Newbie questions about position, rising trot, knees, whips etc

[stormchaser]

(I cross posted to another forum, but I want to hear more opinions and comments.)

Hi! Just had a 'try-out' lesson with a new instructor at the Central Moscow Hippodrome. (He speaks English, so I thought I'd like to seek some advice from him that I may not be able to understand with my usual Russian-only instructor.) Some questions that came when I spent the rest of the day thinking about the lesson:

I have a problem about my foot going too deep into the stirrups and I have to stop now and then to sort it out. What can I do to make sure that my heels stay down and the sitrrups stay at the ball of my foot?

About knees... got a small bruise on my right knee because I was told to grip with them while I'm rising on the rising trot. How tight should this grip be? My whole leg feels tense because of this.

Also, I was on a horse that would just bully me and won't listen or response to leg or seat aids until me or my instructor gave him a good whack with the whip. I don't like that and I think the horse doesn't like that either. What should I do with such horses? If they're so thick-skinned is there really no choice but to whip them?

I guess I'll go back to my old instructor. (And her horses!)

[hApPiNeSs]

im not an instructer, or an expert, but i know you should definatly not grip with your knees. Your whole leg should be relaxed as you trot, with the weight gently dropping down into your heel, which will keep your foot in the right place.

Yes, sometimes you have to use a whip on the horse. Ask him to do as you ask, if he doesnt, ask again but more firmly. If he fails again smack your horse with the whip just behind your leg. This may sound harsh but if your horse underminded a horse in a herd situation he would get a kick!

[cvb]

The heel/toe/stirrup thing is about where you have your weight directed. Make sure you have the stirrup under the broadest part of your foot. I like the Sally Swift image of imagining your legs have extended down to the ground. The "feel" you want is the same one when you stand on the ground - i.e. the weight is directed down through the whole foot - not tipped into toe or heel.

Oh - another "image"/exercise. Stand on a step with the broadest part of your foot on the edge of the step. If you can, adopt "riding position" i.e. have some flex in knee and hip (possibly "dressage rider position" ;) )

Now - I know people use this exercise as a stretch but DON'T !! This time you just want to have your foot flat - feel that the weight is even through the whole foot (this may mean you have a slightly lower heel, which is fine).

If you drop all the weight into your heel - what happens to the muscles ? And all into the toe ? Try both extremes and then come back to the middle ground.

make sense ?

Ok - re the knee grip. personally I don't like this. If you grip, you cause tension... for me I want to be "wrapped around" the horse, not gripped on like a limpet :eek: More a friendly hug than a bear hug ;) Get someone to hug you round the ribs - want happens if they squeeze too tight ? (tought to breathe and move). But a nice hug is a good feeling. Thats more what you are aiming for.

[jUmPingIsLifE]

for rising trot you definatly shouldn't be gripping with your knees as it will make you tense and that will make it so that you CANT keep your heels down and will cause your lower leg to be unstable. rising is the easiest part of the rising trot, the horse pushes you up, its going back down that you should be using your theighs to ease yourself down, not your knee. if you stop gripping you'll find it easier to keep your heels down and steady.

an excersize that teaches you to keep the weight in your heel is to take your feet out of your stirrups and place your heel (yes your heel) in the stirrup the best you can (it will barley sit on the back of your heel) and practice riding like that. the only way to keep them is to keep your heel pressed down.

[PromiseMe]

Answers in bold --

I have a problem about my foot going too deep into the stirrups and I have to stop now and then to sort it out. What can I do to make sure that my heels stay down and the sitrrups stay at the ball of my foot?

I had the same problem, and I'm sure many others out there do as well. For me, this came with time. Eventually, when you ride more, it'll come and the stirrups will stay there. Use to have that problem at both trot and canter - its wayyy better now. (hardly ever happens)
For now, jsut bare with it, it'll come! Keep practicing! For now, get that heel down as far as you can! & often if you have rubbers on yoru stirrups, thsoe help as well.

About knees... got a small bruise on my right knee because I was told to grip with them while I'm rising on the rising trot. How tight should this grip be? My whole leg feels tense because of this.

You should never grip with yoru knee. It creates a pivot point there, which isn't right.

Also, I was on a horse that would just bully me and won't listen or response to leg or seat aids until me or my instructor gave him a good whack with the whip. I don't like that and I think the horse doesn't like that either. What should I do with such horses? If they're so thick-skinned is there really no choice but to whip them?
If your horse will NOT listen to leg or seat aids, a whip is not cruel - its to reinforce those aids. A whip should only be used when necessary; and it sounded like it was necessary as he wasn't listening to you at all.

[stormchaser]

Thank you folks! This morning's lesson went great although the horse was a bit stubborn or probably teasing me because I never rode him before.

No more grippy knees! Everything fell in place! :D

BTW some more Qs: Turning.

My instructor says today's horsie isn't as obedient as he should be--she had to take out a whip (but didn't really use it)--which is why I seem to be having problems turning him. Anyway....

Honestly, I'm not sure what to do with my legs in addition to my reins. Where should my legs be in order to help my horse turn? How much should I pull on the reins, especially if the horse keeps trying to yank them out of my hand every now and then? Too slack and he goes tral-la-la on his own way. Too much and he tries to pull at them. :-/ I can't seem to find the correct rein contact! Is it just me or is it just horsie?

[danielle:>]

Honestly, I'm not sure what to do with my legs in addition to my reins. Where should my legs be in order to help my horse turn?

that sounds like a great lesson :) :D . Well done , it sounds like you have really improved . About this , I always find when turning a horse put your outside leg behind the girth ad your inside leg on the girth and squeeze with both legs . You will have to use a little rein but if you do this you will get a much smoother turn , as your legs stop his hindquaters from falling in or out . And congratulations again on having such a good lesson . I think that when you do it just gives you a happy feelin for the rest of the day :) :D

[dancing-horse]

You might try heel stretches by stnading on a mounting block or curb and putting your heels down to stretch them (while keeping your balance) This should help.

He told you to grip with your knees. This is wrong. This will not help your heel work at all and it makes some horses angry. In case of an emergency, knee gripping can put you off balance. You have to be gripping with your thighs, but not really gripping because You should be supple. You need to be strong in your thighs I should say and hit back.

Stop gripping with your knees and it will be much easier to push the horse on, without having to whip him. Whipping scares the horse, which if caught by surprise could scare or even injure the rider. Use your lower leg and thighs to urge him on and your voice.

[stormchaser]

Hi, forgot to mentioned that for that good lesson, I was with my old instructor and will be going back to her. :) Will try out the advice on turning next lesson and tell y'all how it goes.

[Cheko]

HeeHee! when I had my first lesson in 1960 we were told grip with the knees and keep the lower leg slightly forward. It was that way until about 1970 when styles for everything changed. (I dont think I could ride that way now). Also you rode with shorter stirrups. I tend to ride long anyway because it's more comfortable for my knees as I now have arthritis in them. :eek:

[stormchaser]

LOL did you know what the other instructor told me?

"Let me give you an example for you to think of--in the old calvary school they used to have riders grip a coin between the knees and the saddle. If they dropped it it would be a penalty! So don't let your knees loose!"

Glad to know that's rubbish now. :D Besides, would I want to ride like they did in the old calvary school? :o I work as a political analyst for a non-gov organization whose late founder was a Don Cossack. I was told that although he loved horses and being of Cossack blood, he couldn't ride for nuts--maybe this 'old calvary school' was to blame! LOL! I kept thinking of how many kopeck pieces he had dropped! :D

Hope it doesn't rain tomorrow! Haven't ridden outside for sooooo long!

[tb_rider]

about that whole foot going through the stirrup thing, maybe you need to shorten your stirrups?!