Behavioural Problems

[nz_horse_chick]

Hey,
Well, got this new horse and he was fine until he started to have these problems:

Problem Number 1.
He eats the other horses.... literally. He and the lead horse (both geldings)were charging each other, rearing up on there hind legs and going for each other throat. Every week another bite or kick mark has appeared on one of the other horses but he remains markless. This has annoyed the other people at the paddock so he is in isolation but I don't mind. He is the sweetest horse to handle and do everything with, he just eats the other horses, hence the nickname 'the cannibal' by the other people at the paddock. We don't know much about his background but could be something back in his past since he is an ex-racer. Then just the other day, one of my good mates horses was standing right next to us and he just went for him, didn't get him but he got a good whack by my mate for it.

Problem Number 2.
He weaves, he doesn't od it when we aren't there, only when we are standing nearby and he just does it at the gate as an attention seeking thing. When we got him he did it quite a bit and then stopped and now he's started doing it again.

If anyone has any comments or anything or similiar problems with there horse I would love to hear them, I just think this is rather strange.
Thanks,
Emma

[Est]

Hey,
Well, got this new horse and he was fine until he started to have these problems:
Problem Number 1.
He eats the other horses.... literally. He and the lead horse (both geldings)were charging each other, rearing up on there hind legs and going for each other throat.

Establishing dominance. Was your horse added straight to the field or introduced in slow stages?

Every week another bite or kick mark has appeared on one of the other horses but he remains markless. This has annoyed the other people at the paddock so he is in isolation but I don't mind.

This will delay establishing a new "pecking order" within the established herd and increase his stress levels while he is isolated from the safety of a herd environment. If he could be introduced to one horse from the herd (preferably the lead gelding) in his new paddock, and grazed together for a few weeks, they will establish who fits where. They could more easily be introduced back to the main herd together then.

Then just the other day, one of my good mates horses was standing right next to us and he just went for him, didn't get him but he got a good whack by my mate for it.

Probably the other horse was lower ranking and standing too close to your horse's space. He probably won't understand why he got smacked as, in horsey terms, he wasn't doing anything wrong. Again, until the pecking order in the field is established, it's not a good idea to have another horse held or tied that close, as it exacerbates a stressful situation. A distance of around 3-5 metres will be safer and stop your horse feeling "invaded".

Problem Number 2.
He weaves, he doesn't od it when we aren't there, only when we are standing nearby and he just does it at the gate as an attention seeking thing. When we got him he did it quite a bit and then stopped and now he's started doing it again.

Weaving, in common with most vices, has been linked to stress. Think about it - when you're upset, you might wrap your arms round yourself and rock to and fro. The repetitive action releases endorphins into your blood stream, which relax you and make you feel comforted. (You may have heard them called "happy hormones".) It works the same for horses - they may end up doing it for attention when they realise that's what they get as a result, but the actual vice stems from acute stress. I don't know when you bought your horse, but presumably in the recent past he has changed owners, yards and routines. He probably lost a pair bond (close friend - often for life when we humans don't mess that up!) and the security of a familiar herd and a place within that. He is now isolated from other horses and probably feeling very insecure.

There are people on here far more qualified and experienced than me, who will probably have great suggestions to offer you. But here's my initial thoughts:
1. Get your horse re-introduced to the herd correctly - try starting a thread asking for ideas on this as there are many excellent ways of doing this successfully.
2. Do some groundwork with your horse to establish your leadership over him. He will feel more secure and know his boundaries (just like a child) if there are clear rules and expectations on behaviour. Any Natural Horsemanship method will give you some good ideas on how to achieve this - try this link:
http://equine-natural-health.co.uk/natural-horsemanship.htm
3. Explain to the other owners what the actual situation is and ask them for patience while you work through it. Their understanding will take a lot of the pressure off you and make it easier for you to achieve your goals with your horse.

A new horse was recently introduced at my yard who displayed very similar behaviour. He earned the nickname "Psycho horse" from some of the owners, who didn't want him in their paddock. He is now in with my horses, pair bonded with my mare (shared grazing in my field) and much more relaxed and confident. So there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Look forward to hearing how you get on :)

[nz_horse_chick]

Hey,

Thanks heaps for all that, I shall definately talk to the owners about it. The reason he probably wasn't settled in right as that I bought him and was away from two weeks but the owner wanted him out straight away as she was moving so they settled him in straight away without me being there.

I also agree that my horses didn't understand why he was being punished when my friend hit him. I actually thought that was quite mean. I'll take alook at the website also!

Thanks alot!
Emma & Choccy

[Miriam]

Inclined to agree with Est on the first one could it be a pecking order.

Don't know that much about weaving but I do know it could be a stress thing. Molly never used to weave as far as I coul dremember but when she had to be boxed (for weeks before her owners & vet made the decison to let her go) she started to weave.

[quote]Then just the other day, one of my good mates horses was standing right next to us and he just went for him, didn't get him but he got a good whack by my mate for it.[quote]


I've been in a similar situation where a horse has deliberately gone for another horse and made mine into a jam sandwich all because I was bringing mine in from the field. This horse literally lunged over mine pushing her next to the other horse and jaming the other horse up to the fence. Its not a nice thing to see or have done. My friend and I had her little girl with us. As the said horse managed to grab a chunk of skin from the other horse leaving a mark we both became aware of the worst thing that could have happened, and that it could have been the child. I know its a different sort of situation and I'm not saying what your friend did was right. But it could have been instinct to protect her horse.

[nz_horse_chick]

Yeah, another reason my friend was a bit uptight is that she's leased this horse for sixteen years from the paddock manager who is a good friend and my instructor and the horse is now 29 and lately shes been stressing about how much time she has left with him so I don't blame her, she was just protecting her baby, I probably would have done the same.

He just tends to be fine one minute and then attack the closest horse the next minute so its really something that is quite strange because the horse he attacked we usually hack out together, every second day we head out for a road ride together, ride side-by-side on the quiet country lanes so I really didn't expect that.

We are going to get a Horse Behaviouralist up from down South to work with him, we aren't expecting miracles but atleast suss out a bit more about him! Hopefully we will find out something by that.

Thank-you both for your answers and comments, they were all helpfull!
Emma & Chocolate Eclair

[Miriam]

Good luck in finding the cause of his behaviour. With Dacia we knew that she could be very protective of anything she thought was hers. I had always had trouble with her but her loanee owner said when she got her she could handle it. That incident was one of the worst as usually she would either herd Rhi from me or chase me. This horse was never givne the chance to use my horse as an excuse for her behaviour again as I pulled mine out of the field along with the other horse who had the incident. However it did not stop there and eventually the girl was asked to remove Dacia from the yard.

Wishing all the best as it least your trying to find out why this one was just left to get on with it

[denise42]

" since he is an ex-racer. "

We have several horses at our barn that currently race ( down with injuries )and several ex-racers.
Most of them have one or both of the issues you mentioned. A lot of the problems stem from the environment they come from. Usually they are not turned out with other horses, if they are turned out at all. The only relationship they have with other horses is during practice and the races. Keeping in mind how young they are when they start their training , they never really learn how to fit into a herd.
They are left in their stalls for hours on end. So they pick up some of the oddest habits. Weaving, cribbing, pacing, banging.. you name it. Its from the mental stress of not being able to be a horse. I am not looking to make anyone mad. But these horses are not in the most optimal situation to learn to be a horse and to get along with others.
So when we take an ex-racer, one of the first things you need to do , is help this guy find some self confidence. Help him to find a friend. They deal better if they are given the chance to meet one horse and buddy up with them, then add more horses slowly. It can be scary for them when the new horses are added as it makes them re-evaluate there place in the heard , and they have very little experence with that, so in responce to that fear of losing their place in the herd they can be aggressive. This can be a slow process, but once he finds out " Where he stands " he will feel better about himself and in turn the more they are out & interacting with others the less they have the opertunity to weave, pace or whatever in the stall. :)

[nz_horse_chick]

Yeah,
At the moment he is at another paddock with quiet alot of grass and there is a 14hh pony in the next paddock so they have bonded quite well, we always go for rides with the pony and he still theatens her a bit but its more a dominance thing I think.

I know he was cooped up in a stall and since I work at the racecourse across the road I know what the racehorses have to go through. They stand in either there stalls or pens all day, no contact with other horses unless its through the chicken wire and no grass just dirt and a little bit of hay. I feel really bad so I go groom them whenever I have time.

I think he was a bit neglected when he was young (they didn't get his wolf teeth out, he had a very bad injury to his hock, but he was a good racer, had to stop because he hurt himself in the starting gates) Anyway thanks everyone, I've just finished doing his feed so gotta go give that to him now!

Thanks alot,
Emma