Does a horse have to work in an outline?

[No_Angel]

I rode my horse yesterday and it was great fun, for the first time in ages I actually had fun scholing and didn't worry about my horse working in a shape and just worked on doing movement and slowing her down.
I was thinking, shes 15 and deserves a bit of fun, I want to do a few shows and fun rides and le trec and stuff like that.
She tracks up quite nicely and does movements quite well, can get a bit unbalanced at times and can rush a bit but thats nothing really.

Do you think that I could get away with her not working in a shape or can the horse only work correctly if in a shape? Do people look on you as a better rider if your horse is in a shape, its not that I can't get a horse to work in a shape its just I don't see a point with this horse, my other horse I usaully always want him to work in an outline.

[jUmPingIsLifE]

no- your horse does not have to work in an outline. expacailly on trails i let my horses do whatever.

however its easier for a horse to carry a rider if its rounding its back. being in a specific outline should never be about making a horse look pretty but to use proper muscles and carry himself propery so that its easier for him to carry the rider. i remember reading a great website that explained this in debth but i dont know if i can find it again. i'll look for it later tonight, but if you want google search something like "why getting a horse round is important" or "why being on the bit is so important"

[Drummers mum]

I'd be really interested to hear peoples views on this.

A question, do you see wild horses running round in an outline?

[No_Angel]

My horse works with her head low but out, sometimes, especially when bending, she can work in a shape, but at the moment I let her choose if she does or not, I just want her to wok from behind.
Most people are very hooked up if their horse is in a shape or not, not it actually working properly.

[Showjumper]

I like it when Dolly's working properly from behind. She feels more powerful and is easier to stop/steer as she's off her forehand. I don't really mind what the head does but she tends to naturally tuck it in if I take up a contact, or stretch nicely if I give her the reins...

[jUmPingIsLifE]

http://www.tes-laec.com/facts/tes/vandahn/on-the-bit.html


this goes into it a little, but its not as good as the one i read earlier.

[Bay Mare]

A question, do you see wild horses running round in an outline?

No, but then you don't see them running around with saddles and riders on their backs and bits in their mouths either :D

It is preferable, balance and muscle wise, if a horse is working 'correctly' (ie from behind) though you don't need the 'dressage' outline. As riders we are sitting more on their forehand and they are 'naturally' more on their forehand. It is, therefore, more beneficial for them to bring their weight back onto the hindquarters so that the forehand isn't loaded. It's a case of compensating for having a rider on board. A horse that has a good topline and is well muscled is much more likely to be able to cope with the workload and will be better balanced.

As Showjumper said they are also easier to steer and stop when they are working correctly ... get them with their heads in the air and their weight on the forehand and you've no chance :eek:

[No_Angel]

I know when horses are working correctly when in an outline, I know how to encourage a horse to work in an outline, and I know that if the bums working correctly the head will come down and in when its ready.
I must be doing something right as my horse has got topline (back muscle and neck muscle developing) and ive trained two of my other horses to work correctly, been to college for two years learning in ins and outs of it, and was asked by my last boss whether I wanted to compete her horse who has the ability to go to the top in dressage.

Ive had so much focus recently on working the horse in an outline, and what people will be to achieve this 'correct way of going' an im a bit bored with it!
My other horse Amber was a great horse until I took her into a dressage competition and the judge told me she should be working in an outline, after this I wanted her in an outline and then her behaviour started to change and she is now a rearer who I can't ride in the school at all. I didn't force her into an outline,I went to pony club and they instruted me how to ride her and how to get the best out of her and she got sick of it.

Does a horse really have to be working in a 'shape' (head in and working from behind) to be working correctly (working from behind)? Why dod we want their heads in anyway? What does this achieve?

[hackedoff]

I've seen Harry, an ex-dressage horse at our yard, do a half-pass in a beautiful outline out in the paddock.................

[eventerbabe]

i'm in agreement with showjumper, all i care about is that toby is working through from behind and using himself properly. not fussed about the front end, infact my instructor encourages me to work him long and low at the front because he has a tendancy to stick his nose in the air. too many people are obsessed about "outline" and 99% of people i know who claim to work their horses in an outline are actually riding in a false outline i.e. by fiddling the reins and the horse isn't using his bum at all.

[hApPiNeSs]

I've seen Harry, an ex-dressage horse at our yard, do a half-pass in a beautiful outline out in the paddock.................

Brilliant! :D Proof that some horses DO actually like dressage! :D :D :D

[Wobblydeb]

As riders we are sitting more on their forehand and they are 'naturally' more on their forehand. It is, therefore, more beneficial for them to bring their weight back onto the hindquarters so that the forehand isn't loaded. It's a case of compensating for having a rider on board.
So..... (and forgive me if I am being ridiculous here) :o .... why don't we sit further back? Is it something to do with where we can get a girth to stay put? :)

The main example I think of are horse breeds where their physiology does not lend itself to the front end working in a stereotypical outline - like Arabs. What then?

[Lucy J]

my horse works in a lovely outline (in the paddock!) just not under saddle!

[jUmPingIsLifE]

I am not sure a saddle would stay on that far back?

also if we were to sit to far back we should be sitting on the kidneys which also wouldn't be very good.
:D :D :D im still trying to imagion if we were to ride sitting further back and i keep geting such weird images!

[cvb]

So..... (and forgive me if I am being ridiculous here) :o .... why don't we sit further back? Is it something to do with where we can get a girth to stay put? :)


Wobbleydeb - there is a limit to where we can sit and put a saddle which is dictated by where the ribs are (true ribs, not the floating ones further back).

re: "outlines" - the appropriate outline for a horse depends on the work they do. A horse ridden long distance in an advanced dressage outline would tire quickly. the "most efficient" outline varies with what you want them to do.

So if you just want to hack, trail ride etc - I would look for a straight, forward, etc outline - but not a "dressage" outline - something longer and lower and less tiring.

[Colorado Sunset]

Originally Posted by Wobblydeb, So..... (and forgive me if I am being ridiculous here) .... why don't we sit further back? Is it something to do with where we can get a girth to stay put?


Never noticed that when you sit on a horses loins, further back, they buck? :D Its far more sensitive and not as easy for them to carry your weight if you sit here.

Jo

[Kanuma]

also the loins are a weak area so not upto supporting as much weight!
ive never asked stan to tuck his head in, it comes down to where it should be naturaly when he starts working properly!

[Drummers mum]

No, but then you don't see them running around with saddles and riders on their backs and bits in their mouths either

Point taken! I knew I shouldn't have said that when I did! :D

[michelle c]

no they dont have to work in an outline to be working properly!! we use our arms for balance, horses use their necks!!!! if a horse becomes unbalanced in the trot or canter etc. they stick their necks out to compensate!!!! i ride my pony on a loose rein so she is not on the bit, when i ask for small circles, back up or sideways she automatically rounds her neck, she has to be more elivated and collected without my help to do these things i do not ask or force an outline! alot of people force an outline and this can do more bad than good even when they dont know they are doing it, a horse should be ridden through the seat and leg and THEN encouraged to soften through the littlest of feel through the reins!!! if you see western horses, they are worked on a loose rein to work cattle, this is so they can keep their balance, also western horses are ridden on loose reins and if ridden properly (loose reins most the time) you never see a ewe necked western horse!!!! also alot of western ttrained horses have a natural rounding of the neck when been ridden because they have learned to carry the weight of the rider and balance themselves with out the rider making them go in an outline!! hope this helps :D

[notpoodle]

i think its good when horses track under and use their behind but im really not hell-bent on an outline or all this 'on the bit' malarky. i used to keep pony at a dressagey yard ... got to witness some horrible scenes with horses in 'outlines' and 'on the bit' ... chin wedged into chest, seesawing riders etc etc. not a pretty sight!

im not too fussed about outline with my pony, although i obviously dont want her slouching along on the forehand all the time because it cant do her any good!

julia
x

(on a bit of a high today because we cantered in what resembled an outline!!!)

[Nicole5310]

If we sat further back the saddle would have to be designed very differently cos it would end up on the side of the horse. Also like others said its not a strong part of the back, but it has nothing to do with kidneys, they are several inches below the surface of the back. And we sit where the centre of gravity is. If we sat further back the horse would not be able to use his loin muscles efficiently due to our weight therefore not work behind.

A horse deffinately can work behind without being in an outline. Picture this a horse is elastic and swinging through his body, sensitive to the aids and light on the forehand, stretching and arching his neck slightly. However he always has his nose poking out slightly and never really looks particularly round because of how his head is set to his neck. Some judges are experienced enough to know this is correct and the horse wins by miles in the competition. Others slam the horse for being strung out. Other horses have straight necks and it just lets his head hang he is deffinately on the vertical but there is not the slightest bit of rounding in his neck. Both thses horses could be well engaged and powerful. My Point is outline is largely perception, even though there is an ideal. Its also different for every horse.


A horse can be brilliant in his work, light and expressive but never be on the vertical. So if you get the lightness and the horse is "on the aids" then it is working. Who cares what the head is doing since that doesnt matter anyway. If your horse is working and balanced then let her have her head out a bit, it doesnt mean that your not schooling, schooling is about obedience
and partnership.

Having said that to get a horse engaged you usually have to work it on the bit first then let it out or most will just slop along with hocks trailing.

[Cheko]

It's very difficult to get a horse/pony to use its self correctly if they have a long back. You have to work harder to make the hind feet overstep the front feet (that's if you can ever achieve it)! Falcon is very short backed and has no trouble using his back end when asked to do so. He way oversteps the front hoof prints. However, when he is 'using' himself, he is quite bouncy. I would also say, that once you get your horse/pony using its backend, be careful not to let all this 'correct way of going and power' go out the front door by not having the correct contact (and control) on the front end! folk are obsessed with what the back end is doing and pay little attention to the front end! However, I wouldn't say he works in an outline, just works off his forehand! : :confused:

[joosie]

My friend is obsessed with riding in an outline - all the time!! It's fine for her own horse, because they are into dressage and county-level showing, but on our trail riding holiday last year she was trying to keep the horse in an outline ALL DAY!!! Riding 6 hours a day across Wales, and she wanted the poor thing to track up and tuck her nose in all the time!

[Cheko]

Why are folk so obsessed with outlines? Every moving creature has an outline. Just happens that most moving creatures, except horses that is, haven't been 'screwed' into one via mechanical aids!!!!!!