Safety Stirrups ... the bendy ones!

[AmandaD]

Hi everyone

Had my third lesson on Sunday on an absolutely gorgeous dapple grey named Storm who I'd been dying to ride. All went well to begin with until about half way through the lesson my right leg/foot kept collapsing on me. Storm's saddle had safety stirrups, which I'd noticed at the beginning of the lesson but hadn't really thought much of it. (I'd always ridden in the traditional stirrups before).

Anyway, half way through the lesson my leg kept trembling and I didn't have any control over it! I thought I could cope for the rest of the lesson, until I was asked to canter. Managed the transition ok, but during the canter I lost total control of my (trembling) leg and my foot slipped out of the stirrup, so my leg came away from Storm's side and he decided to trot!. Not his fault - all mine as no leg = no canter!). By this point, my balance was already poor and I found myself forward in the saddle, which caused my other foot to come out of the stirrup! I don't know how - I must've looked a right sight! I was trying to cling on for dear life but my leg muscles arn't what they used to be (10 year break from riding) so ended up falling off! :eek:

Poor Storm. Think he was quite slightly spooked by it; he looked worried - like he'd done something wrong, but managed to get him calm, get back on and give him a hug and told him it wasn't his fault!

In my other 2 lessons I'd been on horses that had the traditional stirrups and my instructor said that they were phasing in these safety stirrups for all their horses (good move and I do understand why they are doing it) and that some people tended to put their weight on the outside of the stirrup for support when riding, which you can't do with these safety ones because of the bend in them (all those years of riding as a youngster and I never knew I'd been cheating!).

Looks like I'm just going to have to get used to it. I don't want to change schools over something so minor. Its a great school; all the horses are wonderful (but Storm's particularly a babe - I AM in love!) and the instructors are really nice.

Point is, having another lesson after work tomorrow night (I've asked for Storm) and I am worried that I won't have any control again. :( Please help! Anyone have any similar experience with these stirrups? and if so, can someone please give me any advice on how to overcome the problem? Think it might just be a case of getting my leg muscles in order, but thought I'd throw the question out there anyway!

P.S. Did do another canter after the falling off episode. Not great, leg trembled, but didn't fall off again! :)

[chapsi]

I don't know whether you are talking about the same stirrups. I use Sprenger's flexible stirrups and I never had a problem, in fact they are shock absorbing.

[Skib]

I don't know whether you are talking about the same stirrups. I use Sprenger's flexible stirrups and I never had a problem, in fact they are shock absorbing.

Interesting question, both about the stirrups and whether to change schools.
You don't need to change schools - but you could consider buying your own stirrups and leathers.
I now have my own pair of Sprenger stirrups and the new senior instructor at the Yard where I hack, encouraged me to bring them in and use them. I also have a bigger pair of conventional stirrups for when I am wearing my winter Mountain Horse yard boots. Luckily I was using them when I fell off in the school in March.
I hack on a variety of horses, some of which have stirrups too small for my boots and I once fell with my boot wedged in the stirrup. Not clever. After that I always hacked in safety stirrups belonging to the school. The three different sorts of safety stirrup I have used have all been secure and comfortable. None of them spoiled my ride.
The question is what is bendy? I dont personally like riding in bent leg safety stirrups very much. These seem to be what you are describing. They might twist if you were pushing your heels outwards, I suppose. But I quickly got used to them. In fact the bent leg stirrups you describe were what the Queen was using in her birthday photo last year. When I rode in the "Peacock" style safety stirrups with elastic bands up the side I did not notice any difference at all from using normal stirrups. But the plates were rigid and the stirrups did not bend.
But is it possible that your horse was fitted with new bent leg stirrups that are too big for your feet? Although the arch of the stirrup has the inbuilt extra clearance, the plate under your foot should only have about 1cm either side of the widest part of your boot. My normal boots are 4" across so I know I need 4½ inch stirrups with them.
Another possibility is that at some point a teacher has actually told you to press down on the outside of your foot. I was told this once long ago by a teacher who said it would help close my leg round the horse. If you are pressing down on the corner of the plate of a bent leg stirrup, I can imagine that you might have a problem with the stirrup tipping.
I don't expect your yard has bought Sprenger stirrups. Sprenger stirrups are very expensive and I bought them as a luxury because my own teacher uses them and recommended them for reducing the stress on elderly joints. As Chapsi says. But there are some other cheaper brands of hinged stirrups in the catalogue. I dont know whether they have more give in them? And could a stirrup really make your leg shake?
I took some photos of safety stirrups in use at the Surrey Union hunt but cant work out how to post them.

[vjwuk]

I bought my own stirrups and leathers also 2 years before I bought my own horse. I found leathers were never even and if riding different horses I could never get them right first time so got my own. It only takes seconds to swap them over.

[notpoodle]

do you mean the ones with the s-bend type thing on one side? i got myself some of these in the winter and i think most riding schools use them as standard (some use the ones with the rubber band on the outside).

took me about a week to get used to them, but no problems now :) and! you'll never ride with wrongly twisted stirrup leathers again because you know where the bendy bit is supposed to be (outside!) :D

julia
x

[Mehitabel]

re - buying your own stirrups - i doubt a riding school will let you take their safety stirrups off and ride in your own non-safety ones. i expect they are phasing them in because of insurance - we had to a few years ago.

i can't say i've ever had a problem riding in safety stirrups - all our school ponies wear them.
try to think of the weight going down the inside of your leg to your heel, rather than the outside. do you ever have trouble with keeping your knee on the saddle? another possible thing to try os when you are on the horse, take the muscle at the back of your thigh and move it out and up andback, so you are turning your thigh and knee in. it makes you much more secure and should help channel the weight down the inside of your leg.

[Skib]

Mehitabel - That is interesting about the insurance. However, I have been allowed to use my own non-safety stirrups.

When ordering safety stirrups, a school may not necessarily have the large sizes needed by older beginners.
It may even be difficult to buy safety stirrups in the larger sizes. Mountain Horse told me one needed 4¾" stirrups with my size boots. The bent leg stirrups in Rideaway catalogue do not come larger than 4½. Nor do the "Peacock" style ones.

[mad&happy]

a bit ago i saw a girl get unseated, she had s-bend stirrups on and managed to get dragged half way across the arena. I couldn't believe that her foot didn't come loose- thank heaven she didn't get trampled!

[Skib]

Safety stirrups used by adult hunters.
On the left bent leg and "Peacock" elastic type. On the right "Sprenger" style ( brand unknown).
Have I posted pictures OKay at last?

[cathy51]

I bought a set of the Sprenger stirrups and I LOVE them...made a HUGE difference in my legs/ankles. I had had a couple of anlke injuries and reg stirups jarred...these flexible ones are THE best!!! :)

cathy

[entreat]

I would imagine that if you fell, you wouldn't be covered by the school insurance policy with your own stirrups/leathers. Insurance companies will pounce on that - they couldn't be certain your stirrups/leathers didn't cause/contribute to the accident.

[Casey76]

I can't ride in the s-bend safety stirrups either, I just felt as if I had no support on the outside of my foot (even though my foot never touches the stirrup any way :confused: ) I also felt that my foot would go through the stirrup all the time... not good to be concentrating on that when riding a spooky, nappy mare.

I'd love to try the sprenger flexi stirrups, except here they nearly 150 pounds :o

[Mehitabel]

i'd echo entreat - if they are letting you ride in them, chances are you are not covered by their insurance if you do fall. at our last renewal, we were not allowed to let clients use their own stirrups or their own non-standard hats.

[Skib]

Why are Sprenger so expensive in Switzerland? I paid £99 at TDS Sadlers and they are in Olney Saddlery catalogue at £89.99. Explains why I don't own two pairs.
I went to look at them before buying, as the German sizes dont work out exactly the same as the UK equivalents. There is no exact 4½ and the so-called 4¾" Sprenger is too narrow for my big boots.

The important thing to note is that Sprenger stirrups have a dual purpose; they are also safety stirrups. So if the school stipulate safety stirrups and you dont like bent leg ones, they are worth considering.
The school might rightly say that any accident arising from the use of those stirrups was not their liability and thus not covered by their insurance. If I choose to hack in my own stirrups, I am taking responsibilty for that decision. But that does not mean that a school should prevent adult students from using their own stirrups of the correct size.
A refusal on the part of the school might create liability.
Riding is a risky business and it seems to me that adult learners need to be able to weigh things up and take their own decisions. I myself decided to learn to ride using standard tack. I want to be capable of riding when I am away from home. I did not want to be dependent on seat savers, safety stirrups etc. I still have my formal (flat) riding lessons using conventional stirrups of the correct size which belong on my instructor's own horse.

[Mehitabel]

unfortunately, a waiver has no legal weight at all. if you fall off, the insurance company decides the place was negligent in allowing you to, you can have signed 100 waivers and the insurance company will still hammer the school on the next renewal, even if you don't claim against them. if you *do* claim against them, as a lot of people would, then they haven't got a leg to stand on.

if we weren't getting into this compensation culture and insurance companies weren't whacking up the premiums accordingly, then yes, adult learners could and would be allowed to make their own decisions.

every time someone falls off and it is in the accident book, we are now obliged to inform our insurance company, who often send people round to see the teacher, see the horse ridden, determine if it was omething that could have been avoided. if anything is deemed to be out of place, up our premiums go, or trhings are excluded. we have to provide toe stoppers for riders with inappropriate footwear, body protectors are compulsory for jumping and cantering, all sorts of things over the last year or so.

[Est]

Safety stirrups used by adult hunters.
On the left bent leg and "Peacock" elastic type. On the right "Sprenger" style ( brand unknown).
Have I posted pictures OKay at last?

Pictures came out great :D
Peacock style (rubber band) stirrups are not suitable for use by adults or children who weigh more than 8 stone approx. They are really intended for younger children, up to about age 12.
They are not designed to cope with higher weights - during normal riding (not just in a fall) the rubber band piece can potentially break and the base of the iron may even buckle downwards.
Other types of safety stirrups can feel really weird at first, but for anyone over 8 stone (ahem!) they are a much safer option :)

[Casey76]

Skib, everything is expensive in Switzerland, though where I am it's very easy to over the border to either France or Germany, though I think the border patrol may have something to say if I tried to bring a saddle back "under my coat" without paying import tax, and importation into Switzerland is a funny business too - there are lots of different limits for different items *shrug*. If I go to France for my shopping, I just try to look as innocent as possible on the way back, and hope the customs officials dont need to check my receipt.

[Wally]

We have double bend safety stirrups. They are great I feel no difference from them to the trad. English ones.

[entreat]

I don't feel safe without my s-bend safety stirrups! I have a morbid fear of gettign dragged, and if I don't use them, I spend most of the time frantically looking at my feet & adjusting their position! Eek!

I wouldn't mind trying the Sprenger ones, tho... they look comfy!

[Skib]

Wally
Please. What is a double bend safety stirrup?

[Wally]

This might be a pic of them....nope it's going to be a link to the pictures.....

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47388

[Skib]

Thanks Wally. I've not seen these before.

[*toHorse&Away*]

I don't know about the stirrups but the insurance thing is interesting. I have read all over the place how it is going up and up for riding schools - as mentioned above, this compensation culture thing is not helping.
I was told at my school when I mentioned that the horses were very difficult to motivate that they don't have forward going horses because of insurance! :mad: :eek: ??????

[GarnetFox]

Just realised today that I've been riding in the s-bend stirrups! They didn't feel any different to the normal ones I used to ride in and I was concentrating too much to notice. :p

[sidesaddlelady1]

You should always check that stirrup leathers are a pair when buying them. The holes should match (use dead match sticks to line them up). However, very few peoples' legs are a pair. Most of us have a slight difference. You should also swop your leathers over regularly, otherwise, even if you use a mounting block (which everyone should) the one you use on the mounting side will stretch more than the other.

Incidentally, you should always buy the best quality leathers you can afford - preferably English leather and keep them cleaned and well oiled. The extra expense and effort could save your life. 20 squid for a pair of Indian/Pakistani leathers may sound a bargain as opposed to £60 for English leathers but I have seen more broken collarbones than I can count and at least two deaths attributable directly to poor quality stirrup leathers breaking.

[Trewsers]

Right guys, been reading this thread with interest as I was going to buy a pair of peacock safety irons after work today (got a new saddle the other day for first horse and am a novice). Anyway, after reading all the different opinions I still can't decide what to do. I'm definitely over 10 stone and so is OH, so am I not supposed to buy the peacock irons??? The school where we've been learning always use them and we've used them for nearly 12 months. so, should I go for the bent ones? If so, how on earth do they actually work? I see the point about if the peacock ones break whilst cantering say, and you would become unbalanced. But, how do these bent ones work? How come your foot doesn't just slide through if they're so wide? I've got a pair of toe stoppers - well OH has, could they be used in conjunction with normal stirrups and if so, would these be the equivalent of having safety irons??? I could then get some normal irons and buy another pair of toe stoppers? Sorry for all the questions but I'd really like to get this clear, as I don't want to waste any money - I bought OH some larger peacocks the other day and they cost me £17.
Thanks

[Est]

Hi Trewsers
You *might* be fine with peacock irons... but then again you might not! Here's a quote from a website on safety around horses:

"If you prefer specially designed safety irons, choose the right type. Irons with rubber rings on one side are only suitable for smaller children – the metal can’t take the stress of adult weights and may eventually break without warning. Adults should use 'bent leg' safety irons."

And this is from an online tackshop. First their description of Peacock Irons:

"Designed with children in mind, these safety irons have a rubber band on the outside of the stirrup iron which is designed to give way in the event of a fall. This should prevent a foot getting wedged in the stirrup. We do NOT recommend their use by older children or adults as their open sided design can cause them to bend under heavier weights which can lead to breakage. We recommend the Australian Simplex or Bent Leg irons once children are off the leading rein. "
(Emphasis mine)

And now their description of bent leg irons:

"This stirrup iron, known as either the Bent Leg iron or Australian Simplex iron, is designed to be used with the bend facing foward & on the outside of the foot. This fitting is very important as if used the wrong way round, the opposite effect will occur - causing a foot to be trapped in the event of a fall. We recommend these irons for all older children & adult riders."

So it's your call - but Peacocks really are not safe for adult riders... :)

[Trewsers]

Thanks Est, I'm going to use normal stirrups with my toe stoppers - until I can get some bent safety irons. The toe stoppers sound like a really good idea and I can use them until next week - I'll only be walking and trotting anyway :) I do see the point about the peacock ones, I mean, they could break and then what?! :eek: Wouldn't fancy being completely unbalanced in a fast pace by the rubber breaking - nasty. Anyway, cheers for the info. :)

[Skib]

Very interested (and surprised) to read that it is dangerous to use bent leg stirrups fitted the wrong way round.
Last summer I called in at some places looking for a place to hack. At one BHS recognised school we watched a group ride prepare to set out. I noticed one boy had his bent leg stirrup fitted the wrong way round.
A staff member noticed it too but said there was no time to change it. So they set off like that.

[mad&happy]

a bit ago i saw a girl get unseated, she had s-bend stirrups on and managed to get dragged half way across the arena. I couldn't believe that her foot didn't come loose- thank heaven she didn't get trampled!

look :eek:

[Wally]

I spent a long time explaining to a "qualified" person the importance of Peacock and bent leg irons being fitted the correct way round.......they had no idea and it was them who were inspecting ME to see if I was safe to operate! :mad: :mad: :mad:

I spent a day at a show watching kids ride with their "safety" stirrups on backwards actually causing a dagerous situation.

What I object to is so called qualified people being put in a position of power over me and not knowing their bottom from their elbow when it comes down to the very basics.

I am a saddler and I am expecting someone who has done a one day course to tell me that I am using safe tack! Thanks! Now what if I was to do a day course on something that took them 5 years to acheive? Would they be expected to take me seriously?

[Alyra]

I too am a bit scared of being dragged so decided I was going to get toestoppers but then found some saferider ones on ebay - they are ones that have like a mini stirrup bit at the top on the inside so if your toe comes up and hits it - they fall apart. So they only come apart in a fall! I don't think I've explained them very well I thnk their website is www.saferider.com.au. I haven't tried them yet though as they still haven't been delivered - stupid posties :) :D

[Skib]

There are several new designs on the market and the strength and suitability of stirrups may vary from country to country.
It seems to me that the whole question of modern safety stirrups deserves full investigation and a report by some authoritative UK body.
I went to the Leslie Desmond clinic this weekend. She insists on riders wearing safety stirrups. I saw at least four different types in use, the Peacock (rubber band sided) style, double bent leg, Quick out and Sprenger.
Leslie Desmond did not pronounce the Peacock style or any other style unsuitable.
I dont wear Peacock (rubber band sided) style myself but I photographed them worn by adults at a Hunt meet, that is by knowledgeable riders.
We each have our preferred style, but I feel unable to pronounce on this without evidence and statistics from a proper trial similar to those carried out on hats and body protectors.