laminitis and going bare foot

[eventerbabe]

hi all, sorry this is another bare foot post!!! my lamanitic currently has heart bars on the front and is barefoot behind. the hoof quality on her front feet is very, very poor (we are currently into the lamanitic growth) and her shoes are dropping off within 4 weeks. this causes her discomfort as the heart bar is no longer in the correct place. yesterday i had to resort to a hammer and screw driver to remove the offending shoe and she was happy as larry :) my question to lamanitic and barefoot owners is, is it ok to let her go barefoot?? my idea was leave the shoes off and invest in some Boa or old mac boots for turnout/exercise until we have grown out the poor quality hoof. have any lamanitic owners let theres go barefoot and what were the results?? also opinions on boots such as the Boa boots would be most appreciated :)

[Big Ears]

I am in the same position in that Rosie just got her lammy shoes in December so we are still in the growth out stage - however, she is keeping hers on ok and her hoof growth looks good - i.e. nice and strong. She had good feet before so that may be part of it - she is shod all round.

I will ask my farrier on Wednesday when he comes what he thinks. Rosie even before laminitis could not go barefoot, we tried her with shoes front only but she felt her feet and always sought out grass/soft ground/.

[eventerbabe]

Bonnie is keeping one shoe on, but the other is off within weeks. i'm worried coz shoeing does cause her a bit of discomfort, she's usually on bute for 3-4 days after. i'm also concerned with my farriers lack of care and attention to her feet. he isn't trimming enough off her toe and he didn't even bother rasping back her sole last time, just knocked new shoes on. i now can't get hold of him, he just seems to turn up when we leave him a phone message. all this is hampering her recovery. she's currently out with only 1 front shoe and seems fine! she even attempted to jump into our summer grazing, mad mare!! would be interesting to hear your farriers take on lamanitics and going without shoes :)

[Big Ears]

sounds like you need another farrier. mine has been excellent - he looks at her xrays and then trims accordingly, so he took an enormous amount off her toes as the foot looked ok, but when you saw the xrays and the bone angle, the toes were actaully really long.

for months he wouldn't put shoes on her, he just said give her another 6 weeks off as these feet are not ready for shoeing or work, she is still sensitive. Maybe yours isn't quite ready yet and it would be better to take the shoes off and wait another few months?

[Kris R]

It may help and give you some encouragement if you read the story of Fetra about an Arab mare who had a bad attack of laminitis, use the link below;

http://www.bitlessequitation.co.uk/sfcasehistory1.htm

or when on the site click on the Shoe Free button and then Case History

All of my ponies are barefoot and unfortunately, my little 11hh Welsh mare developed laminitis last year, first time ever. She remained barefoot during treatment and only required frog supports and regular trimming during the first 6 weeks. My farrier advised that if my mare had not been barefoot in the firstplace the prognosis may not have been so good. In some cirmumstances barefoot may be more beneficial but you would need to discuss this with your farrier and vet. Fortunately my vet and farrier are very objective and have open minds and give impartial advice.

By being barefoot my farrier was able to ensure my mare's toes, which have a tendancy to be too long were shortened to ensure her tendons were not under strain. He was also able to shape the foot to rebalance it and help the foot on it's way to recovery. Also this meant the frog had good contact with the ground and this, with the pads ensured circulation was restored. By keeping the ponies' barefoot the frogs are able to function correctly and this assists the circulation.

If the horn is weak I expect you have to ask yourself do you try to keep shoes on a weak foot or with the risk of the shoes falling off and the horse being uncomfortable or do you try to go barefoot to give the foot a chance to strengthen. There are some good supplements on the market to assist good horn growth.

I have to laugh at myself as before I decided to ditch the shoes I used to be convinced my ponies' legs would drop off if they didn't have shoes on ! silly I know :D

good luck

[Bebe]

Barefoot can work incredibly well for laminitics but you do need a very good trim in order for the hoof to rehabilitate itself. If you're happy with your farriers work in every way (other than the shoes coming off) then barefoot is definitely worth a try, particularly as she's already shown she's more comfortable out of the shoes than she has been with them.

Hoof boots are good but most aren't recommended for long periods of turnout, though if build up to it gradually then daily turnout should be fine. I have marquis boots which I like, though admittedly I haven't used them more than half a dozen times since Bebes shoes came off. I used Old Macs last year and they were okay, quite easy to put on and seemed comfy for Bebe though they weren't great in mud or for fast work. I haven't used Boas but know people who do and are happy with them.

[eventerbabe]

Big Ears, my farrier started off really well, he's the only one in my area the vet reccomends for remedial shoeing, but i suspect when i'm not there he lets his apprentice shoe her :mad: mum is phoning him today to have a chat so we shall wait and see what he says.

Thanks Kris R, i'd really like to just give her feet a break from shoes. i don't think its fair on her having to go through that every 6 weeks but our vets are adamant that shoes are the way forward, which i am begining to disagree with. i'm going in to speak with our vet this week, but she's had 2 vets treating her and each have differing opinions. we shall see how she copes without this missing shoe, she seems happy enough for now!

EDIT: thanks bebe. she would be wearing them for aprox 8-10 hours turnout. she's not really doing any work at the moment, just walking in hand. we have an equiboot but it rubs and comes flying off when she charges round the field. where can you buy the marquis boots? haven't heard of them.

[Bebe]

You can only get Marquis boots from the UK suppliers,

http://www.equestrianselect.co.uk/

They do a hire service now though which is good as quite often the boot which will suit your horse depends upon the horses hoof itself. Sometimes you can pick them up on Ebay. They are the most expensive boots at the moment but every single part of them is replaceable so in the long run they're much cheaper.

[Gill]

My Highland had L two years ago. She has never been shod since and is completely sound and working. I did not think it helpful to drive nails into already damaged hooves so looked at alternatives and my farrier agreed totally with keeping shoes off, though my vet was worried!

To begin with she was trimmed every couple of weeks, but the gaps got longer as she got better and finally the lammi toes grew down far enough to be trimmed off, and then all the hoof wall tubules grew straight again like magic. Her hooves are hard as nails now.

If you have lots of patience then go for it.

[eventerbabe]

Thanks Gill. our farrier is quite unhelpful. he never wants to discuss what may be better for her. it concerned me aswell that he seemed to be driving the nails very high up into her feet. last time the nails were about an inch from the top of her hoof, far higher than our previous, excellent, farrier ever nailed them. Bonnies back feet have certainly hardened up significantly since not having shoes on.

[cvb]

Eventerbabe

Duds just went shoeless the whole time - but I don't think he had any rotation - just ten million abcesses :eek: So the lack of shoes made it easier to poltice.

On top of this, he did absolutely zero work until his feet were pretty much completely grown out, so was off for quite a while.

When he came back into work, we started with him still shoeless - as he was just doing groundwork in our school. But then if we wanted to go out and about he was quite footy so he got shod again. He's been fine since tho' we're currently tracking him very closely as he had colic the other week so we're a bit worried about the grass :( He's back on very limited grazing.

[eventerbabe]

bonnie has slight rotation, think its about 3-5 degrees. and she's had some foundering, you can feel the dent above the coronet band. we really don't care how much time she has off. mum is out of action at the moment anyway coz of a dislocated shoulder that keeps having to be put back (she's mums pony really, i look silly on her :D ). i really don't think nailing the shoes into poor growth is doing her any good, but i don't want to have her go barefoot and get worse :(

[eventerbabe]

Farrier is coming to do bonnies feet today (we hope!!). she's coped brilliantly with only 1 shoe on the front so its something mum and i are going to speak to the vet about and get him to tell the farrier about. thanks for all the advice :)

[Gill]

I hope it went well for you. I sent you a pm.

[eventerbabe]

well, suprise suprise the farrier didn't turn up :mad: :mad: although he did phone my mum at 8pm last night to say his apprentices van had broken down and he'd be out thursday. so bonnie is now minus 1 shoe with the other one hanging off.

[martini55]

Is the other shoe loose enough to take off yourself? If it's really loose I'd be worried incase she hauled it off and did some damage to the foot. I think if she is happy barefoot then why not give it a try? For turnout she should be fine and it could help the with the circulation to the foot. You would probably need to invest in boots for riding her in though, at least until her feet are in better condition.

[eventerbabe]

hi martini, i will see this afternoon when i go to the yard. mums been on horse duty past 2 days. we had to remove the other shoe on saturday with a hammer and a screw driver!!! should really invest in some farrier tools if this is going to be a regular occurrence!! if its lose then its coming off coz they cause her more pain with the heart bar being in the wrong place.

[eventerbabe]

well, hopefully as we speak bonnie will be getting shod!!! she was looking distinctly sore on the hard stuff yesterday without the shoe and because she has foundered, the vet is reluctant to let her go bare foot. maybe we will stick with shoes a wee while yet :)

[martini55]

Is it heart-bars she has on? Is she hauling them off with her hind foot by any chance do you think? Maybe sticking on a pair of over-reach boots might help?

[eventerbabe]

martini, her feet are so crumbly that the hoof is just breaking off. i've had no end of problems with our farrier. he's missed three appointments and last night i just snapped and have a new (highly reccomended) farrier coming today.

[martini55]

Hope you get on better with this farrier, let us know what they say.