horse help

[Silver1]

ok, i know it is very rarely the horses fault, and in this case it really is.

Ace is an Arab, a really stupid Arab. He likes me, i'm his "buddy" I don't make him do mean things like wear a saddle and climb into it, or make him work, or do things he doesn't wanna do. (I do he just doesn't think of it that way)

My job is pretty much to groom him, cool him out, clean his stall, etc (riding lessons) but today, i had to do a few things EXTRA, like hold the horse on a lead so his trainer could get off, he skittered a little bit when she got off, but it was better then before when he would rear, or bolt, or put his head in her lap when ever she tried to get off.

THen she ran him into the ground, until he was sweating so hard it was dripping off his halter, fetlocks, etc. (the sweating wasn't from running, but nerves, he wasn't cantered and trotted more then 15 minutes in a small schooling pin, but he spooks at EVERYTHING)

And then she had me hold him again, and he stood like a rock while she got on and off.

This is just a small display of what he does, he is great to lead, except occasionally he will step on your toes, doesn't bite or kick or anything, and when he is afraid of things often enough he just looks at it, or is reluctant to aproach it.

What do i do with this problem horse? Or suggest be done?

we've allready tried all of monty roberts, which helped a little bit, but he has been away from the herd (with a flock of sheep) for so long, he isn't afraid of coyotes, etc. So he isn't afraid of being alone.

We just don't know what to do.

[Gracie]

well as Pat Parelli(I have a feeling I spelt that wrong) would say there is no such thing as a problem horse, there are only problem riders. You have to some how think like a horse! What was in the horses pastthat may have made him do this? And it could be possibly your fault ... remember horses cannot see directionly behind or infront of them so it is also possibly something in front of him was scaring him! Also horses have excellent senses... sometimes you just need to look deeper into the problem... it may possibly not be the horses fault even!

[LadyLimerik]

Maybe i understood the message wrong but that seems like a bit of harsh punishment just for skittering around when someone is dismounting. I men a horse has to knoe to stand still and everything but from what you said the horse seems nervous enough without being run into the ground.

[Outrider]

Sorry Silver, but it is not Ace's fault. Yes, many Arabs are "hotter" and/or more nervous than other breeds, but they still have to be given a reason to BE nervous. I have to say that if Monty Roberts techniques were done, I might think that perhaps they were not done quite right or there is something else going on between the horse and the trainer. Join up isn't what should be used in my opinion when a horse refuses to stand still to dismount or mount. There are other methods that can be done. A recent issue of Western Horseman showed a technique that uses a focus point on the end of a stick along with treats to make a horse stand still both for mounting and dismounting.

If the horse was sweating as badly as you say after only 15 minutes, you are correct to think it is nerves. There is something going on in his head that makes him nervous when working with the trainer. Does he do this with everyone who works him?

If this horse isn't yours, "you" don't do anything with him. If he is your lesson horse it is your trainer's responsibility to make him work properly for you. My first thought is to have someone other than this particular trainer start over with the basics and see if he doesn't take them better. I don't mean to insult anyone at your barn, and I do agree that SOMETIMES it can be the horse's fault, but rarely. And this just isn't one of those times. Happy Trails!

[horselover]

I know that the advice you have been given probably isn't what you want to hear, but I think that it is right. Most of the time, we want to blame horses. Well, don't forget all that we expect of a horse is just not natural for them. They are great to ride, but they have to learn about being ridden and people and stuff like standing still. It isn't natural for them. Some horses take to it better than others, and it sounds like this Arab is just having harder time.

I agree that maybe your instructor should be considering a professional trianer if she can't handle the horse. And also, am I correct in remembering that I think you have only been riding a short while? Please don't be offended by what I am going to say b/c it applies to all beginning riders, not just you. If you haven't been riding very long, and you haven't been taught the basics of training a horse, you really shouldn't be training. Your instructor should be, and you should be observing. But it does sound to me like your instructor should get a professional in. They can do a lot with a horse in only a week.

Hope you aren't angry by what I said, but it could be more damaging to a horse with a "problem' to have someone inexperienced working on them. I certainly wouldn't have attempted it when I started.

[laurel]

I must say it does sound a bit harsh for the poor thing. My horse used to do that all the time, and she wasnt an Arab. Just try the treat-for-being-good thing. Ask the owner of the horse if she'll help or ask permission to do it with someone else. Just mount and dismount a few times in a row and when the horse stays still award him. If he doesnt then dont and dismount immediately. So not to cause too much back strain try using one of those mounter-upper thingies whatever they r called!! A stool or something, y'know? It worked for me.

[Dizzy]

I also think his treatment was harsh. When you say his trainer asked you to hold while she got off, it does seem as if the horse is not accepting the riders aids. This could be for many reasons, he simply doesn't understand, he's not being asked properly, he's worried (maybe by harsh treatment when he doesn't respond correctly), or even discomfort (from his back/mouth).

Arabs do tend to over-react, but are very clever and will soon outwit and play up someone who isn't prepared to be fair to them.

If it was me, I would start from the ground, do inhand work. As Outrider suggested, I would use a stick (please note: not to beat the horse with) but as an extention of my hand. I would have the stick in my outside hand and use it as a gate. Have the horse stood and the stick held in front of his face (as a gate), as you ask for walk on with your voice, open the gate, allow a few strides forward and ask for halt with your voice, at the same time using an exagerrated swing of the stick, closing it (the gate) across the horses chest (once again, you do not really need to touch the horse with the stick) seeing the 'gate' close and your voice command should bring the horse to a halt. If it carries on walking, do a circle, and ask again, repertition, calmness and persistence is how you will gain understanding and obedience. Its best to do this type of work at first with a wall or fence on the off side so you don't lose them out the off side. (Also this is a brief description, just to give a general idea).

Work like this from the ground, builds the horses understanding and teaches it to respond to your voice. So when you're in the saddle and you ask for halt with your hands and body, you can use your voice and it will link your aids and voice and understand what its being asked.

Maybe you could suggest this to his trainer, difficult I know. But horses usually aim to please, when there is a good sympathetic, understanding rider/trainer. Nearly all horses problems stem back to being misunderstood, and mistreated because they're classed as naughty, which creates nervousness and bad reactions. Its the ability to step back and work out a route where you can communicate clearly to a horse what you want it to do that makes a good trainer.

This horse sees you as his buddy because you do nice things for him, he'll also see his trainer in the same way, if she 'talks' to him in a voice he can understand.

Please don't try this yourself, its not your responsibility, but please bear in mind a good trainer turns out happy, well behaved horses. Not ones exhausted or stressed into good behaviour, that's a short term measure. A good trainer is firm, persistant and most of all understanding and is willing to go back to basics if they have to, to gain a willing partner who's happy to respond to thier requests.

Lesley