Grass - opinions/advice/help

[angelfben]

Sorry this is so lengthy... :(

With both horses arriving within the next couple of weeks I'm now in full blown neurotic panic mode :eek:

One of my worries is the grass in the fields, it has been steadily creeping up while I have been sorting out arrangements etc. and is now almost knee high. I have had so many conflicting opinions about this though that I don't know what to do... some people have said adamantly that I should have the fields topped/mown as there is a risk of there being too much long, lush grass for the horses to gorge themselves on, but others have said that the grass is actually better off left long as long grass has a higher fibre content and less of a sugar/concentrate effect than shorter/'new' grass and so is a lower risk???

I have a just turned 3yo filly coming along with a very good doer 8yo gelding who has suffered an attack of laminitis in the past - though this was stress induced and not grass related. They will both be strip grazed to restrict their grass intake but what is a 'safe' area to allow them without unnecessarily restricting them too much? I have been told my filly will take the grass quite well with her being young but the gelding will be treated as a laminitic, with them being turned out together what would be a safe compromise to ensure that she gets the nutrition out of the grass that she needs without putting him at risk?

And advice/help much appreciated!

I also found some information on the long grass/short grass connection with laminitic care on here...

http://members.aol.com/arfryn1/HorseTalk/fm-grass.htm

Young, leafy grass is higher in cell contents and therefore has a higher feed value per kilo than mature, stemmy grass which is higher in cell wall (fibre). Young, succulent grass is also easier to ingest and takes less time to chew, due to its lower structural (fibre) content.

One study found that horses ate 12kg of dry matter whilst grazing short grass and 10.5kg of dry matter whilst grazing grass at hay making stage, during a 24 hour period. This illustrates how intake goes down with increased grass maturity (hence fibre content).

[Quarter Horse]

Sorry not much help here but If you are worried about the good doer, even though his laminitis atack wasnt grass based, Why dont you try a grazing Muzzle (not sure of correct name)
Use this alongside not letting them on the grass in Frost or at very hot midday temps.

In regards to cutting or leaving, Id suggest cutting it, Not that low, But not as high as it is now.

:)

[eventerbabe]

i'd suggest a muzzle. topping the grass is in effect kinda stressing it and this is BAD for lamanitics. can you borrow a pair of sheep?? they will keep the long grass down. even though the geldings laminitis was stress induced, this makes him generally more prone to it so anything could trigger it off. i'd also suggest putting him on a probiotic, this helps keep the gut moving and may ward off a laminitis attack.

[Bebe]

One study found that horses ate 12kg of dry matter whilst grazing short grass and 10.5kg of dry matter whilst grazing grass at hay making stage, during a 24 hour period. This illustrates how intake goes down with increased grass maturity (hence fibre content).

This may be so but you also need to take into account the moisture content of each type of grass. For example, the grass in our field went through a huge growth spurt recently but it was very high in moisture so whilst the overall intake would probably be high in terms of weight, a lot of the weight is made up of water. This grass is low in fibre but high in sugar and would be of most risk to laminitis.

Longer & more mature grass will have less water content and more fibre, would probably weigh less when compared to the first type of grass but would be better for most horses.

[angelfben]

Originally posted by Big Ears (on cross-post) thank you:

if you have such good grass and a lamnintic you are going to have to be veryv ery careful, he would need to be in a strip which is very very small - almost like a schooling ring, and let him eat it down completely and move it out a couple of feet every week. My Rosie is on a starvation paddock which is probably about 1/8th of an acre - but it has been grazed all last year and by her since December, so there isn't a lot on it. Topping the paddock will make it worse as there is more sugar in the stems of grass, so that would be what you would be left with if you top it. You maybe should aim initially for an area about the size of 3 to 4 stables and see how you go. ask your vet. Once Rosie got it she was off for 9 months so prevention is by far the best remedy - how have they managed his condition in his current place?

[angelfben]

Originally posted by cvb (on cross-post) thank you

I guess the risk is that even tho you know the previous incident was stress not grass, there may have been some damage to digestive system which means he will be more sensitive to ANY trigger...

Plus one of the golden rules of feeding is not to change their diet too fast !

Do you have the option to only put him on the lush grass (however much) for small periods of time to start with ?

I personally would try and get it topped. If only cos it restricts the shear VOLUME of grass they have available !

[racipaci]

even though the geldings laminitis was stress induced, this makes him generally more prone to it so anything could trigger it off

Sorry to go a bit off topic here but could I ask are you sure about that as my gelding had stress induced laminitus last year and my vet told me he wouldn't be any more susceptible to it than normally as the two causes fo laminitus are completely unrelated.

I'm not doubting you EB, I just wonder if anyone could establish whether they are more susceptible after stress induced laminitus, just so I know to take extra precautions this year.

[eventerbabe]

Sorry to go a bit off topic here but could I ask are you sure about that as my gelding had stress induced laminitus last year and my vet told me he wouldn't be any more susceptible to it than normally as the two causes fo laminitus are completely unrelated.


100% positive. my mare initially came down with stress induced, then concussion, then stress, then feed related (some kind person feeding her green hay without us knowing) then stress related again. once they have had it they are more prone to ANY form of laminitis.

i'm shocked your vet said that different types of laminitis are unrelated coz from my understanding of the subject, thats very wrong.

[angelfben]

This is why I'm not sure what to do :o I value all of your opinions and even in this short thread already there has been so much mixed advice about what I should do with regards to topping the grass.... :(

I also found today However, young grass can also cause problems. It is higher in soluble carbohydrates and lower in fibre than more mature grass, which means:

1. Less fibre for the beneficial micro-organisms within the horse’s hindgut to feed on.

2. A higher risk of an overflow of soluble carbohydrate into the hindgut which leads to a proliferation of less beneficial acid-producing bacteria and hindgut disturbance - which may result in discomfort, colic, and/or laminitis.

So that would indicate that it would be better to leave the grass? But then as it's also been said - there would be more sheer quantity of grass to 'gorge' on even in a confined area?

A grazing muzzle would certainly be a good solution but I'm not sure yet whether that would be over-cautious and I could get away without one if I managed his grazing carefully, at the moment he is turned out 24/7 on grass but their grass is very well grazed compared to mine which hasn't been touched for months.

I'm starting to get really worried about this now, I just want to be sure that I do the right thing :(

[racipaci]

Maybe I misunderstood my vet, he had so many things wrong with him last year I got told all sorts of things! It's good to know though so I can take extra care this year! :D

[eventerbabe]

racipaci, heres a good website to take a look at

http://www.laminitis-advice.co.uk/laminitis_causes.htm

Quote:The cause of almost all laminitis is poor digestion. When food is not broken down properly in the hindgut of a horse, acids and toxins are produced which leak into the body and damage blood vessels and organs throughout the body. When blood vessels and cells that feed the feet are affected in this way the amount of blood flowing down to the sensitive laminae is reduced and they become swollen. (Some alternative theories also suggest that toxins more importantly affect horn growth and that these are the cause of most laminitis). Swelling or inflammation of laminae means that they cannot do their job of holding the pedal bone in place properly and this results in a lot of pain. As the situation gets worse and if the flow of toxins is not reduced then the laminae can be so damaged that the foot bone sinks right through the sole of the foot and the horse will have to be euthanased. When the foot bone sinks a little the pedal bone is said to have 'rotated'.

[eventerbabe]

angelfben, take a look at www.safergrass.org