Deeper Seat?

[Emma_G_NZ]

I was just wondering..I have always ridden with short stirrups-then the other day i felt that i needed to let my stirrups down Two holes.Then I went and looked at photos of me with my new stirrup length and my legs dont look bent very much.The funny thing is that it is really comfortable!!Have i got a deeper seat?

[laurel]

It is good to try riding with longer stirrups. You r lucky you find it comfortable. My teacher has been making me do that cos i have been only riding with short stirrups till now. Im not used to it so i keep losing them. I have to develop a secure seat. It is more secure with longer stirrups. Before i lengthened them if my horse refused a jump i would go flying away. I know u r supposed to have shorter stirrups for jumping but my teacher said that until my seat is securer im keeping them long. Well thats me babbling away like a maniac. Hope i am helpful at all.:)

[floppy]

if you feel that you need to lengthen your stirrups after riding for so long with short stirrups because you kept loosign them then it means that you have unconsiouly learnt to distribute your weight properly sinking it into your heal:)

[Aztec]

I personally cannot get the hang of riding with longer stirrups, i know that if i persevere it will begin to feel normal but i dont feel secure whilst trying and i have been riding for years.

Is it just that i have never really stuck to it or maybe ive just got fuuny legs! lol

[floppy]

i ride with long stirrups..unless i go out hacking...but then i would be lying ..hehe i use a western saddle when i ride out in company so the stirrups are long anyway...but when i use my little gp saddle i always knotch the stirrup leathers up by one hole...but i only do that whilst hacking.
UNLESS i ride icelandic horses out in the woods..then you have long stirrups anyway one hole longer than i have for dressage on normal horses..

[fionahogg]

Hi. Please don't confuse a deep seat with actually physically sitting deeper in the saddle. A deep seat is when you move in time with the horse but are actually sat lightly in the saddle so you give room for the horse to move his back. Because you move in time with the horse the image given is one of sitting deeply. However if you do sit deeply and press your weight down into the saddle you will make it difficult for the horse to lift his back as he should when working well from behind.
Anyway it does sound like you have a good independent seat because you can lengthen your stirrup without loosing balance. Well done!

Fiona.

[Maisie]

Well, sometimes you can feel very comfy in the saddle in an armchair position. It's when your legs come in front of the shoulder-hip-heel line. I tried, it's really comfortable and at times you think you're secure, but you're really not. And when you sit like this you push your heel down and forward, so that you sometimes have to lengthen the stirrup. I'm not meaning you ARE in that position, but sometimes it gets us fooled! :) Also what Fiona says is right, a deep seat isn't really physically deep.

I used to ride really short, and I did encounter some difficulty giving aids. After that I switched to riding long, and in the end it just got me into more trouble since I couldn't balance properly, even after practising. Now I firmly believe a good stirrup length, which isn't too long or short is really important if you want to feel really secure (comfortable is another thing, but it shouldn't hurt too much) and be in balance - which will lead to a deep seat eventually.

Hope I helped! I'm no expert but I try my best! :D

[clip-clop-oops-crash]

ok heres my problem - becaue of riding my mare suzie (for those of you that havent heard of her - shes a total nutter - for any1 who has u should understand this!) i have developed a sort of perching position in the saddle bcause she spends so much time bucking + rearing etc. i know that sitting deep will help me stay with her better but im always have 2 b ready 4 her 2 just 'go' from underneath me + from this i can never really work 2 sit deep because i have 2 concentrate on what shes doing all the time! - what can i do? are there any exercises i could try? thanx

[Cas]

I think the first thing you should do is check *why* your mare is bucking and rearing, as I said to someone else on this board, horses don't do this just because they are a "nutter" or something, they are often in pain and they are shouting and no one is listening...

[aniukas]

:) it's funny....i can't ride with my stirrups short! it feels as if all of my leg and joints are crammed and my ankle is just about to break.... awful feeling... my trainer lengthened my stirrups to the so-called-"required dressage length" at the very first lesson and has me ride like that ever since. i feel horribly insecure i if have my stirrups short too. it seems as tho i rise 10in from the saddle to post the trot!

clip-clop:
i know what u mean by riding a hot horse and keeping your seat correct at the same time! it's impossible! do u have access to and school horses in the area? just some calm, level-headed animals that u can perfect your position on?

[Dizzy]

You shouldn't think of riding with longer stirrups as deepening your seat, as to lowering your centre of gravity. If you lengthen your stirrups you need to lengthen the contact your upper leg has with the horse. Riding without stirrups will help you do this, also when you get on lift your legs away from the saddle, point your knee towards the saddle and drop your leg as far down underneath you as you can, imagine you want your feet to touch the floor. You want your inner thigh in contact with the saddle and your knee sitting lower on the saddle.

When you ride with shorter stirrups, your centre of balance is higher, which is good for fast work or jumping if you can stay balanced. But for a good secure seat, you need to lower your centre of gravity and be able to remain in balance. Its keeping your legs underneath you thats hard, you'll only do this successfully if the right part of your thigh is in contact with the horse.

Hope this helps

Lesley

[Dizzy]

Clip clop, I know Suzie is unpredictable, and I know trying to be ready for what she might/probably will do may feel the best way forward. But you are really encouraging a bad reaction, because you don't trust her enough to sit relaxed and ride her normally, and are already anticipating a negative reaction.

I've never had experience with a horse that is as distressed and as untrusting as Suzie, though I have handled one or two badly abused horses. I found that working them inhand built a good and trusting relationship, then restarting totally, making sure they understood exactly what I was asking and taking many steps backwards now and then to get one good step forward. I did loads of inhand work, de-sensitised them to the whip, by stroking them all over with it (this alone took a long time, but I'm never in a hurry) mixed the work up, some days I'd school inhand, some days I'd walk them out, I'd also set up scary assault courses, I tried not to let them second guess me but kept the work consistant, confident, symathetic but firm. After I'd established trust, confidence and respect I began riding in an indoor school, then faced the riding problems with the help of a good instructor. I know I would not have been able to conquer some of the problems I faced on my own, an experienced pair of eyes on the ground is invaluable.

I hope you manage to win Suzie over but please becareful, as you've said yourself she's hurt you and others, behaviour like that is not easily resolved.


Lesley

[clip-clop-oops-crash]

thanx 2 every1's advice - + concern - suzie is not in any pain she has had 6 different vets 2 check her back, teeth etc. shes also had x-rays, scans + a holistic assessment all of which produced no result. shes just had a horrible past, with regards 2 retraining her i am currently in the proccess of that with her + have been doing a lot of groundwork especially recently as i cant ride + i have also 'joined up' (monty roberts) with her b4 + although she is still afraid a lot she is beginning 2 trust me now, she will come 2 me when i call her even when she is very frightened + she has started 2 look 2 me 4 reassurance of things instead of just panicing so all this is very encouraging! :D - i have other horses that i ride but none really that are very calm because they are competitipon horses really - or other abused horses i am working with :) i have talked 2 my instructor + she recommended i take a lunge lesson on her horse who is very well schooled so i think i will take up her offer but how should it 'feel' when i am in the right position? i know this sounds like a bit of a stupid question but the only horses i ride really r 'hot' like suzie or very young/ being broken so that i am always compensating for the horse! thanx! :D

[LindaAd]

I think you've answered your own question, clip-clop (do you mind if we don't put in the oops-crash every time?): if you have a lunge lesson and the instructor helps you find the correct position, then you'll know what it feels like.

[clip-clop-oops-crash]

thanx :) call me whatever u like....:D

[msp]

Hi clip-clop,

As to how it feals to be riding in a better position, expect it to feel awkward and odd! :)

BUT, it won't stay that way!

Mary Wanless does a good job of describing it in "For the good of the rider" - the problem is we get so used to positioning our body in a particular way, that if we really take notice of what the instructor says it WILL feel quite different and alien. On the other hand you should find when you get it right, and are not tense, it works much better!

Good Luck and have fun!

Mark (msp)
PS. I find it best to practise any changes somewhere really safe, until it feals normal, then gradually integrate them into hacking etc. Problem is if you are surprised by something, using longer stirups will be less secure if the extra length causes you to lose them.... On the other hand a deeper seat really helps when you get it right!

[Dizzy]

Clip Clop, glad to hear Suzie beginning to trust and respond to you, its very hard to break down barriers when you don't know whats caused them, when the problem is physical and you take away the pain (if possible) you can get down to riding and enjoying each other. Mental pain, distrust and insecurity are much harder to conquer, as you well know. I wish you both all the luck in the world and admire your perseverance.

Let us know how your lunge lesson goes, if your instructor doesn't know about Suzie, explain, and she should be able to instruct you, with your lesson aimed at helping you to position yourself and also help Suzie too. I first sought professional help because of a horse I rode that was very nervous, head shy, ultra sensitive and just 'lost the head' (I know you know what I mean).

With our first lesson (as I thought the lesson would be directed at the horse)I was appalled to learn that though the horse had major problems, so had my riding, that aswell as aggravated, but also caused some problems. I'm not putting you in the same category as myself, I'd never been taught how to ride, but had 'taught myself' which had been quite successful up until I met this horse.

MSP is right when he says that it may feel different for a while, I remember my instuctor regularly saying 'if you feel comfortable, your position is wrong', and that was so true, after riding for about 10 years in my old position, I found it very difficult to adopt the 'correct position', and found it hard to beleive that when I felt so uncomfortable and tense (though I had to be relaxed at the same time)as to how it would benefit either of us. But eventually it did the results were amazing. It made me wish I'd had 'correct lessons' years ago, though I found the experience very humbling, it made me just want to learn, learn, learn. I think you will be a far better rider than I was when I began lessons, but as I said earlier an experienced pair of eyes on the ground is invaluable.

Good luck, take care and keep us posted

Lesley

[clip-clop-oops-crash]

thanx every1 so much!! :D my instructor said i can take the lesson whenever i want + when i mentioned about my fingers (which were broken although now seem 2 b a lot more mobile + not so painful)she said not 2 worry about it bcause i wouldnt b using my hands.......so im just a little worried what shes got in store 4 me!! :eek: but i have known my instructor 4 about 3years + she understands the situation so hopefully she will b able 2 help me with my position :) also - had a v.progressive day 2day with suzie - i took her out 4 a walk in hand + she shied at sumthing in the hedge + when i told her it was ok + encouraged her past it SHE DID!! this is really big improvement as b4 she would just has bolted regardless of what was attached 2 her (me!)

[Dizzy]

Isn't that sense of achievement great! It's just he biggest reward for all your effort, time and patience.

One thing I do. Is sort of engineer a tricky situation. I use a lunge line, instead of a lead rope, so you don't loose them if they freak. I'll do something like place one or two filled black bin bags placed strategically along the route the horse is to be lead past, because you already know they are there you can ultra relaxed and talking to them before they see them, I also lead allowing them about 18 inches of rope before my main leading hand, this gives me the freedom to use my elbow to push/prod them over if they're in my space, and I think it gives them a little independance. I try instill the feeling that they are responsible for thier own actions. If they freak I try to remained really chilled out, bring them back round on a circle reassure them and ask them to walk forward.

Breeze my youngster is a confirmed shyer, she never does anything much or goes anywhwere, just startles suddenly by jumping a couple of feet in the air then carries on walking, giving who ever is leading her a heart attack. Though she's jumpy, She'll walk over the top and step on the big orange fertilizer sacks used for fertilizing fields, she's had all 4 feet on one regularly, You can also rub her all over with a black bin liner, for some reason she doesn't like aluminium step ladders, but I put a carrot on one of the wrungs and eventually temptation was just too much and she took the carrot, I got a friend to push the ladders over as we walked past, first time she jumped out of her skin, second time two or three rushed steps, after that just flicking ears. My next desensitising lesson for her is long reining her over the fertiliser sack I'll be interested to see how she reacts.

I have noticed with Breeze, that when someone tries to restrict the reaction she fights but given a little slack decides for herself that its no big deal. I've never myself tried to control her by 'hanging on to the rope' I've always worked on the fact that she's with out a doubt much stronger than me, I allow her make her own decisions, give enough slack for a reaction but use my elbow and lunge line to circle her back round to me.

Another thing I never allow is when they turn thier head away from you, leaving you with a strong,fixed inside shoulder. As soon as her head turns away I use my elbow on her shoulder and ask with the lunge line for the head to face in front. Also when their abit strong I clip the lunge line onto the inside noseband ring, this gives you a bit more unbalacing leverage, as you will pull the nose round, rather than pulling through the poll, which is much stronger.

Keep us posted about Suzie and your lunge lesson

Lesley

[clip-clop-oops-crash]

thanx :) i always lead any horse in a lunge line anyway b/c i find that then if anything happens u can distance yourself while maintaining control - also any1 who has trouble loading a horse should try using a line instead of a lead-rope - i used it on a particularly difficult stallion + as he could rear or whatever and still found that i was there asking him 2 load so he gave up + went up as quiet as ever since! went 4 a check-up on my fingers 2day + they said that they r healing much faster than they thought + i can start doing 'low-risk' activities soon - anything involving suze is out of the question then! ;)