Thoughts on Pessoa system?

[SarahC]

Someone I was talking to today, mentioned that they had used the Pessoa training system on occassion and felt it was good for helping to build correct muscle and to encourage the horse to bring his hindquarters underneath him.

Just wondered what your opinions were of it?

S

[charlotte+jill!]

yup that is what it does, my mum old instructor used one and always said it was the best thing for lunging definatly great for youngesters in because it builds up all the correct muscles and as you said makes the work from behind correctly.

oooh and you can get then at a good price on ebay (where he got his lol!!)

[Yann]

Never used one myself, but I've heard a few people who I wouldn't normally associate with using gadgets speak well of them, they are good for building muscle and encouraging a correct way of going.

[$@R@H]

Whats a Pessoa System? :)

[Bay Mare]

From what I've heard they are more acceptable because they don't force the horse to work in an outline and have different 'level's depending on where you attach them on the roller.

$@R@H - the Pessoa is used when you're lunging and consists of a variety of ropes and pulleys and has a 'breach' strap which goes behind the hindquarters. It's supposed to be gentler and work with the horse rather than using force. As with anything, though, it has to be used and adjusted correctly.

As Yann says, people who are against gadgets will use the Pessoa. I would be interested to see it in action as I am usually very anti-gadget.

http://www.carouselsaddlery.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/20016.jpg

Does anyone have a copy of the 'instructions'? It would be interesting to see how it works?

[$@R@H]

Ahhhh. I thought it was one of those!
We have one of those and use it when lungeing the eventers. Most of them got used to get but a few can't stand it. They just buck and buck.

[SarahC]

Ahh thats interesting! I'm totally anti-gadget usually (and I mean totally!), but heard such good things about it that I thought I'd ask opinions from you lot!

definatly great for youngesters in because it builds up all the correct muscles and as you said makes the work from behind correctly.
Hmmmm....so could be good for Spangly being a 5 year old then. However, I will stress that if I did, it would only be with the instruction and guidance of my riding teacher!!

Although she is being schooled once a week by my instructor, I still worry that as I'm not that experienced and still working on my riding ability, I won't be helping her to build her muscle correctly or working her totally correctly from behind. I want to make sure everything I do with her is right and she grows up as she should do! :D

S

ps. From what I hear, a Pessoa was used on her occassionally at stubley, which also prompted my question.

[popdog]

It is a great tool for horses who need to build up muscle especially when recovering from injury, but it really depends on the horse. Some work well with it, some can't stand it.

We tried to use one on an ex-racer with navicular to help correct his way of going (on advice from the vet and a professional trainer), however he hated it with a passion. So we gave up as it was just too stressful for him. We had been told by the previous owners that he went well in one.

Can you borrow one from someone to try it out?

Does you horse have a specific problem that requires a pessoa? If not then personally I'd stick to lessons, normal schooling and hacking. Sounds like you are doing a good job already :)

Using a Pessoa regularly you run the risk of getting the horse fitter without improving your own fitness/riding.

I'm sure your instructor will be able to advise if it will be advantageous for you and how often/how long you should use it for.

[chewitmonster]

My groundwork instructor teaches a livery at my yard (ridden) and they use the pessoa on Jazz almost every week. Jazz is an ex-polo pony and so is very giraffe-necked - everytime you ask her to move up a gear her head shoots into your face. The pessoa encourages, but doesn't force, her head to go long and low. The owner is not very confident at the moment, tends to get off if Jazz flings her head up and this has really helped her see Jazz in a new light.

The instructor is really into NH (uses a mixture of methods) and is against gadgets but really reccommends it for her. Speak to your instructor and see what they think, I'm tempted with Silver but want to get him long-reining etc first so that I know he's comfortable with ropes everywhere! We tried last week by putting a long line right round him (mimicking long-reining etc) and he didn't move a muscle...my god take fly spray near him and he's off!! :rolleyes: typical xxx

[SarahC]

Its not something I'd use all the time, maybe just an addition from time to time to encourage things. I'm also encouraged to use it as the previous owners did...again not all the time, just on occassion.

The owner is not very confident at the moment, tends to get off if Jazz flings her head up and this has really helped her see Jazz in a new light.
Hmmm....I don't want to say this is the reason I would use it HOWEVER, I also tend to get more nervous when her head flings up...this is my fault as I have got it into my head that when their head raises, their pulse rate goes up etc etc etc...(read this in numerous different places). All psychological but that's how it tends to be with us nervous nellies I think!!!

So anyway, all in all, it seems to have some good reviews.

Sounds like you are doing a good job already

Thats a very nice thing to say..thank you!!! I'm trying very hard... :o

S

[Ginger Thing]

We use one on both our horses - although several people said horses buck and object, ours both took to it straightaway, but they are used to being touched all over with ropes etc; if the horse is new to it,get him used to having a lunge line round his bum and touching his hocks.

It does help them to work properly from behind; if OH's horse is lunged with no 'gadgets' he just goes round holding his head and neck stiff and rigid, and just will not soften at all (he does under saddle),doesn't use himself correctly and frankly it's a waste of time as he's not using the right muscles and we'd be better off riding him!In the Pessoa, he works really round and soft - he is a skinny TB who was off work all winter with an abcess, so we are using the Pessoa to build up his topline again.

My TB never even breaks a sweat during ridden flatwork, but after 20 mins in the Pessoa he really looks like he's worked hard!

[chewitmonster]

Hmmm....I don't want to say this is the reason I would use it HOWEVER, I also tend to get more nervous when her head flings up

Yeah for Jazz it's to work the muscle on the top of the neck as she is so used to tensing and holding her head high there is just no muscle there at all. It's an added bonus for her owner as it makes her see that she can work nicely and it helps the instructor show her what she wants to work towards. All in all it's really good for her. xxx

[SarahC]

oooh and you can get then at a good price on ebay (where he got his lol!!)

Just had a look on ebay and not convinced that most of them are genuine Pessoa's. The seem to be going for around £30 and alot say 'virtually identical to those costing £80!'

Maybe I'll have to fork out the £80?? :eek:

No-one I know has one I could borrow either!

S

[Mossy]

the design principles behind the pessoa are very simple - rope clip and pulley. I could make a similar item for about a tenner! I woukd not shell out for a genuine one!

[FreedomStar]

i'm curious, what happens if a horse gets spooked or worked up during training when using this system? Wouldn't he get caught and tangled in all the ropes? unless the ropes broke under that sort of strain....

[mu0ljk]

Hi!

I have one and it really does work well. As Sarah C said its a set of pulleys and rope. It encourages rather than forces the horse into the 'correct' position, and you can set it in different positions depending on what level of work your horse is at. It has ropes around the back legs which encourages the horse to bring his back legs under him. And although I was expecting some spooks at the rope behind them, other then a few shoots forward none of the horses were too bothered.

We have had it on all sorts of shapes and sizes - and some of them really seem to like the jangly sound of the pulleys as they work! It adjusts to all sizes - we have had it on a 12.2hh and a 17.2 with ones in between!

Freedom Star the ropes do on occasion come undone but I think this may be a safety device as much as anything so that if the horse really objects to it and panics they won't feel restricted and tied in. If they do come undone you simply do them back up again.

But I have had positive results from it - it is harder work than lunging so you are advised to not use it for quite as long. But I would reccomend it. I got mine from ebay quite cheaply. Just make sure you get one with english instructions! :rolleyes: :D I got mine from georgiegirl18 off of ebay and its fine (with english instructions!). Actually I looked at one in a shop and the instructions that came with mine were made by the seller but were much better and more in-depth than the 'real' ones - I would reccomend her if she is still sellign any.

Oh and it is best used with a training girth with all the extra rings on them to give you a bit more choice and adjustment.

Hope it helps!

[StormyJ]

Have to say that the first time I saw it I thought "if you need that many ropes and pulleys on your horse you ain't doing it right!" :D . Just looks a bit unnatural to me, I think you should encourage your horse to go like that, not force him. But i'm sure it works great, just would use it myself.

[Bay Mare]

I got mine from georgiegirl18 off of ebay and its fine (with english instructions!).

Oh and it is best used with a training girth with all the extra rings on them to give you a bit more choice and adjustment.


I'll second georgiegirl, she's a fantastic seller, very helpful, very honest and was a great help when my rug went 'missing' somewhere in transit between her and me (my neighbour had taken it in, didn't bring it around, was never in and wouldn't reply to my messages ... I finally got it after threatening them with the police :rolleyes: ).

Which training roller did you get? I'm looking for a roller anyway and would prefer to get one that can be used with a Pessoa if I ever make the decision to try one ... mmmm, turning into a gadget girl?

From what I hear, a Pessoa was used on her occassionally at stubley, which also prompted my question.

Oh duh! Yes, of course, that's why Saff was so chilled when she was first long reined! She had been lunged in a Pessoa! http://images.kuro.ph/smilies/emotikons/lightbulb.gif

Does anyone have a copy of the instructions that they could e-mail to me? I would be interested to see how it works?

Ta

x

[Silmarien]

Hmm, I was also wondering about this Pessoa system, not for use on my horse, cause I;m also one of those anti-gadget soldiers :D And searching for opinions, I found this:
http://www.kahlin.net/noir/dressyr/tack/gadgets.php#pessoa
The Pessoa System

During the Pessoas' total reign in showjumping in the 80's and 90's many "inventions" came from their barn. One was the Pessoa Gag Bit, which I speak of elsewhere, which is a combination of a driving bit and an elevator gag, and then the Pessoa Training System used for lungeing. This system is supposed to get the horse to stretch down AND engage the hindlegs forward, and thus be good for the back. I have seen it at work several times, and whilst it does get the horse to lower his head on the lunge, the most glaring effect of this contraption is that it succeeds in jabbing the horse in the mouth with each push of the hindlegs.

It has a semi-intricate pulley system that via a lunge-girth connects the gaskins with the mouth. I guess the rope is supposed to encourage the horse to grasp forward with the hindlegs. But which is more sensitive - the skin on the hocks or the mouth!? The horse will be encouraged to roll down but not stretch to the bit, because the bit jabs at the mouth with each step. Now this is mechanical if anything!

I have also never seen any horse truly engage in this "system", only go on the forehand and curl behind the bit. It can be adjusted lower (for more stretch) and higher (for collection) but it seems to have very little such effect.

[Bay Mare]

Thank you for that link, it certainly made interesting reading.

The only thing that I would say, though, is that if you go through her site she condemns pretty much everything, even stuff (I'm thinking of the gel-eze pad) that well reknowned people advocate. She also says that side reins have no 'give' in them which is strange because every pair of side reins that I've seen has had some kind of elastic or rubber ring in them. We had to use them when we were doing lunging for our NVQ training and I never saw any horse that was overbent, they were fitted correctly and weren't used to winch their heads in. I suppose that you can say that about anything, though, even reins can be 'bad' if the hands on the end of them are bad.

I wouldn't discount what she has said about the Pessoa necessarily but I would certainly want to take more viewpoints before making a decision :)

[mu0ljk]

Bay Mare this is the one I got - I original got a cob sized one for my pony who I no longer have I now use it on my normally full sized horses - so long as they haven't been stuffing their belly's full of grass!! ;)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=47296&item=7156148986&tc=photo

You can't see in the photo but it has (I assume its the same as mine!) rings under the belly.

I'll see if I can dig out the instructions but I wouildn't hold out too much hope!! I haven't seen them for a long time! :rolleyes:

[FudgieFoo]

I think its brill.

I used one on my mare while she was recovering from a bad back and it encourage her to stretch and use the stiff muscles. She's been going brill since coming back into work so its deff a positive!

[ridingwood]

I've just found this website by accident whilst looking for any more information about the Pessoa. I have also just bought one from e-bay and it seems to work very well on my 5 year old cob. I don't have a school and so I lunge her in the field, previously I lunged her in long reins which she didn't like much, kept trying to pull away and throw her shoulder out. She's one of those types of horse which has more shoulder than bum and is always on the forehand, she makes me tired riding her because she just wants to lean on me and ignore my leg, so it was recommended that I try her in a Pessoa. She goes very well in it, it is still early days so I can't see any physical results yet but I'm hoping that it will help to 'sit' her hocks more under her. The instructions are very straightforward, you don need extra rings on the roller but the first position is to clip the rope back to the girth thfought the forelegs. If you do get hold of a set of instructions it might confuse you, the easiest way is to take the instructions with the Pessoa and fit it on your horse a bit at a time. I was waiting for the explosion which I used to get with the long reins behind the hind legs but the Pessoa is lined with sheepskin and elastic under so it is quite forgiving. As for the tugging on the mouth, that would only really happen if it was adjusted very tightly - my instructions say to put the lunge-rein over the head from the outside bit ring and back to your hand through the inside bit ring (like we used to lunge in the old days!), and to use your contact from your hand to the mouth as if the horse was being ridden. I also got mine from e-bay-I think it was discount equestrian, the one with the picture of the grey horse, but I think they're all much of a muchness. My chiropractor also recommends them because they work the topline and the back.