's been opened often enough on here before, with all the adults on ponies and icey fans:D However as far as Nat and Gem are concerned there's plenty of pony to take Nat's leg still, though she's over 5ft now. And I'm 6ft on a 15.1, so we're both underhorsed;)

[chewitmonster]

My horse is classed as an Irish Sports horse and he's about 16.2hh/16.3hh. We bought him for me and mum. Mum was worried that he wouldn't carry her but she rode him when we tried him out and he carried her fine. not sure of her exact weight (because she's lost some) and don't know if she wants me to broadcast it so I'll roughly say she's between 15 and 17 stone.

He is lacking muscle because of time off through the winter so at the moment I am the only one riding him. When the weathers better I try to take him out on hacks and trot up hills to help fitten him up and muscle him out, and in the school - lots of circles and changing transitions. Mum is hoping to start riding him Easter time. He would be fine carrying her now but he's only young and to make my mum feel better we're toughening him up a bit!! xxx

[Peace]

Pink's Lady - I'm interested in how the RDA derive their formula. I get that length times girth squared equals an approximation of the horse's weight in pounds - but where does the 1800 in the denominator come from? :)

[Yann]

I would guess it's some sort of constant combining pi, the density of the horse and the proportion of its own bodyweight which it can manage:D

[Pink's lady]

Pink's Lady - I'm interested in how the RDA derive their formula. I get that length times girth squared equals an approximation of the horse's weight in pounds - but where does the 1800 in the denominator come from? :)

Almost - the weight of the horse is calculated by length X girth squared ,divided by 300. That gives the horses weight in pounds. Then they carry a 6th of their body weight, so you divide it 6 to give their carrying weight. 300 x 6 = 1800. It was just easier to write up like that. Calculating weight like that is a bit more accurate than using a weight tape.

That is for a fit, well-schooled horse with a well fitted saddle.

It was all worked out by a Scandinavia family (scientists or something), and all the RDA centre's were sent a wall chart with instructions.

Many, many RDA ponies are overloaded as people don't realise quite how difficult it is for a horse to carry an unbalanced rider. A wobbly rider rides at 15% or more to their standing scale weight.

So, I weight 10st first thing in the morning. Add all my clothes and boots and I weight nearer 11st. I can ride, but if I was wobbly, I'd have a riding weight of nearly 13st (and 2st for the saddle). That a really big difference, and puts me well out of the capacity of the little ponies they have. And an overweight rider that's unbalanced has an even higher % added, as it's much harder to have control over fat than muscle.

Can you imaging how much the small 14.3 cob (their 'big' (and only) weight carrier) must have struggled at the RDA centre I used to teach? (until I finally fell out with the organiser about it). He was expected to carry 14st+ of very overweight riders who were very unbalanced, and usually sat really badly in the saddle (legs out in front of them, all weight on back of saddle). Their riding weight was about 17 1/2 st plus a 2st saddle. Thats a little pony carrying almost 20st. No wonder he was really grumpy!


Oh, and the pony was horribly overweight, so was already carrying a 100lb +extra weight of his own.

Being too tall adds about 5% to you're riding weight, even if you're really balanced.

I don't see why weight (up to a point) should restrict anyone from riding, but the horse needs to be picked carefully. Just becasue the horse CAN carry 30st, doesn't mean it's fair to expect them to. My shetland galloped off with me the last time I sat on her but I wouldn't be willing to ride her. There's a reason most riding schools have a weight limit of 15st.

[Yann]

Being too tall adds about 5% to you're riding weight, even if you're really balanced.

In this context how do you define too tall?

[Pink's lady]

Dunno really. I think you've just meant to judge. I just look and think - 'quite tall on that horse'. I suppose it would be if the horse is below your shoulders, I'd class as too tall. Well not 'too' tall, , as in 'shouldn't be riding', just tall. So a I'm really too tall for a 14.2. Doesn't mean I can't ride them, just that I'm tall on them.

There probably is a way of deciding on height - probably some formula or other - body length to horse leg length ot something. I don't really go by height, but weight. However, I do take into account if a riders really tall on a pony.

[Keepsmiling]

:eek: reading this thread is giving me doubts about my pony partner and i, as a suitable combo !!

i need reassurance lol

i am 5"5 tall, slim build i weigh 8.7 stone when fully kitted out on my riding gear. My pony is a 6/7yr old Fell pony (i have owned since she was 6months of age) she is roughly somewhere between 13-13.3hh (never been measured) very chunky, lots of bone, but not overweight. when standing along side her, her withers come just above my shoulders.

please comment !!

thanx ;)

[teegee]

I think the basic conformation of the horse is important. A long backed horse will be able to carry less weight than a short backed horse. A horse that is broad in the loins - is also more up to weight than a horse that is not. The bone measurement is a also guide - it should be min. of 8" for a weight of 1000 lbs. The bone measurement must increase as the weight increases. A horse that is carrying too much bodyweight himself will be therefore able to carry less. Often very big horses are much less able to carry weight than smaller horses - for this reason.

Fitness also plays a part as well as rider ability. As someone else has said the rider's ability is also relevant. A well balanced rider will ride "lighter" than an unbalanced rider who weighs less.

My OH is 6'2" - and he weighs 14 stone (much more when you count saddle, boots etc etc). His horse is a sturdy 16HH cob cross - that carries him with no problem.

Remember that the ISH can be quite varied so it is difficult to say just judging on height. For example these 3horses are all registered ISH of 15.2 16.2 and 17H. Type and strength can differ a lot.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v671/pamandcharles/Horses/th_224f3608.jpg http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL772/3287609/6733489/86803680.jpghttp://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL638/3294243/6747860/87472606.jpg

[herbyhorse]

FAO keep smiling

sounds like you have a fine partnership size wise, I would suspect your pony would be capable of carrying up to 12st happily. I bet your pony thinks you're as ligth as a feather.

HH

P.S mounting from the ground .... V.bad for tall horses

[charlottebronte]

i have a 14.2hh dales pony who carries my weight fine and she has also carried my 17 stone friend with out problem.
here is a picture she is actually tanking off towards a jump
http://www.stephens-photography.com/Hurstfields%20Eventers%20Challenge%2031st%20August%202003/images/prevs/prev97.jpg
http://www.stephens-photography.com/Hurstfields%20Eventers%20Challenge%2031st%20August%202003/images/prevs/prev98.jpg

[Esther.D]

keepsmiling - fell ponies were bred up here for carrying panniers of LEAD from the mines, and for farmers to take out hunting. I would be very surprised if a fit fell pony couldn't cope with 13+ stone on a full days hunting, never mind normal hacking. They are tough, well put together ponies bred to carry heavy weights.

The other thing that I don't think has been mentioned on this thread is that native ponies are generally estimated on being capable (if fit and have correct conformation) of being able to carry 1 stone per hand in height. So your fell pony should be able to carry nearly 14 stone easily...so you are a mere fly weight :D

Rupert is only 13.1hh and a new forest type, so a lot lighter than a fell, and carries me easily at over 10 stone (I am only 5ft so don't have the height issue). Doing the calculation suggested for horses I am near his top carrying weight (he is about 335kg) but according to the native version I would need to put another couple of stone on before I was too heavy. Now I certainly would hesitate with him if I was heavier than I am but at the moment we are very happy together, he trots and canters easily and is happy for me to mount, in fact both the saddler and vet have seen me mounted and commented on how well suited we were for size.

[JOJOBA]

Keepsmiling - I weigh 9 stone and am about 5'10". My horse is 15.1hh and is below my shoulder level, and is a lightweight fell x type.
I should imagine you and your horse are absolutely fine, especially as you are not heavy!

xxx

[Pink's lady]

Yep, Keep smilling, as the others said, I wouldn't be remotely bothered about you riding your pony! :D ;)

Most of the well build dales/fells I've met can carry a 12st rider no problem. Which means with their saddle etc, they carry about 14 st. So if you're a little tall your pony, you probably add about half a stone to your weight. You can eat a lot of chocolate beore you're too heavy to ride your pony! :D

[Pickles]

I have a 5 yo and as I am on the heavy side for him (currently 15st) and he's young I only ride for about 1/2 hour 5 times a week, mainly in walk.

If I got back to 10st which is the weight I was a year ago ( don't ask, medication etc) how much extra work do you think he could do without needing to get fitter?

Obviously I'd be better balanced and both our fitness would improve anyway with slowly increasing our workload, but I wondered if anyone had any way of guessing how much more work he is doing at the moment due to my extra baggage?