What is a good level of work for her?

[shandy84]

I just wanted to know what people's opinions were as to how much work a rising 4 year old should be doing.

Shandy is very physically mature, but not very forward in her training due to a lot of setbacks. She can do all gaits and we are working on improving these at the moment, she is an extremely fit pony (must be the arab side) and only seems to click on after about 20 mins, the first 20 mins is her rushing and spooking and generally being a bit of a wally, until I get her attention with some slow work etc

E=What do you think? How many times a week would you school. Hacking is a no no at the mo as she is too nervy on her own, that one unfortunatly will have to wait for Bramble to be backed to sot out

[Holly B]

I would advise only working her a few times a week so she doesn't get bored of going round and round the school. Also, although she may seem physically mature, you can't always be sure that she hasn't finished developing, so don't work her too hard or for too long. Perhaps you could work her alternate days? Keep trying different things, and if she seems to be getting bored/tired from the amount you are doing, you can always change it! :)

[cazrider]

Following on from Holly B, have you tried ground work such as Parelli with Shandy? Some people on our yard do it, one with a haflinger youngster like yours and he seems to really enjoy it as well as learning a lot and not getting bored.

[zambo]

hiya
at the moment i would just concentrate on lunging and long reining untill she is properly listing to what you are asking off her. you should do 20min sessions 5 times a week untill your ground work is properly established then concentrate on the riding side. after a few weeks of this you will notice an improvment when you ride her an in her attitude towards work

[shandy84]

I am actually wondering how much ridden work she could do.

She has been longreined walked out in hand and lunged since she was 1 1/2 it is time to move on a bit without forgetting grounfdwork entirely it is time for her to learn under saddle as she is proficient in hand

[Pickles]

You mention in your original post that you are waiting till another horse is backed so your youngster will have a companion on hacks? I think it would be more sensible to tries to rope in an old timer to go out on hacks with you, they would give her confidence and hacking would be a break from schooling which can be strenuous for younsters.

[shandy84]

There are no sensible old timers at the yard, my youngest filly is the most unflappable pony because she was born on the new forest. As before I am asking for how much work people think she should be doing at her age rather than if they think my approach is right, I have enough of that at the yard.

[cazrider]

Sorry Shandy84, I certainly didn't mean to imply that what you are doing is wrong. I misread your thread I think. :o

[Bebe]

Light hacking a couple of times a week, 1-2 schooling sessions no more than 20 mins and keeping the school figures as large as possible.

[DavidH]

At her age I wouldn't have any problem with working her 5 days a week. What she needs now is routine and consistency. How long the sessions are will depend on her but an hour should be OK. IF she starts to seem a little tired then stop.
Make sure you vary what you do on the sessions and use lots of excersises to build her right shoulder. Such as circles, fig eights, leg yeild into / out of circle and particularly lots of transitions on circles. Don't spend hours going large around the school. As a rule never do the same thing for more than 30 seconds.

BTW...voice aids. Often people think their horse is responding totally to a voice aid when under saddle. However, I suspect that most, if not all riders give other signals with their body the instant they think about changing gait.
Try and be aware of what signinals you are un-consciously giving.

[eventerbabe]

i can only go by what i was doing with my horse at that age. we were hacking out 3-4 times a week, schooling twice a week for no more than 20mins and he generally had a day off to mull over what he'd been doing that week.

[shandy84]

Sirry Cz didn't mean to snap, I keep getting told at the yard she should be at dressage standard already and if she isn't to force her there, it just gets a little irritating didn't mean to bite your head off though.

Bebe if she doesn't start working in the school, behaving etc before 20 mins is up would you still stick to what you said or would you increase it a bit. I did have her going out hacking unfortunatly we have consistently ended up fighting while out hacking as she naps so badly, so I have had to stop that, she even naps on the longreins which although annoying is more controllable.

Eventerbabe she definatly gets a day off too, normally a day in the week when I'm working harder but she doesn't seem to mind working the rest of the week, she seems more antsy if she doesn't.

David H, that sounds like a good idea, we had our first try at leg yield the other day, she was very confused, but once I'd sorted out my aids so they were a little clearer we got a few good steps, so I let it end on that as something to build on. I have read that there are two types of shoulder in, the one where the whole horse is on the diagonal and one where the horse is having to bend more around your leg is this right, if so which is the best choice?

Anyone got any thoughts on suppling exercises on the ground too?

I will keep an eye on my aids and check when I ask for something what it is the rest of me does, it's strange, I have been riding 15 years but only now am I starting to notice what I do and how it affects the horse, maybe because she doesn't save me when I make mistakes it is more obvious

[Bebe]

Bebe if she doesn't start working in the school, behaving etc before 20 mins is up would you still stick to what you said or would you increase it a bit

It depends really. I have found with Bebe (bare in mind that she's 11 so not young physically but she was very green when I started schooling again) that to begin with 20 minutes was more than enough for her mentally. I'd feel her concentration dropping off, she'd start to lick and chew and would just not have any go in her. She wasn't being naughty, just too tired to digest new info. She has got better and when she's being schooled regularly we can do 45 minutes without her brain getting fried. Youngsters are the same in that their concentration span isn't great so there's not much point doing long bouts of schooling as they'll just shut off.

Obviously if you're having huge problems with something in particular during a session you don't want to leave it on a bad note, but you'd need to use your own judgement on whether it's worth getting into an argument about it there and then, whether it's something that can be solved by going back a step and taking a tiny improvement as the positive note to end the session on, or whether she's objecting because you're just asking too much too soon. They're not things anyone other than an instructor who's watching you ride can help with though.

[cazrider]

Sirry Cz didn't mean to snap, I keep getting told at the yard she should be at dressage standard already and if she isn't to force her there, it just gets a little irritating didn't mean to bite your head off though.

No problem Shandy84. I know what its like to have unwanted advice from well meaning people on the yard. Looking forward to hearing all about Shandy next week. Can you bring some pics too? :)

[cvb]

Anyone got any thoughts on suppling exercises on the ground too?

Set up elevated poles (just off the ground, not jumps) - helps with flexion esp of hind leg, as well as use of back. e.g. as a fan shape.

start turn of forehand from the ground, and then turn on haunches, just as a single step first, then build up to quarter turn etc.

Then you can ask one step t.o.f followed by one step t.o.h. - and you have "sideways".

Now you can build up to walking forward and just asking forehand or bum to move over - and you're working on leg yield, shoulder fore etc depending on what you ask and how....

Take it slowly and calmly - but this really helps later with your ridden work :D

[helenc]

She should be able to do at least 5 days a week but I wouldn't do 5 days of pure schooling. I'd definitely try to get her out hacking, even if it's only leading her out, she needs to get out and see things otherwise she may never want to hack out alone.

I'd also set up some scary obstacles in the school - things like a big bin, some tarpauline, jump fillers, old branches, throw some rugs out - anything really that may help her confidence out hacking. Walk around, over, through them. Try using different things once she is used to them.

My week would probably consist of 2 days schooling, lunging or longreining, 1 day of scary obstacles & 2 days hacking. If you don't cure the napping at this early stage then it is likely to take over everytime you want her to do something that she doesn't want to do. As far as the schooling goes - give her a good 15 minute warm up with plenty of stretching, changes of rein & changes of pace in walk & trot before you ask her to do any 'proper' schooling, it should help her settle so that she is ready to work as soon as you ask her to.

[shandy84]

Sure can Caz, had totally forgot abotu the meet :eek: maybe yu could PM me the day before :o

Thanks CVB they are all really helpful :)

If you don't cure the napping at this early stage then it is likely to take over everytime you want her to do something that she doesn't want to do.

That's just the thing though i feel that the reason she is napping is partly because she doesn't trust a rider yet, so in some ways I want to get her school work more relaxed so that we have something to rely on if she does get upset while out. She will walk out in hand on her own and has done since she was a baby and this doesn't frighten her, she is just not a natural leader and manages to get herself in a state, I would also rather wait until we have another horse to go out with because then we can gradually encourage her to be bold rather than frightening her by forcing her out alone.

I like the idea of the scary obstacles though, we could do with them as we want to do a bit of trec and western trail classes etc so the more prep the better :)

[eventerbabe]

That's just the thing though i feel that the reason she is napping is partly because she doesn't trust a rider yet, so in some ways I want to get her school work more relaxed so that we have something to rely on if she does get upset while out. She will walk out in hand on her own and has done since she was a baby and this doesn't frighten her, she is just not a natural leader and manages to get herself in a state, I would also rather wait until we have another horse to go out with because then we can gradually encourage her to be bold rather than frightening her by forcing her out alone.



this sounds just like my horse! he used to nap very badly if asked to go out hacking on his own coz, like shandy, he's not confident, not a natural leader. he was fine if my pony came with us. sounds cruel but i used to make him go out hacking on his own (a) to get his confidence up in himself - yes toby, you CAN do it and (b) to prevent problems later on like not being able to go out hacking alone. even if its a five minute trundle down the road. we took it slowly, gradually increasing the length of time he was out on his own for. its paid dividends now coz he will go anywhere, he's so much more confident.

[shandy84]

Maybe if I was to do a schooling seesion then take her just for a walk up the lane and back then as she's already been working she may listen more and if I only go for a min or two to begin she may behave what do you think?

[eventerbabe]

fab idea!! the trick it to take things slowly, i know how much one little upset can set you back weeks, if not months

[helenc]

I would also rather wait until we have another horse to go out with because then we can gradually encourage her to be bold rather than frightening her by forcing her out alone.


The idea is to encourage her, not force her - how about tacking her up & doing a mixture of walking in hand & riding? Start off by leading her out for 20 mins & then riding back, even if you only ride for 5 minutes initially, build up her confidence slowly. Remember that she isn't going out alone - she is going with you! Have you got anybody else that she trusts who will come out with you on foot or on a bike? (if you get someone to go on a bike then try it in an enclosed space first, just in case it spooks her for the first few minutes)