How old should horse be when backed? Jumping?

[friedegund]

Hello,

I recently have started leasing a friend's young horse, he is turning three on Thursday. He is a appendix quarterhorse, stands 14.2 hh right now.

Last summer we did quite a bit of groundwork and have started hacking out on trails. He is very forward, absolutley loves to hack not spooky at all. Carries my weight well (i weigh about 120 pounds) and seems very well balanced.

I know nothong about training a young horse, but had ridden as a youngster/teen and at 36 last fall started taking lessons again. I have a rubber snaffle on him. My friend is just now working on her ring, so have not been able to do much schooling yet, I quess my question is how much hacking is ok? We do the odd canter, trot alot (because he is SUCH a trotting machine!)

An hour at a time is how long we stay out, have only been out half dozen times so far, but ground is drying up niicley, would a nightly hack be ok if possible???

What about jumping, how old should a horse be before introduced to jumping?

Also, how to upload a large(ish) pic?

[galadriel]

I wouldn't be riding a horse before the age of three. I wouldn't be riding a three year old for an hour at a time. I wouldn't suggest jumping before about 4.5 to 5.

[trainer_girl]

most horses that i have been around have been started at the age of 2 or a few months before. when it comes to how long you should be rideing, as long as the horse is fit and health, an hour or so a day is fine depending on what you are doing.

[jUmPingIsLifE]

i definatly wouldn't get on a horse until age 2. most people on this board will say 3 or 4. since more on here are from the UK and its more common over there to see horses started at 4 where as here (usa, up in New England) most are started at 2. 3 would probably be a better age i would think, the horse isn't done growing quite yet but has developed pretty good both physicall and mentall (depending on the horse) more at 3 then 2!

edit: forgot the jumping part- 4 to start jumping, trotting poles, small cross rails small simple cources pretty low verticals nothing to big and hard. a little more at 5 but i wouldn't jump to much over 3' until a horse is around 6. That is how i am doing things with Tahoe at least, i want him to last for a long time :D

[makebelieve]

It all depends on the horses/trainers in your area. The ones up here are started at 2-3 years old, and they start jumping around 4-5.

My friend's horse is only 3, they ride him once a week for an hour long lesson with small jumps. I think this is a bit much for him, but I don't control it. Another friend of mine has a 3 year old, but jumps it over large jumps at this age.

Another factor would be the breed. Do they mature physically and mentally, slowly or more quickly?

[Tangle]

I'd be with Galadriel and not riding him so much right now. I saw a link to an article that went into detail that I now can't find - but the gist was that every single bone in a horse has growth plates, which represent that section of the bone that grows. The ones in the legs are the ones most people focus on, and they tend to stop growing around three. But there are also growth plates in all the bones in your horse's back, neck, pelvis, etc and, as a general guide, the closer they are to the head the later they do their growing. So those bones in the back and neck that you are asking to carry your weight are the very ones that are immature longest.

If it were me I wouldn't ride him for more than 10 or 15 minutes a day, and then mainly in walk on a loose rein. Do you know how to long rein? Sounds like he'd be more than able for an hours long reining around the hack route. That would give him the exercise, the experience and the variety without putting his bones under so much pressure yet (plus it gets you REALLY fit ;))

[chev]

It doesn't depend on the trainer. Horses don't mature any faster just because a trainer starts them earlier.

Echo Galadriel.

Would just like to add that however many horses backed at 2 manage somehow to survive without permanent and irreversible damage to their limbs and backs, there are still just as many (if not more) who don't. I know first hand how much harm can be done - I own a gelding, backed at 2, who as a direct result of this early start sustained joint damage bad enough to mean he has arthritis at seven.

[Loopslou]

an hour seems quite long especially with trotting. Amber is four and she still tires quite easily (she's just over 4) so at the moment I'm just starting to stretch my hacks out to 45 mins to an hour and that is only with a little trotting.

As regards schooling around half an hour should be fine (to include warm up and cool down), not too many tight circles either and don't canter for the first few weeks until you have walk and trot and transistions between the two perfected. 2 sessions of around 15 mins would actually be better say one in the morning and one at night and then stretch them out by around 5 mins every few weeks. Once you are able to school don't spend every waking hour in the school as the horse will become bored witless! Loads of gentle hacking and maybe 1 to 2 school half hours schooling a week.

As for jumping hold off until at least 4.5 although the odd loose jumping session probably wouldn't go a miss and don't lunge for any great length of time either - its really hard on the joints of a young horse.

Good luck!

[shandy84]

I have two three year olds Shandy is nearly four though, I would personally not jump before four closer to four and a half to five would be my preference, in regards to the amount of work you're doing, Bramble cannot maintain that level of work, we went out for an hour and a half the other day and she was far too pooped really so we'll be sticking to half hour workouts for a while yet. Bramble gets ridden three times a week at absolute max (this was in prep for a dressage test now down to once or twice) and Shandy is nearly four and is ridden every other day for thirty mins to fourty five mins she can cope with slightly longer hacks though.

Perhaps if you want to hack for that long you could walk the whole way or you could jump of half way round to give pony a break then hop back on a bit later when she's a bit more recovered.

[Loopslou]

for an example I worked Amber for 20 mins in the sandschool tonight and because it had been so wet here the going was hard and she was pooped after that and that was only walking! I mean that the going was so soft that she found it hard to walk in, not that it had been wet and therefore the ground was hard if you see what I mean :D

[galadriel]

I saw a link to an article that went into detail that I now can't find

I bet you're thinking of the Dr. Deb Bennett article that's floating around, which is pretty good. However, I never see "reproduced with permission of author" on those articles, so I went to her own website to see if she's got it there. And oh boy, does she! With bells on. It's much, much more involved than the one I have seen before, with a large number of diagrams too. I'll give the link, then some specific excerpts that are relevant to this discussion.
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge/ranger/ranger.html

The Schedule of Growth-Plate Conversion to Bone
* Short pastern – top and bottom between birth and 6 months.
* Long pastern – top and bottom between 6 months and one year.
* Cannon bone – top and bottom between 8 months and 1.5 years
* Small bones of the knee – top and bottom of each, between 1.5 and 2.5 years
* Bottom of radius-ulna – between 2 and 2.5 years
* Weight-bearing portion of glenoid notch at top of radius – between 2.5 and 3 years
* Humerus – top and bottom, between 3 and 3.5 years
* Scapula – glenoid or bottom (weight-bearing) portion – between 3.5 and 4 years
* Hindlimb – lower portions same as forelimb
* Hock – this joint is “late” for as low down as it is; growth plates on the tibial and fibular tarsals don’t fuse until the animal is four (so the hocks are a known “weak point” – even the 18th-century literature warns against driving young horses in plow or other deep or sticky footing, or jumping them up into a heavy load, for danger of spraining their hocks).
* Tibia – top and bottom, between 3 and 3.5 years
* Femur – bottom, between 3 and 3.5 years; neck, between 2.5 and 3 years; major and 3rd trochanters, between 2.5 and 3 years
* Pelvis – growth plates on the points of hip, peak of croup (tubera sacrale), and points of buttock (tuber ischii), between 3 and 4 years.

….and what do you think is last? The vertebral column, of course. A normal horse has 32 vertebrae between the back of the skull and the root of the dock, and there are several growth plates on each one, the most important of which is the one capping the centrum. These do not fuse until the horse is at least 5 ½ years old (and this figure applies to a small-sized, scrubby, range-raised mare. The taller your horse and the longer its neck, the later the last fusions will occur. And for a male – is this a surprise? – you add six months. So, for example, a 17-hand Thoroughbred or Saddlebred or Warmblood gelding may not be fully mature until his 8th year – something that owners of such individuals have often told me that they “suspected”).
[...]

The lateness of vertebral “closure” is most significant for two reasons. One: in no limb are there 32 growth plates! Two: the growth plates in the limbs are (more or less) oriented perpendicular to the stress of the load passing through them, while those of the vertebral chain are oriented parallel to weight placed upon the horse’s back. Bottom line: you can sprain a horse’s back (i.e. displace the vertebral physes – see Figs. 5 and 8) a lot more easily than you can displace those located in the limbs.
[...]

Many people today – at least in our privileged country – do not realize how hard you can actually work a mature horse – which is very, very hard. But before you can do that without significantly damaging the animal, you have to wait for him to mature, which means – waiting until he is four to six years old before asking him to carry you on his back.

What bad will happen if you put him to work as a riding horse before that? Two important things – and probably not what you’re thinking of. What is very unlikely to happen is that you’ll damage the growth plates in his legs. At the worst, there may be some crushing of the cartilages, but the number of cases of deformed limbs due to early use is tiny.
[...]

[...]the old, traditional, worldwide view: introduce the horse to equipment (all kinds of equipment and situations) when he’s two, crawl on and off of him at three, saddle him to begin riding him and teaching him to guide at four, start teaching him maneuvers or the basics of whatever job he’s going to do – cavalletti or stops or something beyond trailing cattle – at five, and he’s on the payroll at six. The old Spanish way of bitting reflected this also, because the horse’s teeth aren’t mature (the tushes haven’t come in, nor all of the permanent cheek teeth either) until he’s six.

This is what I’d do if it were my own horse. I’m at liberty to do that because I’m not on anybody else’s schedule except my horse’s own schedule. I’m not a participant in futurities or planning to be. Are you? If you are, well, that’s your business. But most horse owners aren’t futurity competitors. Please ask yourself: is there any reason that you have to be riding that particular horse before he’s four?
[...]

[T]he Thoroughbred was invented in the late 17th century by James II of England, who instigated the world’s first performance testing for horses. The king’s object was to induce his subjects to produce a horse that could carry speed over a distance of ground. To achieve this objective, he set forth the following rules and invited all the noblemen and horse breeders to bring any horse they thought could win under the following conditions:

1. The horses shall run four miles (over undulating terrain, on turf), and the winner shall be recorded.
2. They shall then rub for half an hour.
3. They shall then run a second heat of four miles, and rub for half an hour.
4. They shall then run a final heat of four miles, and the overall winner will be the best two of three.
5. The horses shall carry 80 stone apiece (approximately 160 lbs.).

Breeding horses that could meet and exceed these requirements is what created the world’s greatest equine athlete – the Thoroughbred.

Where are all the four mile races today? They began to go extinct shortly after the “futurity” concept was invented, in the late 19th century – not because racing mature horses four or twelve miles is cruel (as is sometimes claimed today), but because futurities were invented as a marketing ploy to give prospective bettors and investors a peep at what was supposedly coming up from the studs.

Those old horsemen knew that you can’t run a two- or three-year-old four miles; you’d kill him. So they shortened the distance to something between 7/8ths and 2 miles. Betting interest in these races was so great – the marketing ploy worked – that they simply outcompeted the longer “standard” races by becoming the contests that best fed the tracks. Today, though, this has been forgotten, so that many perfectly well-intentioned investors simply do not know that a three year old is not a mature horse and that two year olds have absolutely no business whatsoever at the racetrack (if all the two year olds were taken off the track tomorrow, 90% of the illegal drugs and training techniques would disappear tomorrow, too).

---

There's more. Lots more. Check out the link:
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge/ranger/ranger.html

[chev]

What is very unlikely to happen is that you’ll damage the growth plates in his legs. At the worst, there may be some crushing of the cartilages, but the number of cases of deformed limbs due to early use is tiny.

Which is exactly what happened to Gelfy. The damage to the cartilege in his stifles and hocks has basically meant he has early onset arthritis - not deformed limbs. Eventually the damage to his joints will result in so little good cartilege surviving that the pain he'll be in will mean the only option will be to have him PTS.

[Wally]

Icelandics are not started until they are in the autumn of their 4th year as a general rule, brought back in the spring of their 5th year and taken from there.

Randalín and Sæla were both late maturers in their heads, so we left them to grow up mentally. Randalín is 7 this year and it's her first year of being ridden for an hour at a time.

Winnie is 3 this year, shge won't be touched until next autumn....she's a bit of an airhead too, so she might have to grow into her head before we can work sense.

[Tangle]

I bet you're thinking of the Dr. Deb Bennett article that's floating around, which is pretty good. However, I never see "reproduced with permission of author" on those articles, so I went to her own website to see if she's got it there. And oh boy, does she! With bells on. It's much, much more involved than the one I have seen before, with a large number of diagrams too.
http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge/ranger/ranger.html
I knew I'd read it somewhere :D (although for some reason the bit that stuck in my mind was that on breeding :o). Definitely more detailed than the version I'd seen as well. Very interesting......

[hApPiNeSs]

hmm the 3 year old miniture pony that i help look after loves a little jump in hand. Shes fully grown, and the jumps are not strenuous :D

We decided to do this becasue she was getting bored and stressed in the field all the time. and a little challenge a few times a week has really calmed her down. also sometimes i lead her out on hacks, which she likes, but it can be painful because the little bugger double barrels me! :D

[friedegund]

Thank you so much for the info!!!!

I have only started hacking him, and during the hour, dismounted and walked probably around 20 minutes. I will cut it back, and found the information from Dr. Bennett VERY informative! Definately printing that put and sharing.

I thought that 5 was good age for jumping, and shared that with my friend from whom I lease Drake.

I live in Canada, and frequent a website called Atlantic Rider, they have a huge classified section, and it is unbelievable the number of horses backed at 2. I was surprised, because I think that is WAY too young.

Thanks again, I love this board!

[Keket]

I live in Canada, and frequent a website called Atlantic Rider, they have a huge classified section, and it is unbelievable the number of horses backed at 2. I was surprised, because I think that is WAY too young.

You visit Atlantic Rider? Are you from the Maritimes? :) Sorry if I'm being nosy, lol.

[Harleyhorse]

You need to remember that when it says "backed" it doen't mean(well most of the time) that the horse is broke. When they say backed the mean shomeone has sat on the horse and accepted it.

But I think a horse should be backed at 2, just cause it good to get them used to stuff young, but then not "worked" much till there allmost 4. We don't start jump training till there 5.

[chev]

Why do you think a horse should be backed at two? What possible benefits do you think there are? Putting weight on his back immediately means you are risking damage to his back. Do please read Galadriel's post and the Dr Deb Bennet article - it explains quite clearly why backing at two is a seriously bad idea.

There's plenty you can do with a two year old to get them 'used to stuff' that doesn't involve risking their physical health. And from a training point of view, it's far better to leave training until later - a horse will respond far better to training if he's not just physically ready for it, but also mentally. A two year old is not mentally capable of work - that's why so many horses backed this early later start to become very difficult horses.

Too much too young is the easiest way to make things harder for both trainer and horse.