Stubborn or what!

[Supercali]

I have been using NH techniques with my new cob over the last 3 weeks, which has been amazing. He is a very strong-willed character who doesn't like being told what to do.

He has been quite obliging, though with a scowl on his face sometimes :p

Yesterday I put his rope halter on and rubbed him all over and then asked him to lower his head - but would he! He normally does this straight away. After a few seconds I increased the pressure and again and again but what do I do in these situations as I don't want to be hanging off his head! but I don't want to let him win either!

[Bay Mare]

Ok ... going on my Mark Rashid trip here!

First of all well done on the progress :)

Was there a 'reason' for you asking him to lower his head or was it just as an exercise? Maybe he's telling you that he can do this now so please could you move onto something new!

We don't spend all of our lives at school redoing 2+2=4, if, at the beginning of every maths lesson we were asked to do that again all the way up to A-levels and beyond for no apparent reason then we would be WELL fed up too wouldn't we? Wouldn't we become stubborn and either refuse to do it or comply but grudgingly? Some of us might even kick up a fuss!

Maybe he's saying to you "Ok, mum, I can do this now and I'm NOT doing it again ...... NEXT!" If you look at his behaviour ... compliance, then compliance with a scowl and then 'for gawds sake NO' then I believe that this is exactly what he's telling you :)

If you really want to do this exercise why not do it for a reason? Ask him to lower his head to have the headcollar put on, for instance. There is a reasoning to that. If he can do it well now why not just move onto something else that is more challenging for him?

Good luck :)

[Supercali]

Thanks Bay Mare - you've probaly hit the nail on the head.

He does get bored with things quite easily but also he is still 'testing' me as I have only had him for 3 weeks.

Yesterday I went to get him in from the field as normal but this time he kept walking away from me so when he went to eat grass I waggled the leadrope at him, after 2 minutes he stood there and let me put the headcollar on (licking and chewing)

Me 1 Cob 0 :D

[cvb]

... also drawing on Mark as a source... be aware of what you might be teaching your horse.

if you keep on asking and only stop when the horse's resists, what are you teaching him ?

Bascically everytime he offers the right answer, but you ask again, its like you are saying to him "nope, got it wrong - try again !". Then when you ask and he finds a way to make you stop asking - aha - I got it right at last - THATS what she wants !!

And lo and behold you have taught him the exact opposite of what you wanted :D

Now of course - nothing in what you have written indicates that this is what you have been doing.

So - how were you asking ? (from the poll, with the rope from the chin ?). Did you escalate the cue, and if so, how long did you wait each time before increasing the "ask" ?

As you probably know, one of the principles of NH is to start with a small ask (Parelli would call it phase 1) and wait for a try, then go up the phases til you get the response - and as soon as you get the smallest try, you stop asking and reward (e.g. "rub him to a stop").

[Supercali]

I was asking him by putting a slight down pressure on the rope to act on the poll. I only ask slightly and then after about 3 seconds increase the pressure (althgou I have never needed to do this before as he usually moves his head down).

After about 5 increases in pressure he eventually moved his head down very slightly and so I released the pressure and gave him a scratch on his withers.

[hackedoff]

I'd put his feet to work if he doesnt comply- back up, circle, sideways then ask again.

[cvb]

I was asking him by putting a slight down pressure on the rope to act on the poll. I only ask slightly and then after about 3 seconds increase the pressure (althgou I have never needed to do this before as he usually moves his head down).

After about 5 increases in pressure he eventually moved his head down very slightly and so I released the pressure and gave him a scratch on his withers.

Ok - so what's the problem ? The only thing you need to watch is that you don't "teach" him to wait for the most pressure before he responds. So if next time round, he doesn't yield quicker, you may need to try a faster escalation through the phases, i..e less time before each increase.

[katefarmer]

Not lowering the head is generally because the opposition reflex has been activated and the horse is pushing back against the pressure.

Instead of putting on more pressure, if you put your thumb in the groove under the chin between the jaw bones and push the head up a bit, it will then automatically come down when you take your thumb away. As it lowers, join in with a light halter pressure which you release immediately. When the head stops, ask lightly again and it will lower its head further. Raising the head "unlocks" the opposition reflex.

Cheers

Kate
www.harmony-project.net

[Supercali]

Thanks for that advice Kate, I will keep in mind in case he does this again but luckily he has been more willing.

I think he just keeps trying to test me out with different things every few days!

A couple of days later it was the 'you aren't going to catch me' one but I soon put a stop to that.

He is definitely doing great - a lot different from the bargy horse that turned up. His previous owners must have had these problems (but denied it) as when I take him to the field he tries to spit out the bit, when he hasn't got one in, so must have been lead out in a bridle most of the time.