Trailers, Lorries and Vans

[GoingStraight]

I am thinking about buying one of those van type lorries - usually they have day living and can travel 2 horses facing backwards. I only ever travel one horse at a time and so a big lorry seems a bit excessive - I probably stable overnight 4 or 5 times a year.

Currently I have a range rover and ifor williams 510 trailer. I've changed the car a couple of times, but have had the trailer from new for 5 years now and it's been super. Whenever I've stabled away from home, I've just bunked down in the trailer and it's been great.

I have been hankering after a lorry for a while now but it just seems an awful lot - lot of money and lot of vehicle. I'm wondering whether one of the smaller van type lorries would be a good middle ground.

I have a 16.3 warmblood - he's quite long but as I'd only ever be travelling one horse, I should beable to adjust the partition to fit him in comfortably. Presumably these van types will come in high enough headroom? Does anyone have one? I've heard only good things about them so anyone who knows of any pros and/or cons - I'd be very interested to hear.

Hope you can help!
GoingStraight

[Jessey]

Hi GoingStraight, Personally I would never consider one of these tiny lorrys for a horse (small ponies maybe), the chasis of a transit or the equivilant (which is what most of these are built on) is only meant to carry about 3.5 tonnes and with all the body and living etc it really dosen't leave you much to play with to put a horse on (although I have heard that they get 'up-rated' but can't see this is the best answer) also they are narrow (compared to any lorry meant to carry load) and high (compared to a trailer of the same width) which makes me worry about the possibility of overturning (esp with a tall horse). When we investigated this was the conclusion we came to (and my OH is a lorry/HGV mechanic), we ended up sticking with our trailer for the mean time as it is cheeper to maintain and keep generally and the money we save can go towards a B&B for a night if we need it. We did look at one transit with an ifor williams box on it but when we got in and moved around in the back we walked away immediatly, it was just scary how much it rocked around.
Sorry to put a dapener on this for you :(

J

[eventerbabe]

I've been told the same as jessey i'm afraid. we have a family friend who builds lorries and when i was speaking to him about us getting a lorry, he said we would be struggling with my 15.2hh and 13.3hh in a smaller van-type lorry. i'm now looking at trailers as a slightly larger lorry would blow my limited budget completely. have you seen the equi trek trailers? they have living and are gorgeous :)

[Lgd]

3.5T lorries - no, they can just about cope with one horse but you won't get any living space worth talking about.

You can get 5.5t and 6.5T small horseboxes which will take two horses happily and give you a decent living area and give you enough room without being huge to drive. I appreciate price-wise they will be more than you are looking to spend but have a look at the Theault horseboxes to get an idea of what I mean.

FWIW my advice would be to get a 7.5T 2 or 3 horse with a decent living area. Tack lockers are a bonus. I now spend quite a few nights away and could not go back to a smaller horsebox and would not even entertain a trailer any more. You can pick up a nice tidy box for around 10K and by spending a little more could get something new on a 'not new' chassis. Cavtec in Northumberland do nice boxes - and new builds start around £16K

It costs me less to have a decent box than it did the trailer/towing vehicle. It is far easier to drive - mine is really light to drive.

Costs: £165 pa road tax
Insurance - I have 5000 miles a year limit on mine (you can get lower limits as well) which cuts it down. For a 15K value box I'm paying £250 fully comp, two drivers.
Breakdown/Rescue: £100 pa and worth every penny of it.
Annual plate: around £45
Servicing: can get expensive, but we have a tame mechanic who is very quick and doesn't overcharge. Worst bill I've had at one time was £650 but that was with a new master cylinder on the brakes which is pricey. Ours is a 15yo chassis so we are getting niggly little problems like corroded pipes - total bill for maintenance over the last 12 months is around £1200 BUT that does include the master cylinder and someone blowing the fuel injectors (Lgd looks innocent at this point :D ).

On the plus side - harder to pinch (we have an immobiliser on ours).
You can get away comfortably with a smaller and cheaper car - in fuel/repairs/purchase cost/road tax etc. - I have a 1.3L petrol, 5 door, 4WD car that does 40mpg but gives me ample room for tack, feed etc.

[Willingbe]

I have no experience of 3.5ton vans but after browsing the websites the only one I would even consider going to see is the Ashfield Duet. It sits fairly low so there shouldn't be any more problems with sway then the horse would experience in a trailer, but the living is very basic.

www.ashfieldcoachworks.co.uk

Otherwise, I'd second Lgd, I did the math on lorry v trailer and figured it would cost me more in fuel to run a 4-track for a year than the lorry would cost me in maintenance, tax and fuel. Lgd's figures match mine within a couple of hundred.

Are you concerned with handling a large lorry? Most have power steering and are very easy to drive and manouevre. I can handle the ramp on my own without problems and my horse loves the view out of the windows :D

[GoingStraight]

Sorry to put a dapener on this for you :(

:) S'ok! I would far, far, far rather hear these things now than after I'd parted with my pennies!

Thansk for the tips

[GoingStraight]

FWIW my advice would be to get a 7.5T 2 or 3 horse with a decent living area. Tack lockers are a bonus. I now spend quite a few nights away and could not go back to a smaller horsebox and would not even entertain a trailer any more.
Is that a van thing still?

You can pick up a nice tidy box for around 10K and by spending a little more could get something new on a 'not new' chassis. Cavtec in Northumberland do nice boxes - and new builds start around £16K
Sounds okay.

It costs me less to have a decent box than it did the trailer/towing vehicle. It is far easier to drive - mine is really light to drive.

That's it. I've a Range Rover and suddenly thought I'm going about this the wrong way - rather than think I'm doing the cheap thing but go off and buy a very expensive tow car, I could buy a lorry or van type thing. I commute 60 miles a day to work and so I have a small car as well anyway. Your prices aren't too dissimilar to those for my range rover except the insurance is a lot more! I already pay horsebox recovery insurance.

Thanks very much - so what do you have, what type/make?

Cheers, GoingStraight (up the motorway!! ha ha!) :)

[GoingStraight]

Are you concerned with handling a large lorry? Most have power steering and are very easy to drive and manouevre. I can handle the ramp on my own without problems and my horse loves the view out of the windows :D

I am a bit worried about driving a big lorry. I've only driven one once, but it was a monster journey and I must admit, I was :eek: driving in the wind on the motorways and I was a bit scared... The steering also seemed sooo vague... And they are so big and so wide...

And the whole lorry buying thing just seems such a nightmare. I thought I'd beable to buy a new build van thing for the same as it looks like a nice lorry would be. I'd be thinking I'd need to keep about £20-22k for a lorry (not a new build) but about £16k for a van type thing.

It still worries me that my trailer is "free" and is always ready to go! The car costs a lot to keep running although I like it very much - it's far and away the best tow car I've ever had. I might spend more money on one thing (a lorry) than I have ever ever spent on anything (other than a house) in my entire life, then find it won't go. I need to get over it, I guess.

What do I dooooooo? :( :o

[GoingStraight]

have you seen the equi trek trailers? they have living and are gorgeous :)
I have and yes they are lovely, but you need a heck of a tow car to pull them. So, I still need to have an expensive car to pull it with, I still have a car/trailer outfit but I suppose I would gain day living. I don't really fancy one and if I'm honest, it was looking at those that made me first start thinking I'd be better off with a van or lorry.

I do compete most weekends, but only 5 times kipping away from home.

Hmmm!
:)

[eventerbabe]

i think it really depends on your budget. if you can afford a new build, or relatively new lorry then they are probably a better investment. an older lorry (like an old car) has a greater risk of things breaking down, especially if it hasn't been well maintained. if and when i have the money, a lorry would be my preferred choice.

if you can stretch to 15-16k i know someone selling a new build (on R-reg lorry) luxury lorry in aberdeenshire. 3 horse i think. despite months of badgering my dad won't buy it :mad:

[GoingStraight]

if you can stretch to 15-16k i know someone selling a new build (on R-reg lorry) luxury lorry in aberdeenshire. 3 horse i think. despite months of badgering my dad won't buy it :mad:
Really? A new build one? Crikey, doesn't that seem cheap? Maybe they're leaving the living unfitted? Which, by the way, is something I'm totally happy with!!

Hmmm...

<GoingStraight tips up the piggy bank>

[eventerbabe]

its an R-reg chassie (sp!!) but low mileage, and my parents friend has built the lorry onto it. when i last spoke to him it was going to be a pretty deulux model, fitted living, 3 horses etc. he's been building them for years, used to only do small, cheap lorries but says that doesn't really pay so he's gone into more upmarket lorries.

[GoingStraight]

its an R-reg chassie (sp!!) but low mileage, and my parents friend has built the lorry onto it. when i last spoke to him it was going to be a pretty deulux model, fitted living, 3 horses etc. he's been building them for years, used to only do small, cheap lorries but says that doesn't really pay so he's gone into more upmarket lorries.

Can you pm me with who it is and where? Do you know what sort of lorry? Gosh, suddenly full of questions!

Mind you, I'll start worrying as soon as I've to drive it down the little roads again...!

Grrr - gerroverit! :o

[eventerbabe]

i will PM you!

[Lgd]

I have a Ford Iveco 815 turbo chassis - the extra power is a big bonus on hills. I've just done a run from Oxfordshire (Chipping Norton) to South West Durham (West Auckland) in just over 4½ hours - comfortably sat on 55 - 60mph pretty much all the way home for the dual carriageway/motorway sections, touch slower or faster in places - my average speed worked out about 48mph for the trip. Haven't worked out my fuel consumption for the trip yet, but it is usually around 18 mpg, drops to about 15mpg if I put a third fatty in the back and have a few steep hill climbs.

It takes 3 big horses (up to 18hh). It is an aluminium coachbuilt, think we're about 18ft long, 11'6" high, 8'6" wide (wider than normal herringbone design, they are usually around 7 - 7'6"). Unladen is around 4.5T with a 7.5T MGW. Moderate size living - sleeps two comfortably, three OK, four at a push. Two fitted seats, table, sink (hot & cold), gas oven (has grill and hob as well) cupboards, fridge with dinky freezer compartment (runs off gas, battery or gnereator/mains), split charger for the electric (means you don't flatten the vehicle battery!) no tack locker which is a bit of a pain but as we generally only travel two at a time we use the partition next to the living for tack etc. Cut through to cab and you can access the horses from the living. If you want to use the living for people to travel in you have to have cab access (legal requirement), if that is not an issue, then separate cab is OK.

[Zingy]

I've got a 3.5tonne van and it's fantastic! You have to be careful with the design - don't consider anything that doesn't travel them between the axels and with a 16.3 you'd need one of the posher ones (like the Ashfield, though there are some cheaper ones as well). Forget the ones that look like van conversions as they wouldn't give you enough room.

I travel both of mine - combined weight about 800kg. I have a carrying weight of about 1200kg and it's well distributed. The horses travel brilliantly and one of them is not a great traveller. I'd recommend them any day and figure they're the best design you can get. I wouldn't swap it for anything bigger. And they're so easy to drive.

[larri]

Zingy what sort do you actually have?

[GoingStraight]

Thanks Lgd and Zingy for lorry/van specs. I'm wavering towards lorry now, given that my horse is 16.3 and quite long. However, I'm still not entirely sure where all the money will come from... :(

Range Rover and 510 trailer package anyone?? Got a 400cc motorbike in the mix there, too!

:D

Thanks for help everyone - anyone who knows of underpowered lorry types or nice lorry types, the more info the better!!

Thanks a lot everyone!
GoingStraight

[Zingy]

Zingy what sort do you actually have?

Larri, it's a Marlborough - website (http://www.marlboroughhorseboxes.co.uk/)

There are very often one or two in horse & hound for sale second hand. There's a few other places do very similar ones - Staffordshire horseboxes, Huish, Dereham and Ashfield (I think Dereham and Ashfield only do the bigger boxes though).

[teegee]

Someone mentioned the Theault - we have one and I could not recommend more highly.
The Theault is an excellent 2 horse. The Renault van is made for Theault – so not the same as a conversion built onto a Renault chassis – as many of the others are.
Horses face rearwards – accepted as being the least stressful way for horse to travel. Stability is superb. Space is also ample. Each stall is 37” wide and floor to head height is 7’4”. Unladen weight of our lorry is 2500 kg.
Fully padded partitions and headspace.
We use it to transport particularly valuable horses. This horse was collected in Germany this week - he is a 16.3 extremely valuable dressage horse (sadly not ours!). Would not use it if we did not have full confidence in the suitability of these little lorries.
If you would like to see a few photos of inside – links here:
Theault (http://photobucket.com/albums/v671/pamandcharles/Transport/th_1000000-dressage-horse.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://photobucket.com/albums/v671/pamandcharles/Transport/th_Dressage-horse-germany.jpg)
Picture 3 (http://photobucket.com/albums/v671/pamandcharles/Transport/th_Loading-Germany2.jpg)

[Zingy]

Someone mentioned the Theault - we have one and I could not recommend more highly.[/URL]


They are absolutely fantastic. Bit pricey though, I got a brochure off them and it was £25K for a second hand one :eek: (and there were only 2 second hand). Can easily spend over £35-40K on one :eek: :eek:

[agent_pineapple]

I can agree entirely with the recommendation for Theault. I have driven a Theault for 3 years and never had any trouble with it. My horses travel better than they have in anything else, it is superb to drive and gives a very stable ride to the horses. They are at the top of the price range but we got a very good finance deal and it is worth every penny, particularly looking at their second hand values.

In answer to the misinformed expert who recommends trailers, the statistics on trailer accidents are shocking, I would never put a horse near one personally. Although the comment on van chassis is correct I checked this and all Theault boxes are built on platform cabs which are tested to 4.5 tons, we also found them to be lighter than any other 2 horse on the market. I drive mine across the channel regularly and can tell you this is confirmed by the weighbridge at the port. In addition the horses have plenty of room (our 17-hand fits very well).

The other advantage to this type of vehicle is it can be driven on a car licence with none of the inflated costs of running a larger lorry.

Overall verdict - expensive to buy but retain value, are cheap to run, drive brilliantly and horses love it. Have tried most others over the years and this is the best by far!

[eventerbabe]

In answer to the misinformed expert who recommends trailers, the statistics on trailer accidents are shocking, I would never put a horse near one personally.

theres no need to be rude. i've used trailers for many years and not had a problem. as have many of my friends. people were only giving their own personal opinions on the matter. not everyone has the budget for a lorry.

EDIT: from doing a quick google on the subject of trailer accidents, most are a result of poor maintenance of a trailer.

[DITZ]

My sentiments exactly and you beat me to it because i was busy re-reading the entire thread trying to find this so called 'expert'!!

By the way agent_pineapple, what are the statistics on trailers?

[DITZ]

hey eventerbabe is that because only poor people have trailers and they cant afford to maintain them?? ;)

(ps - this is a to anyone ready to pounce! I am a trailer owner!)

[eventerbabe]

i really don't know :confused: didn't elaborate much on the sites i found. some of the wealthiest people i knew in PC had a trailer :D i'm with you on this one DITZ,lorries are nice (and will get one when i win the lottery!!), but i'd much rather have an equitrek any day :D

[MeMe]

Personally I think either can be just as dangerous.

People tend to forget basic checks on each of them, I've seen people driving around in lorries that you know there is no way they are legal and trailers without proper braking systems etc.

I have a lorry, but only through chance, I used to have a trailer, downfall is my big horse wont travel in a trailer, he is a pain on the lorry and he would more than likely tip a trailer or go through it.

But Im just lucky enough to have a lorry and use of a friends one at the mo, but I quite like the Equitrek trailers, and you dont really need much more to tow them with, I see lots of them out with normal Land Rover's etc and Shoguns.

Personally, and this is just my personal opinion I wouldent touch any van type box with a bargepole, I know nothing about them, and I dont want to know, but thats my opinion, Im also not a fan of alot of the 3.5t lorries, they end up overloaded, and some of them are horrible to drive, as they become top heavy.

[teegee]

Originally Posted by MeMe
Personally I think either can be just as dangerous.

People tend to forget basic checks on each of them, I've seen people driving around in lorries that you know there is no way they are legal and trailers without proper braking systems etc.

Agree with MeMe on this. There is also the factor of how trailers are driven. The reason I mentioned the “Theault” is that it is constructed differently from the usual box van conversions. I was not comparing a Theault with a trailer. Personally I am quite happy with a trailer – we use an Ifor Williams for short distances - and would not be without it.

We regularly transport horse all over Europe and run one 18 horse Artic. two 10/11 horse rigids, one 4 horse 7.5T and the 2 horse Theault. All but the Theault are on air suspension. I believe that horses travel best in either the artic or the Theault. The artic has no element of "lean" on corners - which makes it better than a rigid. The Theault (although not on air is very stable) and is the only one that carries horses facing towards the rear - which has been shown to cause the least stress to horses in transit wherefore forward facing is actually the least favourible. We will always use it to carry any horse that is known to be a bad traveller.

Obviously we are judging the lorries on travelling very long distances - for our own travel to shows etc. there is little difference (except the artic will not fit through most show entrances!) and there are huge differences in running costs. The artic does 10 miles to a gallon down to the Theault at about 26 to the gallon.

I would agree that many van conversions leave a lot to be desired - I just wanted to point out that the Theault vans are different to most of these - and are not conversions. You will find that a lot of studs and racing stables also use these because they travel horses so well. We have been so impressed with this little lorry we are getting Theault to build the next 10 horse.

Sorry for the long rant! At the end of the day I think for most people's purposes the best thing to have is what you are happiest driving!