Some treeless questions from a near-convert!

[Est]

I am seriously considering going treeless, and would really appreciate some input to help me make a final decision :)

I've been having to ride bareback recently, and after the first try (scary and slippery :eek: ) found it actually very comfortable - and it put me in a correct position too! Riding friends' horses, I'm really aware of the saddles never feeling quite right now - they all seem to have funny-length saddle flaps or dig in to me in painful ladylike places :o For obvious reasons I don't want to hack out bareback, so figured a treeless saddle could be the perfect solution to stop me going round and round in the school all day!

1. Do treeless saddles really feel like a more padded version of bareback riding?

2. I want to hack, school and jump (don't see myself sailing over 6' hedges and ditches somehow - let's say 3' max!) - are some bareback saddles more suitable than others for jumping? I think Galadriel posted in a different thread that the Bareback Cheyenne wasn't so good for serious schooling and jumping, for example. Does anyone jump in their treeless? What makes are good for supporting a jumping position?

3. I've looked at loads of different types and so far I particularly liked:

Budget: Bareback Cheyenne (but see comment above)

Mid range: Torsion - but thought the Standard seemed most suitable and in some of the pictures the stirrup leathers looked to place the rider's leg a little too far forward - is this the case or just the angle of the picture?

In my dreams: Freeform (how fab! Look at the colours!!)

Any comments on schooling and jumping in these, plus general position and comfort would be really great. I've searched some of the older threads on treeless saddles too, so I have a few ideas, but this is a lot of money for me :eek: so I want to get it right :)

Thank you so much in advance for helping :)

[No_Angel]

I have a Trekker Talent and an Ansur Konlusion. My Trekker looks like the Barefoot and my Ansur is alot more traditional looking.
I have jumped you to about 3 foot in my Trekker, my position was a little off as my legs were in the correct dressage position, but I felt very secure. My Ansur is a jumping saddle, but if a Freeform is out of your price range then an Ansur definatly will be, mine was £850 second hand- and that was a cheap! :eek:
The Trekker isn;t the best for schooling, my mom is trying to do more schooling on her horse with it and it just doesn;t seem right, for hacking you could get anything better, it think the fact that it holds you in is why it isnt so good for schooling.
One of my horses rears, and the saddle is actually hers, she has become alot better since getting it and actually stands still to be tacked up (thats a miracle in itself), I feel ok when she rears,and it hasn't moved at all (and I didn't ride with a breastplate then!) but I did find my legs slid back quite easily when she stood up straight in the woods.
Hope this helps
Tasha

[Est]

IMy Trekker looks like the Barefoot. The Trekker isn;t the best for schooling, my mom is trying to do more schooling on her horse with it and it just doesn;t seem right, for hacking you could get anything better, it think the fact that it holds you in is why it isnt so good for schooling.[/QUOTE

I guess that's the cheap one gone then! <OH groans>
If more people come back and say they can jump okay in a Torsion, I'll probably go for that - but secretly I'm still dreaming of the Freeform :D
Does anyone have nice things to say about that one so that I can start justifying the purchase to myself?!

[QUOTE]Hope this helps
Tasha

Tasha that is lots of help! Thank you very much!

Keep the comments coming guys, this is really helpful :)

[Showjumper]

Treeless saddles are SO comfortable :D I rode in a treed saddle last weekend, which was so painful. My Fitform is fabulous. I've schooled in it, and mostly hack. I haven't really jumped in it as Dolly isn't ready for it (although she likes to "jump" twigs and puddles out on hacks).

Check out the Alternative Horse link in my signature for more treeless saddles (and remember, although they're expensive to buy, they'll never need refitting or reflocking, your horse can change shape as much as it likes without outgrowing the saddle, and they really hold their price).

[Drummers mum]

Hi

I also have a Trekker, and I love it, I hate riding in a treed saddle now!! I have jumped in my Trekker but only anout 1.5' :o We are chickens! You can get a numnah with knee rolls on that would help if you jumped. I school in mine too but only 20 mins twice a week so nothing strenuous!

[Bebe]

Unless the prices have gone up I don't think the Freeform is more than a few pounds more expensive than a Torsion by the time you factor in the extra pads you would need with the Torsion (you can't use a normal numnah and their pads are more expensive than the Freeform numnahs).

I originally had a Fitform which is very similar to a Torsion. I loved it for hacking and could school in it but wasn't overly keen on jumping (hit the front pommel once too many times). I had it for 2yrs and never had a problem with it. I only sold it on as I upgraded to a Freeform.

The Freeform didn't suit my mares conformation so I didn't have it for long but I did do a fair bit in it. I felt comfortable jumping small obstacles in it, placed at a local show using it, hacked & schooled. It was better for schooling than the Fitform as it offers a more shaped seat which is more supportive to the rider. I also preferred it for fastwork & jumping, probably because it has small knee rolls. I sold it after 4/5 months because I couldn't get wither clearance on my high withered mare and whilst it didnt' cause problems as such I was worried about it in the long term and my mare found it a little restrictive.

I now have a Flexion SBS and love it. It's far and away the best saddle out of the bunch for schooling and though it's a dressage saddle I have working hunter knee rolls on it which means it's great for hacking and jumping too.

[Est]

Check out the Alternative Horse link in my signature for more treeless saddles
lol :D That's where I did all my research from! Great site! Thanks Showjumper.

@ Drummers mum - That's a good idea about a numnah with knee rolls. Back to Showjumper's website again!! I think that *if* a numnah with knee rolls was available for the Torsion, that might make it more suitable for jumping than I originally thought. Any Torsion owners able to comment on schooling and jumping in one?

@ Bebe - If I went for the Freeform with its small knee rolls, would I still need to add a numnah with knee rolls too for jumping? What size are your "small obstacles"?! The Flexion sounds brilliant and loads of people recommend it - but isn't that the one that's not available at the moment? Do they ever trade second hand or are they like gold dust?

Also, I read that you are not allowed to compete in some shows if you have a treeless saddle where the seat is separate to the saddle - is that true, and if so would it affect Riding Club shows? (Not brave enough to try just yet, but might feel more gutsy next summer!)

A big thank you again for all your help on this :)

[No_Angel]

The torsion dressage saddle and the Torsion Trekking saddle already have kneeolls on, so do the Dartmoor Treefree saddles, you might want to have a look at them because they have a gullet aswell, and I think they might be slightly cheaper than Torsion.

[Bebe]

I never felt the need to add anything extra to the Freeform (but bare in mind I'd ridden for 2yrs with no knee rolls at all so was used to that). Small obstacles really are small where I'm concerned 12" to 2' (on a very brave day!).

The Flexion isn't for sale new at the moment but there are 2 on Ebay at the minute, a black GP and brown dressage one I think. They do come up for sale now and again, most often because people are swopping between GP & dressage or changing the colour!

I forgot about the Dartmoor Treefree but have heard nothing but good things about them. They're available with made to measure pommel blocks too which seems like a good option.

Edited to add that you can now compete in a Torsion for dressage so would imagine that the Freeform, Dartmoor Treefree, etc are acceptable. This is due to a fairly recent rule change, prior to this change you were correct, you couldn't compete in a saddle with a detachable seat. The Freeform wasn't commented upon when I used it at a couple of local shows and I know lots of people compete in all disciplines using a Flexion SBS.

[Crystal Fire]

I'm now selling a 16" black Dartmoor Treefree if anyone is interested. Includes numnah, stirrups and webbers, xw and xxw front "trees". Just email me on karenandfire@hotmail.com :)