Join Up without the ''join up'' and treats

[floppy]

Can you ''join up'' with your horse without the round pen and without the sending away of the horse??

in that you just work with your horse in a area without headcollar or anything and you encourage it to come to you when you want it too ...and then to back off from you with added pressure of making yourself look big?

and then while you walk around near the horse it watches you and when you cross its path it then follows you around stopping every so often, but then in the end affect always ends up coming to you?


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on another note when one does the join up, would it be wrong to do this and backup any postive rewards (stroking) with a small bit of carrot or something??

I was just thinking, because if i do somethign with elja that i know she isnt going to appreciate much like riding up and down a small offroad to take pictures then i give her a small bit of carrot at the end of each run, about the size of a penny and she will happily play with until the carrot runs out. The first time i ever did a ''photo shooting'' i didnt think of giving her treats and she played up (understandable)

She seems to react more and knows she is doing the right thing when food is involved....it backs up any stroking or voice compliments i give her and she responds from all of those more if its occasionally backed up with a nibble...no treat and i think she doesnt seem to understand that she really has done well...

is this wrong?

[galadriel]

I've accidentally done join up (before I knew the concept) in a large field. I used to work with a pony who was permanenty "joined up"--she stayed nearly attached to my hip no matter what her rider did, which made her great for little kiddee lessons.

It's more of a concept than a method, I think, and can be accomplished in many different ways.

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Re: treats...

I'm currently trying to wean my Morgan off the idea that teats are the same as reward. She has much the same idea as you describe with Elja; if she gets a treat, she seems to understand better than she has been a good girl. I would like her to respond to verbal praise as well, though, so I am increasing the number of times when I praise her, and trying to reduce the number of times that she also gets a treat.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, really, but I do want her to be able to respond to me even if I do not have a treat on hand. She may look for the treat, but she may not demand it. She should behave at all times, and sometimes she *may* get a treat also.

[Bacharel]

If you use treats they most likely will not "join up" but instead it end up them just following because they know they will get something. You want your horse to "join up" without being bribed.

[floppy]

elja wont and i reacon never will join up.

but she will after i have done some ground work walk around with me. follow me around and when i leave hang aroudn at the gate until she knows im really not coming back.

thing is, i have done a test with her, she reacts twice as fast to something when there is titbits involved. when she does something good i always say ''Fiiiiine'' and about a year ago i use to say ''Fine'' and stroke her down her neck whilst still in the process then when i had finished the exercise she got a treat. you can wean her off treats very quickly.

I always give her a good stroke and sratch when she has done somethign right and say fine at the same time but i really am not sure if she really accepts this as something positive, because she ''shies'' away from you stroking her head. If you follw her she gives in after a while but one doesnt seem to be able to stroke her and really see it in her eyes and expression that she enjoys it.

Her field companions you can stroke and they half close their eyes...

[Yann]

A horse can be joined up with you and want to stick with you without having been through the join up process, it just happens gradually over a longer period of time but the end result is similar. The horse trusts you and wants to be with you, it's nice. The groundwork is saying follow me, so the horse says OK:) And the treats aren't the reason, a horse following you for titbits will generally make that very clear by attacking your pockets.

[floppy]

nosing in my pockets she only does if i stand there with my hands in my pockets. i can have a pocket full of her favourite munch and she will only nose at it if my hand is hiding in there. :D

[Yann]

LOL, yep, even getting a glove out gets a lot of interest:D

If she doesn't like being rubbed between the eyes, not all horses appreciate it, is there something else you can do to reward her and make her comfortable that she prefers, like scratching her neck? Between the eyes is supposed to be a good spot though as it's a part of their body they can't see so they're trusting you when you go there.

[floppy]

well her scratching rewards starts between the eyes, goes round to the cheeks down the neck, on the chest and on her tummy. she gets a good scratch and stroke. And on both sides!

She doesnt like it so much on her head..maybe she doesnt trust me enough. she just moves her head slightly away that you dont have contact anymore. but the yard owners 1 yr old baby is allowed to stroke her between the eyes :rolleyes:

elja does give kisses over the paddock door...comes over and nudges my nose very gently and breaths deeply