Rodeos and Bronc riding etc.

[Nikknakk]

Hi. I am interested in rodeo and would love to do bronc riding. The only problem is, is that i live in the Uk. As this is an American sport and lifestyle i was wondering if anyone knew if there was training in the uk etc. I have watched rodeos and really enjoyed them but have never heard of any rodeos in the uk.If anyone could give me any information on western classes,rodeos,bronc riding in the Uk then it would be of great interest.Thanks alot.

[virtuallyhorses]

I refrained from replying after seeing this posted this morning (our time) but I notice no one else has taken the plunge soo...

What is it that you enjoy about rodeos? or would make you want to do this to a horse (or any animal)? I can understand an interest in western riding and the many western sports such as barrel racing or even cutting, which are high speed (exciting), require a partnership between horse and rider and lots of skill and training but bronc riding? :(

I could understand if you came from a background where rodeo was the norm but looking at rodeo from the outside gives me the shudders rather than making me want to participate. I'm sorry if this seems harsh but gee I just don't understand what people see as desirable in these activities (I refuse to call it a sport)

[TBs N QHs]

I was going to say this earlier, but did the same thing as you and didn't say anything.

Not too long ago I wanted to do bronc riding, until recently I found out the cruel, abusive background that goes behind it all. Now I refuse to watch it on TV.

But as to your topic, I think your just a little far fetched. I mean, it's not like you can just jump on a bucking horse and be a bronc rider.

[Nikknakk]

I understand what both of you have said and i can see why some people do not agree with bronc riding.I do not like cruelty to animals but i do not feel this is cruel.The horses are bred to buck.I am very much into having a patnership with a horse and i have a special bond with my horse.I love the other aspects of rodeo like you have said.I was just interested in finding out more about bronc riding and rodeos.I also know you cant just get on a bronc horse and just sit there but i didnt suggest i thought i could do that.I want to try as many equestrian sports/riding styles as i can and obviously i know that i probaly will never take part in a rodeo.I am sorry if this has turned into a 'heated' discussion as i didnt want it to.It was a general question and im sorry if anyone has been offended by it.

[TBs N QHs]

First thing, Broncs are NOT bred to 'buck'. They are actually fairly quiet horses.
Do you know why they buck?

They use a "Flank Strap", wich consists of little spike like things I believe.
These flanks are put around the flank area of the horse to make the horse buck like its crazed and wild. Once that strap comes off they usually stop bucking or just give out little kicks.

These flank straps cause huge discomfort to the horses, causing sores, cuts, ect.

Now most horses used for bronc riding are naturally 'wild'. Horses that have a background in bucking, and to make them a rodeo horse they simple tighten a strap on em'.

There is a website out there that has videos of this, I can't find the link though. So maybe someone will link ya up.

[chev]

I'm in the UK too and can't comment on whether horses are bred to buck, trained to buck, or coerced into it - but I have seen enough on tv recently that would put me off regardless. I've seen enough horses fall in their efforts to get the rider off, get caught on the gates coming out, and in a few cases actually run headlong into the walls that I wouldn't want to be a part of it however the bucking is induced.

If someone would like to reassure me I'd like to hear it!

[TBs N QHs]

It's the truth behind it.

[Katie_85]

The horses ARE bred to buck. Why would you take a gentle horse that you can sell for more money and train it to be a bucking horse? Where' the money in that? They do breed for it. And the flank strap is soft cotton, it actually holds back some of the bucking action. They would buck more without it. Outrider explains it so much better than I do. Wonder where he's been hiding lately?

[TBs N QHs]

Sorry, but that really isn't true. The horses can come from anywhere, including race tracks. Some of them may be bred from the rodeo horses but generaly they arent bred for that.

That is why once that flank strap falls off they stop bucking.

[Katie_85]

They might get a few from other places, but like any other discipline, the ones bred for it tend to do better. They don't stop bucking because the flank strap is off, they stop because there is no longer a rider on board to buck off and they are being herded back into the chute.

[Tootsie4U]

From my experience locally, Rodeo is a *very* regulated sport. At our local rodeo, its akin to an endurance race - the horses are temp'd, cooled and monitored very carefully by officials.

Horse ARE bred for it. And I have yet to see any horse have such contraptions as those tied around their flanks. Not saying it doesnt occurr ever or anywhere, just speaking from what Tootsie has seen, been told, and studied. Horses will actually 'tire' of bucking and when they do, they're no longer able to be used. So, they're traded off for breeding stock.

Whether or not the horses enjoy it? I dont know, you'd have to ask them. But one things for sure, I've yet to see a horse more loving his work than rodeo horses used to team penning, chasing, etc. Man, they're so in the zone its amazing!

[lollielala]

In just about every rodeo I've been to or been a part of, the horses are very well cared for. Except for in one instance, I've seen a horse injured. In the summer of 2003 while on vacation, I went to a rodeo in Moab, Utah and one of the horses in the saddle bronc came down on his right front leg and broke it. Of course, the horse had to be put down but I don't believe that one accident out of the hundreds of rodeos I've been to should speak for all of them. Some of you may view it as harsh and cruel, and that's your right to have an opinion, but I don't necessarily think it is. I watch all of the events at the rodeos I go to, and I see how well the livestock is treated. And I've seen the bucking horses as calm as can be once they're out of the arena. I just don't think it should be judged as harsh as it has been. But that's just my opinion. :)

[Wally]

I have been watcing stuff on Sky, just watching and observing the horse's reactions.

I notice that they stand in the gates while the rider gets "tied on" ;) very relaxed, interested, not at all bothered about the rider on his back or the folk around him. I notice too some look as though they are enjoying the bucking and getting the rider off. Some seem hell bend on scraping him off on the wall and then having a go, like a bull, once he's off.

I'm not sure about whether there is a cruelty issue or not, maybe there have been incidents in the past where some unscrupulous owners have not cared well for the horses. The bulls look well though, and they do seem to enjoy trampling the odd cowboy. ;)

The only thing I have trouble with is it just isn't my way of thinking, not wrong perse, but I spend my time trying to make sure everything is perfect so the horse never needs to buck, then other folk come along in another sport and make everything right so DO they buck!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What I did notice in the barrel racing was how insecure and weak seated some of those riders were, how they stayed on as often as they did amazed me. :eek: :eek: if my backside spent as much time out of the saddle as theirs did, well, It was all very strange.

[chev]

Wally, I think you've probably hit the nail on the head with the alien way of thinking.... probably the oddest thing for me is trying to get my head round the whole idea!

Flank straps... was watching the Mesquite rodeo a couple of nights ago (1986, I think, so it's not very current!) and yes, all the horses had straps round the flank. No, they didn't all stop bucking when the rider came off - but nor did they have spikes anywhere. The straps were lined with sheepskin.

Spent some more time thinking about this last night and it occurred to me that my problem has to be mainly cultural. The injuries to the horses are really no different to the kind of injuries you'd see in eventing, for example. The risks of injury are probably about the same too. All comes down to what you're familiar with, I suppose.

None of the horses have any kind of marks or abrasions on them, none of them are thin, or scruffy - they all seem to be well respected too. I imagine that a rodeo rider faced with an English style showjumper hacking out in draw reins with the horses mouth held shut with a flash would probably have the same reaction that I did to rodeo.

Still think they're mad to want to ride a bull though! :p

[Wally]

The kids up the road here do bull riding.....truly. I nearly dropped dead to see a neighbour's kids and friends all lined up on his Charolais bull. The bull took no notice at all and carried on eating. Quite happy, I wish I'd have had a camera.

Now if I could enter the Mesquite bull riding on that one I'd stay on for the 8 seconds or whatever it is. ;) :D

[cvb]

.... Not saying it doesnt occurr ever or anywhere, just speaking from what Tootsie has seen, been told, and studied.

Hmm - this is the second or so thread I've seen where you've referred to yourself in the 3rd person - 'fess up, is that the bump speaking ?? :eek:

[Jessey]

Chev - the program you have been watching on sky (I have too) really is the worst of the worst - hense being called 'Rodeo Wrecks'.
These bucking horses can be worth up to $100,000.00 and probably more (if they are really good),They are very, very well looked after.
I think most of the horses on the professional circuit today are bred for the job, from previous good bucking horses. On the local scale I'm sure they are not all bred for it, The ranch that I go to in Montana will send a horse to the rodeo if it is a profuse bucker (after having physically checked it out) He said that 97% of horses that go there because they buck quit very quickly (even with the bucking strap) there are very few who will continue to buck and make it as bucking horses, those that quit he will take home again and use on the ranch and he says they generally never buck again. There is a very small minority of professional bucking horses who once the bucking strap is removed are perfect saddle horses??????????????

The bucking/flank strap is a soft cotton rope, often covered with sheepskin so that it does not rub / chaf, it does encourage the horse to buck but as I said of all the horses put into the chute something like 97% will quit bucking within the first ride or two, This strap will not force them to buck.

This is only what I have found from reasearch so if I'm wrong please do correct me.

J

[cvb]

just for a second passing on the rights or wrongs of rodeo etc and going back to the original question....

My understanding of rodeos is that its more than just broncs, you've got all the roping classes etc as well.

Well - the reason we don't get that over here is thanks to Queen Vic. She saw a US rodeo what came to UK (Wild Bill or whoever) and decided that the roping was cruel to the calf.

(Yes - I know I know - huntin' shootin' fishin' OK, roping calf - not OK. Don't ask me. She also figured "women wouldn't do that sort of thing" which is why UK laws on homsexuals only cover men !).

So - we can not do a lot of the stuff that makes up a rodeo. I believe there are now "team penning" classes - Jessey will confirm I think ? (sort of "four men and their horses" rather than "one man and his dog" ;) )

There are also "normal" ridden western classes i.e. person and horse and no other livestock involved.

[virtuallyhorses]

We have local rodeos here too and occasionally see the circuit from the States. When it comes to rodeo as a 'sport' it's the whole mentality that disturbs me more than anything. The basic idea being that if you can outlast or out muscle an animal by any means then this is 'heroic' regardless of the outcome for the animal, bring on the gladiators. Calf roping being more brutal than the bronc riding IMHO. Indeed, the animals (these days with SPCA supervision) are no more likely to be injured than an eventer or hunter or even a pleasure horse - but it sits uncomfortably with me. I feel a world of difference between this spectacle and an accident, although I certainly understand what you're saying about cultural differences and some horseowners who treat their horses like motorbikes. (But that's the old two wrongs make a right argument :( )

With regard to flank straps - I've never seen a steer\bull or bronc bucking without one - whatever the material they are in place to create the buck and one of the jobs of the riders is to pull the release cord on the flank strap after rider is off - that's when the bucking stops. Sheepskin or otherwise these straps are designed specifically to be tightened in a very uncomfortable area and so to produce bucking
http://www.americaslibrary.gov/assets/es/ne/es_ne_cody_1_e.jpg

http://prorodeo.org/animals/equipment.html tells you about the equipment they use - they tell you that a flank strap does not cause a horse to buck - unless it is inclined to . One wonders why they're used then...

Do a google image search and you wont find a rodeo picture without a tight flank strap http://images.google.co.nz/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-12,GGLD:en&q=bronc+riding+rodeo

[mayS]

We have local rodeos here too and occasionally see the circuit from the States. When it comes to rodeo as a 'sport' it's the whole mentality that disturbs me more than anything. The basic idea being that if you can outlast or out muscle an animal by any means then this is 'heroic' regardless of the outcome for the animal...

You said it perfectly! :)

I am in the US and close enough to the southern states where rodeos are held. I respectfully disagree rodeos are acceptable or a good sport. It's really a backwards mentality. They capitalize on people's desire for raw excitement, brutish behavior, and sensationalism. The crowd cheers when a person is thrown off a bucking horse, and the crowd goes even more wild when the horse stomps on the rider before being herded away. Rodeo goers care nothing about the horse's well being-- it would be like caring about the crushed cars at a demolition derby.

And any "caring" they do about the horses before a rodeo is forgotten as soon as he isn't a top bucker; just another horse sent off to slaughter. After all, what good is a horse who was taught his whole life not to accept a rider and to hate people?

There is a movement in the US to boycott rodeos, especially the most brutal "sports" in the rodeo. The more progressive states don't host rodeos much anymore; nobody wants to see it. It's just that it'll take awhile to get those who do to find other sources of income or entertainment.

[Bacharel]

ALRIGHT. These horses ARE bred to buck. And CORRECTION they DO NOT get sores becaus ethey only can buck a rank horse 2-3 times a week.. for an average of 24 seconds, so how could they possibly get sore. i can understand why u think this is cruel but it really is not. if it was SPCA and PETA would be all over it faster than flys on horse s***. they do use the use of spur but they have rowels and roll of the side of the horse. the horses are well taken care of too. if u want to talk about cruelty talk about the slaugter houses, and abandoned horse everywhere... rodeo and bronc riding is the really the main target because it is in the public eye. If you would like to talk more about the issue please write back.

[Bacharel]

Notice The F-l-e-e-c-e On The Bucking Strap In The Picture.

[TBs N QHs]

Im still disagreeing. It may be different in other rodeos, but the low budget, local rodeos is where you see the abuse. Im still trying to find the website that has the pictures and videos.

[chev]

Have to admit that it's the mentality that worries me. That I put down to rodeo being born from a whole different way of life - one which is completely alien to mine. But the picture virtuallyhorses has posted sums up what makes me uncomfortable though - that horse is not enjoying his work. Everything about him says stress. A horse going x country (for example) has a very different look about him, even though the work is physically just as demanding.

I still find it really hard to get my head round the whole thing - I spend my life trying to teach my ponies to accept things, to be happy around people and what they ask of them - so this is kind of tough to understand.

So now I really don't know what to think....

[laura jeanne]

Using horses or bulls like that for peoples' amusement is what bothers me about the whole thing.

TBsN QHs, you are probably right about some small, local rodeos not taking care of their horses that well, but I think that in any riding sport there are people who just USE horses and don't really care about them as individuals.

Sorry, I think the whole thing is appalling.

[Bacharel]

Well I know you say its abusive, but in every horse sport out there there is always a good chunck of horses getting abused, not saying it is right. And also if heard the Bulls breeders even say "people think it is abuse, but its either this or mcdonalds"and it is true. I would much rather place an animal in a Rodeo then to a slaughter house. Abuse is when another animal sees one of its own kind shocked, or hit in the head to death, smell the blood, and she its owns species hanging upside down by one leg. That is what I find abusive.

Also if those horse are "bucked" a lot they wont buck, yes the flank strap is there to cause them to buck, but after a while they will just run.

Also: I teach my horse to accept me too, but in no way shape or form is she a rodeo horse, these horses are selected to become a bronc.

www.cowboyway.com/ BroncRiding.htm

[horseygal90]

The thing I find hard to understand about it is why people enjoy it so... Doing it must be a rush, but lots of people and animals can get hurt.

I watched a programme where a guy was doing rodeo, he came off but got his foot caught in the stirrup. Result- he was dragged around the arena, broke numerous bones etc. The horse had stopped bucking when th eguy fell, but was running round the pen like a scared animal, and thats all it really was. Five seconds later it was cornered and a group of about 15 people were swarming around him and the horse, trying to get the horse 'under control' - quote marks used there becuase the horse had stopped and was standing panting, not doing anyone any harm. However they proceded to bite its ears (apparently its a signal for most rodeo horses to stop and stay still) and stand as if it was about to attack them.

Also I observed that during EVERY buck, he was there kicking the horse on with some very nasty looking spurs.

I don't think these people really understand what they're doing to the horses - and if they did they'd realise there must be something wrong with the horse, horses don't just buck for no good reason.

How do you breed a horse to buck anyway? No horse is malicous from birth.

[Wally]

I would shoot my horses myself rather than sell them to a rodeo, same with any of my cattle.

It is not the killing and eating of animals which is the issue, it is the life we give them beforehand which is far, far more important. Any domesticated animal must have a life free of stress and a dignified one as close to their natual instincts as we can give them.

To see one of my animals reduced to the looking like that picture which virtuallyhorses posted would break my heart.

[Ehley]

the horses that do bronco riding love what they are doing ..my trainer had a bronco horse on weekdays he was the heard roping horse and on weekends he was a bronco horse and they love what they do ..its in their blood...thats what they breed them for

[virtuallyhorses]

... I would much rather place an animal in a Rodeo then to a slaughter house. ..



But it's not an either \ or - when finished its career in the rodeo the slaughterhouse is where these steers, bulls and horses are headed too. Do you think that they go to a nice rodeo retirement ranch to live out their days and die peacefully in their sleep? Some bulls may live on to be bred but not the majority.

The real choice is what happens to these animals prior to the slaughterhouse... for those of us who are not vegan\vegetarian, this is always the choice. Does the animal live a 'natural', happy life prior to becoming a piece of steak. I'm just as opposed to live animal exports to the middle east, feedlots, premarin mares, battery chickens and pigs ... and I don't fall for this two wrongs make a right argument :(

[chev]

the horses that do bronco riding love what they are doing

The one in virtuallyhorses' pic isn't loving anything. Look at the face - that is the expression of a horse under a huge amount of stress. It's a very unhappy expression.

We watched the wrecks on Sky again last night. The horses there all had the same tense, stressed, scared expressions. They didn't stop bucking when the rider came off. The flank straps were tight. Several fell, one crashed head-long into the concrete barrier. Ok, so these are the worst of the accidents - but there were many, and this was also one of the better rodeos - not local level at all. One of the riders got hung, and it took two mounted riders and several on foot to corner the bronc and hold him still enough to free the rider. Once they let go, that bronc ran. It wasn't enjoyment. It was panic.

Take a look at Rodney Temple's bronc photographs. Those where you can actually see the bronc's face don't show happy horses either. Their mouths betray extreme tension, their nostrils are usually triangular in shape (a sign of serious stress), their eyes are not soft or relaxed in any way and their ears are usually sideways - these horses are worried, and stressed, and not loving it at all. Even the saddle broncs have flank straps.

The more I see, the more my mind is made up. They don't need to have sores, or visible ribs, to be unhappy. What those horses are being put through in the name of entertainment is just sad.

A quote from Don Gay last night describing the broncs - 'facing the meanest animals who just want to trample you into the ground.' One of the broncs shown last night went through the most incredible convulsions to avoid stepping on a rider who came off and fell under his feet. It struck me last night that the whole thing is unjust, even down to the way these horses are described for teh sake of showmanship.

[Katie_85]

You know what, I think it just comes down to a culture thing. You all wouldn't think of putting a horse thorugh a chute, and I wouldn't think of putting a horse over a 6 foot fence. Diff'rent strokes.

[Jessey]

Rodeo wrecks really is some of the bottom of the barrel - 20 odd years ago.
I reacently watched a documentary about one of the big canadian rodeos and it showed you all behind the scenes, the treatment right through the rodeo season and after, I didn't think these animals had such a bad life at all.

There is one bucking horse (I can't remember his name for the life of me) and he will be in the chutes and buck with the best of them and a couple of hours later he is one of the pick up horses, just like an eventer he has several diferent jobs he can do.

With the bucking strap I have seen some bronc rides finnish their 8 seconds, reach behind them and release the bucking strap and dismount happily. I agree that on 'rodeo wrecks' the animals are portraied very badly

A quote from Don Gay last night describing the broncs - 'facing the meanest animals who just want to trample you into the ground.'

this is really not helping the whole view of rodeo, but I think we have all come a long way in terms of the ways animals should be treated in the last 20 years.

I do agree that by the very nature of rodeo these animals are opened up to the possibility of cruel treatment but I think that is true of any domesticated horse/cow/dog etc, If rodeo gets shuned underground there will be even less hope of controlling it, while its big bussiness they can't afford to be cruel to any of the animals.

Here in the UK we have Team and individual penning, a team cattle drive, cutting and working cow horse. We are not allowed to rope cows (although we can break-away rope) and we cannot wrestle cows by law.
We can ride cattle, these normally end up being steers (due to the slaughter requirements, 13 months) and we can have bucking horses (normally wild ponies), but we are not allowed to use bucking straps in either case.

[chev]

You know what, I think it just comes down to a culture thing. You all wouldn't think of putting a horse thorugh a chute, and I wouldn't think of putting a horse over a 6 foot fence. Diff'rent strokes.

I think you're probably right, to be honest. I'd actually like to see a real rodeo, before I honestly made my mind up. It's like anything - there's a wealth of information showing it as well managed and pretty normal, and a wealth showing it as pretty awful.

Comes back to what I said about the bronc rider who'd probably look at a showjumper riding out in draw reins and flash and wonder what that was about, or at a dressage rider using a de gogue to get an outline on the lunge.... (which also has the effect of making me go :eek: sometimes even though it's supposed to be part of my culture).

(Although I have to admit I wouldn't think about putting a horse over a 6' jump either! :eek: )

[lexus82291]

i live in tennessee.i ride quater horses and barrel race.in the big rodeos bucking horses are taken care of.in the lower class rodeos however they do not treat the bucking stock well.hate to be so honest but when some of these horses are old and they can't buck anymore someone either says i want this horse or take im to the glue factory.yes i agree that alot of your opinon comes from how you've been raised.my mother thinks that its cruel.i however think its how they are treated.these horses are bred for this.if u watch the national finals rodeo there stock is taken care of.there horses are the top of the line & they pay people to use em.so there its the owners takin care of em.i don't know bout ya'll but if i had that much money invested in a horse i'd take care of it.

[Peace]

Outrider explains it so much better than I do. Wonder where he's been hiding lately?

I don't know, but I believe I found the thread you're thinking of:
Previous rodeo thread (http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5725&highlight=rodeo)

[Sterling]

I've been around the rodeos for years and haven't seen the abuse that it stated. Though I am sure it exists(it does in every sport).

A happy expression? Of course not...its not exactly as relaxing into a working trot. I wouldn't say that they are unhappy either. *shrugs* My boyfriend did the rodeos before joining the navy, and he says that the horses were treated better than the cowboys. He went from local to national rodeos, and can vouch for more than I can.