More trot position, with pics!

[Drummers mum]

Sitting trot, I am pushing myself to the back of the saddle, why?

[Drummers mum]

without stirrups I'n not so bad, in the second pic, I have drawn my knee up to kick!!

[Showjumper]

I find the same thing sometimes although not sure why. Easily sorted by dropping the stirrups a hole :)

[Drummers mum]

I spend my life worrying about my stirrup length! You have never seen anybody fiddle with their stirrups as much as I do, :o it drives my friends mad! lol!

When I ride a different horse or when I used to go to riding schools, I would change my stirrups about 10 times in the first 5 minutes! :rolleyes:

The trouble is, if I have them too long is that I loose them!

[Showjumper]

lol my stirrups are bugging me at the moment. I just bought a new pair, and can't get them comfortable now! They're excellent leathers but I'm very tempted to start putting more holes in halfway between the existing holes...

[Drummers mum]

Thats what I've done!, I have half holes so I have a choice of about 4 positions! Mine are only cheap though!

[Torny]

Hello Drummer, I have had a look at the Pictures and Hope that the following advice and Picture Diagrams helps :)

First Picture
( With Stirrups ) : You need to bring your Shoulders back and that will bring bring your elbow back into the correct bend. You need to bring those toes in and pointing forward because it is causing your knee to open up. This is causing 'Seat' imbalance and so making you tip back.

second Photo
( Without Stirrups ) : Again, the same as above, but what has happened to your nice tall postion? The baggy jumper probably makes it look worse but it looks as though you have collapsed your back/stomach. This is probably to do with tenseness, it looks like you are gripping with your thigh.

Remember also, to sit up tall. if you collapse thats where everything unravels. Also, you don't sit in the saddle with both bum cheeks like in a chair. You tip your pelvis a little towards the pommel, but not to excess of course. With sitting trot, remeber it is your lower back that flexes and moves to teh movement. Your legs should stay quite still!

Hope this helps!

[Tootsie4U]

Ditto Torny. Let your leg wrap around the barrel. Toes forward and in, which will also bring the knee in. And THUMBS UP! :)

I dont see you pushing yourself back, in fact, you've almost got it in the first picture!

[GarnetFox]

Lovely position! I'd love to sit trot as well as you. :)

[Drummers mum]

Thanks GarnetFox, I think its one of the hardest things to do! I think I look better than I feel!

Tootsie, my thumbs never behave! :D Seriously, when you have a whip in your hand, its hard to keep your thumbs on top because the whip hits your thigh and pushes your hand over! How do you overcome this?!

Torny, I really struggle to keep my toes forwards but you are so right about my shoulders, I hadn't thought about that! I used to really sit to much on my bum and I have only just started to learn to sit better, I will keep working on it!

[Tootsie4U]

Sit in a chair and watch what happens:

Point your toes out at 45 degree angles. What does it do to the space between your legs (thighs)? Restricts, doesn't it?

Now, point them straight ahead and watch your knees come in. Also, what does it do to the space between your legs?

Its the difference between making an inverted V with your body verse an inverted U.

Now, imagine you are Drummer. In which position would you better be able to lift your back and USE your back?

As far as thumbs with a whip, try having it rest above the hip between the hip and elbow. Riding with thumbs up gives you less tendency to ride heavy handed. Its not just for pretty.

[kedwards]

Are you using your heel frequently to send him on? If so, this may be the cause of your leg coming up.

Instead of cueing with your heel, try giving the aid with your inner calf. If he doesn't listen, follow up with a tap of that crop you have and try again until he is listening to a proper leg aid. It's very difficult to keep your legs in the correct position if you have to draw your heel up to cue.

[Drummers mum]

Tootsie: Can't get my toe pointing forwards I'm affraid. I tried but its physicaly impossible! :o If my toe is forwards, my knee comes away from the saddle! :(

I did think very hard about sitting tall and keeping my shoulders back and that felt better, I also closed my eyes, lol! and really felt the movement, oh and thumbs up! ;)

Thanks for all your help everyone, this and my other thread have made me realise its my lower leg that needs the work! I have a lesson on thursday (if the weather holds) so I will ask my instructor!

[Torny]

Glad that you are already feeling improvements !! and because of this your Horse will go prob differently too!!

By sitting tall with your shoulders back you are in such a better, safe & balanced position!

Let us know how it goes ! :cool:

[alwaysfallingof]

Drummers Mum, do you try and kick him on with your heels every stride?

[cvb]

drummers mum

I appreciate what Torny has said about alignment - BUT - when I put it into context of what you say about being at the back of the saddle...

well if you just adjust your upper body, you are going to bring your weight further back on Drummer, and you may feel a bit unbalanced where you end up.

So - it got me wondering whethe the slight tilt and the seat-at-the back are linked... you need to help me here...

e.g. - how easy is it for you to absorb the movement in trot ? Could you be trying to take the "bounce" out by sitting back with body forward ? If you sit "centered" over Drummers centre of gravity, you will need to "spring" through your lower back - which can be tough....

Also, I think the stirrup and length of leg problem is probably also linked to the saddle position - by closing up at the hip very slightly, you automatically shorten the leg just a tad which will take the weight out of the stirrup and the lower leg will be less stable. So personally I would not advise fiddling with the length, but work on the "root cause" instead.

Ok - but sadly I don't have a magic wand (if I did, I'd be waving it at myself ;) ) But my overall advice would be to relax, soften the joints and try to go with the flow. What I would do personally is to try a really slow trot, like a western jog, and really focus on the soft joints, open hip, and the figure 8 your pelvis describes in trot. Think of sitting tall and deep (but SOFT !!). if you feel yourself losing this, go to walk, reposition, and try again.

What you are trying to do is mobilise your back and hips for the slow trot/jog. If you can get that, then ask for a bit more and a bit more, and so on.

[Drummers mum]

The back of the saddle thing is only in trot! I find Drummers trot hard sometimes as he is so quick although if I sit he kind of slows down a bit like he knows I can't cope!

I try really hard with the figure 8 movement, I can feel it but I can't sustain it. The minute anything goes wrong I lose it!

When I first learned to sit the trot I know I just collapsed my whole back instead of doing it properly but I was never taught any different.

I won't change my stirrups, they are ok for everything else!

cvb, you have been a star btw, you have made me really think about what I am doing! I have given up on schooling and ride round the orchard where its easier. You would have laughed at me last night, muttering, sit tall, thumbs on top, look up, relax knee, weight in heel, no no no, look up, oh thumbs on top eek! :rolleyes: !! lol

Just edit to say everyone else has been fab too thanks, I don't know what I'd do without you all!

I will get there!

[cvb]

is the back of the saddle thing sitting, rising, or both ?

what you said about when you first learnt makes me think that some of the pilates stuff would be great for you. Do you know it at all ? If not, there is a DVD which has an intro and 5 short workouts on it that would give you the basic idea. Then you use just "zip up" your abdominal muscles when you're riding, and be amazed at the difference ;)

[Drummers mum]

Just like that! :D

Sitting only I think, my rising is wobbly legs!

Edit, actually now I've looked at pics, I'm not so sure!

I've got a lesson booked for tomorrow so I'm going to ask her what she thinks too!

[Mehitabel]

Tootsie: Can't get my toe pointing forwards I'm affraid. I tried but its physicaly impossible! :o If my toe is forwards, my knee comes away from the saddle! :(


think about where you are asking your leg to come in fron.it sounds like you are trying to putyour toe in by twisting the ankle. what you want to do it turn the whole leg in, so it needs to come from the hip joint.

an exercise that is good for all kinds of leg stability problems is to take the muscle at the back of your thigh and pull it up and out and back, so that it's your inner thigh, and not the back of your leg, that is against the saddle. then your whole leg is pointing forward, so you don't have to twist anywhere and no tension shoudl be set up. it's also good for getting your lower leg underneath you - at the same time, think about 'knee and heel down and back' rather than just heels down.

often the hip joints are quite tight, so it may feel a bit sore to start with. your leg will also pop back out again annoyingly frequently for a while, o you may find you are having to put yourself back at quite regular intervals. as your muscles get used to it, you will be able to hold it for longer and as you do more things.

[Dizzy]

You are sitting with your seat bones angled ever so slightly backwards. Use your lower tummy muscles and scoot your bum underneath you, don't tense your bum and shuffle it under you, your seat muscles need to be relaxed.

When you've got your seat bones vertical to the ground, take your feet out of your stirrups, and lift your knees up and away from from the horse, as high as you can, and for as long as you can. This won't be comfortable, you'll feel it pulling in your inner thigh and tummy muscles.

Feel the pull for as long as you can bear, then let your legs drop, knees aimed at the floor, and legs draped around the horse and relax - now slip your hands underneath your thighs and pull any spare flesh outward.

This exercise will help you to open your hips and get your thigh and knee aimed at the horse. Now the important thing is to let weight DROP THROUGH your legs into your heel, so your seat and legs are relaxed, until you give an aid.

I could go on alot more about position, relaxation and feeling the stride, but you really need an instructor on site (as really with everything I've suggested) but I do feel I must comment on the photo where you say you were 'kicking on' our aid for forward should be a firm squeeze, if its ignored, it should be followed up by a firm tap with whip behind our leg to enforce our leg aid.

If we allow them to ignore our aids they become dead to our legs, if we give indiscriminate aids for forward, (using our legs in the wrong place) when we want to move sideways, or turn on the forehand, they will be confused. We must be crystal clear with our aids.

I hope I don't sound too naggy, its not intended. I think you and Drummer look a lovely relaxed pair - and he's absolutely adorable.

[Drummers mum]

Thanks Dizzy, I think hes adorable too!! :D

Not nagging, its one of the things I've got to work on! :o I shall try your torturous leg exercise!!!

[cvb]

Just like that! :D

Actually yes, "just like that" ! All these words about pushing your belly button to your pine, "bracing" and so on - thing is such words can lead to people doing it very wrong as well as very right - and not KNOW that its wrong :(

Whereas I feel that Pilates taks you through it in a bit more detail....

And then when you try it - you think "wow" cos its so simple but makes such a difference.

Its also one of those "just walking around" things as well, cos "zipping" makes you look taller and slimmer ! ;)

[Drummers mum]

Lol. had my lesson today, I've posted on general! :D

[intouch]

If you go to Kinder way on site links, Heather has a good explanation of position. :)