How do i know if shes using her backside properly?

[hApPiNeSs]

I have searched the forums but havnt really found anything

How would you know when a horse is using its back end properly? I half halt happs when shes feeling a little heavy in front but im never sure whether she is working from behind properly, or whether the aid is just making her come off the forehand... :o

[Mehitabel]

off the forehand is pretty much the same as using the back end. when a horse is on the forehand, its weight is on the front legs., when it uses the back end and comes off the forehand, it transfers that weight to the back legs and makes them take more weight and take longer steps.

the best way to develop a feel for it is to have some lessons and get the instructor to tell you when you've got it, and then remember how it feels. it's not something that's easy to explain just in words.

[hApPiNeSs]

i manage to create an outline on the school horses. The trouble is, they are all skinny-minny 16 handers :D and happy is a fat little pony, so it feels different anyway. Thanks, i didnt realise off-the-forehand was the same as using her back end ;)

[Mehitabel]

there are degrees of it - if she is off the forehand she is using her back end, but it doesn't, of course, mean she couldn't be using it more!

[hApPiNeSs]

yep, sure :)

she does always feel more 'energetic' when ive half halted her up off the front end :D

also, i THINK her head is starting to get better. Not so much nose poking, transitions are way better! i think were on the road there... :)

[Loopslou]

if you are working in a sand school look behind you (safely!) if you can and see if she is tracking up properly (or get someone on the ground to let you know that she is) he back shoe should nearly be fitting into the imprint of the front shoe!

Does that sound right?

[hApPiNeSs]

i dont have a sand school :rolleyes:

i dont think i would really be able to tell if i did look anyway :D :D

[Mehitabel]

tracking up also depends on the length of the horse's back and legs though - it's not an infallible guide. a horse with long legs and a short back can track up even when it is not working well, whereas a horse with a long back and proportionally shorter legs will struggle to visibly track up even when it is working really nicely.

it is a useful guide, for an average horse with average conformation, though. you can get someone to watch you from the ground and see how close the back legs are coming.

[hApPiNeSs]

Happy has a very short back and long legs so i think she fits into that catergory.

In canter, however, I just cant get her off the forehand :(

[Loopslou]

never thought of the length of legs/back combination :o

do you feel your horse leans on your hands a lot?

perhaps some lunge work would help were you riding without reins and then without stirrups, really work on your position and see if that also helps get the impulsion you need with your legs and seat to get the horse working underneath you properly.

[Tootsie4U]

When she is working well back there, you *will* feel it! Its unmistakable.

When a horse is *really* moving well, you will feel the back come up to fill the space between your thighs, the hind and fore legs swing dramatically and the horse will become lighter in the bridle.

The thing is, it isnt a one way street. You have to also allow this to happen. Rider balance ( or lack of it ), heavy hands, not understanding impulsion, fighting a head set, constant nagging (half halts, kicking every stride), etc. will hinder a horse from working through the back.

To sum it up, everything needs to be working well together, rider and horse. Both must be balanced. Both must be muscled and conditioned for it mentally and physically.

[Luxie]

In canter, however, I just cant get her off the forehand :(

To help her here, I should think the best thing would be just to ride loads of transitions, trot-canter and (if she can manage it) walk-canter. Once she realises that she's going to need to make these transitions, she will to a certain extent prepare herself for them by working more from behind.

Hope this helps!

[jUmPingIsLifE]

i like walk-canter transitions best for getting a horse off the forhand, when doing downward transitions to a trot with tahoe at least, he just runs into it and its slopy but i can get a nice canter to walk from him and getting into a canter from a walk is also better for him at least. we need to work on our trot-canter transitions!

and you definatly will feel when your horse is using his hind end properly, i know with tahoe i can. you can feel him become more energetic and springy but not faster and you can really feel his back come up under you rounding.

[hApPiNeSs]

I dont know if you read an earlier post, but Happy has not been ridden for most of her life, and is now 16 years old, green and very unathletic. Last night i was working on halt-walk, walk-halt transitions, making her do them with energy., I dont want to rush her and make her dislike her work. I have found that she responds well if i use my voice as well as my other aids when doing transitions. ;)

[cvb]

Happiness

My big sis wants to work on walk-canter with her highland. We had a friend visiting at the weekend who is a BHSI and a very good instructor. She basically said what you are doing i.e. that if you don't have a good halt-walk walk-halt, there's no way you'll get walk-canter.

You've spotted the wither lift with half-halt. The other thing about working from behind is that for the hind leg to come under, the abdominal muscles and back need to lift a bit as well. So you may feel that as well.

Of course when you first create this new energy, the horse may struggle to control it and it goes out the front door (and horse's weight goes forward). Imagine going down hill - if you lean forward you lose balance and are out of control. its like you're going long permantly but not quite falling over :eek:

Now, to balance in this situation, you need to bring your weight back over your feet. Same for the horse.

Some of it can simply come from your own position - so make sure you're not forward in the canter ;) Have an image in your head of that gorgeous "up hill" canter you see posh dressage horse's doing :D


My mum's fell has a pretty awful canter right now. What the instructor had me doing with him was riding canter-trot and then aiming to go into shoulder-fore. I think the aim is to give them an excerise you KNOW will rebalance them. If you do this over a few transitions, they start to anticipate what you are going to ask for and start to rebalance themselves.

Plus if you slowly build the transitions you are already doing, then you can set targets e.g. I'll do canter-trot, 10 strides only of trot, trot-walk, 5 strides walk, walk-halt. This helps you work on your own accuracy, but also gives you something specific to aim for rather than "well I'd like you to slow up some time soon" ;) (This is something I was definitely guilty of - mark rashid picked me up on it !)

[hApPiNeSs]

i think it is more of a rider problem than horse problem in canter ;)

the funny thing is, we can do a lovely canter up hills but not on the flat, which is making me think its me, not her. maybe i am leaning forward to encourage her.

[cvb]

well, she will naturally put her bum under her up a hill, so there could still be an element of her balance in this... also an arena/circle is a confined space. The horse knows this and will adjust for it. A hill - well thats pretty free to move on !

try to think of the canter as a change in the order the legs move, rather than anything else. Get yourself sat in balance, and then just cue for canter.

BTW - this can be very good for improving your cues for canter ! Often we just kind of get sloppy and kick-on and expect something to happen. But having to slow up and be very precise about what you are asking for, makes you revise the cue and hopefully improve it.

With my mare, she had problems with right canter cos of problems with her pelvis being "out". We sorted that but she needed to sort out her co-ordination. I was just sort of asking "canter" not "canter right" so we'd get counter canter instead ;) I had to be more strict with myself and ask for "canter right".

[hApPiNeSs]

also an arena/circle is a confined space. The horse knows this and will adjust for it. A hill - well thats pretty free to move on !

i dont ride in an arena. I did once try to make a makeshift one in a field but i found it was too small for Happy to balance herself correctly and she got very bored

i canter along a track on the bridleway, or in a field. Its naughty, but if i can get a gallop, then move back to canter, its ususally very nice to sit to.

Im not cantering much at the minute, maybe a little bit for her to let off steam or just as a bit of fun. This is mainly because :o she was never taught to canter on a specific 'leg' when she was broken. :o

This problem was made worse, as i learnt to ride on her. Her owner (also her breaker) taught me the cue to canter was just to kick on, which i know better than now of course!

to be honest, i really dont think were in a position to gain that lovely canter just now. Im concentrating on the halt/walk/trot transitions to get her reacting to my leg and really springing herself along instead of pulling from the front end. also im working on halting in a straight line rather than ending up 45 degrees from where we started :o

I can see a summer holiday project emerging ... :D

[cvb]

well by the sounds of it you have a good plan to take you towards that nice canter, and nothing wrong with your gallop first approach either ! That'll get her loose and moving from behind ;)