Jumping: left behind on landing?

[rabbit]

I seem to be getting left behind as my horse lands after a jump.. (I think). I'm a jumping newbie so can someone have a look and see what am I doing wrong?

here are some images.

[rabbit]

Here are some more images of a different jump. This time I thought I was going to take a dive on landing....

I can actually see the sunlight on the saddle, right where my butt should be.

I think part of the problem is that the horse has jumped far too high for the jump ?

Am I supposed to grip with my knees or something? My body moves into jumping position on its own - I dont try to go into 2 point or anything for these small jumps.

[nirikina]

I'm not very experienced, but I think you're not folding enough and sitting up way too early. From the first set of pictures:

1. You've started to fold a little, but you're also standing up in your stirrups so your bum is out of the saddle.
2. As the horses hind end comes up you've come back to vertical and your bum is back in the saddle but the horse is still over the jump - you'll feel the jolt when the horse lands
3. On landing the horse pulls the reins which pulls your arms and pulls your body fowards
4. As above
5. You're vertical and ready to get going again before the horse has gotten over the jump completely

And now what you're aiming for:
1. Relax your legs, stay sitting but let your hips fold your body forwards - imagine your belly button is tied to the pommel with elastic
2. Still folded, let your hands follow the horses mouth so it can stretch
3. As the horses back end comes up the saddle will come up to meet your bum though you'll still be balanced in jumping position
4. You can start to sit up a bit but still giving with the reins
5. You should be coming back to upright and about to transfer your weight back into the saddle, gathering up the reins but still a gentle contact

Anyone more experienced please feel free to correct me :D

[jUmPingIsLifE]

if you work over small cross rails work on STAYING in your 2-point well after the jump and as you put the jumps up a little still practice staying in your 2point well after the landing.

never never never grip with your knees no matter what or you very well may take a nose dive. you need to relax your leg and let your weight fall into your heels which is impossible if you are gripping. also you can grab some mane over the jump, its better then snagging your horse in the mouth accidently.

so go ahead and get into your 2point way before getting to the jump and before the jump move your hands up and grab some mane and stay in the 2 point until you are way away from the jump. even practice riding in your 2point while warming up too.

[3 day eventer]

jumpingislife is absolutely right dont grip with your knees.
from the pictures your take of point looks ok but your hands need to move with the horses head instead of bracing against it. You have a good honest horse there and the horse is only doing what has been asked. It looks as though your stirrups could go up a few holes as this would help you maintain your position. My show jumping length is 4 holes higher than my dressage length and my xc lenght is 2 higher than that. You should not stand up or lean forward but fold from the hip.
The reason you are getting left behind is because you are not moving with the horse. If you can practise in poise posititon around the school in walk, trot and canter then you can progress to working round in your jumping position. (poise position is basically the position you take up when galloping and when galloping between xc jumps, You should be light of the saddle and your hand should move with the horses head.) Once this is establishedthen it should be a bit easier for you.
Try folding a few strides before take of and maintaining that exact same position until a few strides after landing. Move your hands up the horses neck along with the movement of the horses head, fold at the stomach. Push your lower leg forwards holding your heel down, when your leg moves forwards then you should find your bottom lifts off the saddle a bit easier, if you stirrups are short enough.
It is often easier to practise starting with shorter stirrups and as you become more experienced with jumping lengthen them to a lenght thet is comfortable for you.
Hope this helped let us know how you get on and post some more pictures! :p

[kedwards]

I agree with the advice given, but wanted to add that you'll want to allow your weight to sink into your heels much more than it is. It can help to bring your stirrup iron a little farther forward on your foot, so that your ankle is more flexible. As your approach, go over the jump, and land, focus on keeping your heels down and maintaining some weight in them.

[mustang fan]

I really really dont want to be mean but I have been jumping for quite awhile and I used to that same thing to! :rolleyes:
Well you can work on:

1.) two point. you have to be in two point until your horse lands completly. :)

2.) balance. if it helps to keep yourself balance you can grab a piece of the horses mane :D

3.)griping. when I was taught to jump I was told griping is every thing (but be able to move with the horse at the some time). If you were to go over a jump and be depending on your stirriup irons and werent griping you would fall off if you loose your irons.Also if you dont grip you tend to point your toes. :rolleyes:

The main thing you need to work on is two point :D . if you dont have proper form you can really get hurt. I have seen some pretty bad jumping spills and most of them were because they didnt stay in two point. for example on of the girls I used to take lessons with did the same thing you did (leaning back over jump) and she ened up loosing her reins and a stirruip.She feel and got draged :eek: . even though I was just watch the lesson with a friend it scared the wits out of me!

I have never seen you ride so I cant really see how you do but I am sure you are a very good rider! :)

Mustang Fan

[FreedomStar]

To me it looks like you're kind of 'sticking' in one position when you start the jump. I know being new to jumping it might be difficult to learn so much, but take it one step at a time. Pick a spot beyond the jump and watch that spot. When you come up to the jump, let your hands go forward just a little in a small release, following the topline of the horse. That will help the horse to stretch out, and in turn your body will naturally fall into the jump position and will adjust your gravity over the jump. Don't think about sitting down in the saddle after the jump. Keep your elbows in, and remember to release, it will really help you! The two-point exercise will help a lot. Have you tried doing a bounce yet? Where two jumps are so close the horse jumps in then out. That might help you get a feel for how it is, because in a bounce the horse will naturally jump as soon as he lands and you need to be out of the saddle so that you can clear both jumps. However I do not suggest this with large jumps. Just stick to small jumps for now until you get the hang of it and feel more confident.

[Bay Mare]

Hi :)

I would like to see some pictures of the approach, very often the problems start WAY before the jump. It would also be interesting to see photos of you on the flat.

From the pics that you've posted, though, a couple of points that the others have picked up on:

I agree that your stirrups look too long, try shortening them a couple of holes to start with and see how it goes from there.

You're riding in a 'chair' seat (legs forward, bum back) which won't help your problem. Lots of work on the flat will help this PLUS do some work on the flat and over poles at going from 3-point to light seat to 2-point. In 2-point you should think more about pushing your butt to the back of the saddle, keep your weight into your heels (they can go forward a BIT but not as much as you're doing) and your arms forward, you seem to be fixing your arms and leaning over the top of them. You need to think of your ankles and knees as 'shock absorbers' so you're like a spring, compact but able to absorb the movement. More weight down into your heels and keeping your bottom back will help with this. If the horse were taken away from you, you should land on your feet, if you look at how you are sat you would fall backwards!

You look as though you're sitting up before you've even got over the jump and because of the 'chair' position you have no option but to fall back.

These aren't problems that can't be solved with lessons, practise and time but you will have to work on your position both on the flat and jumping. Grid work is always a good thing to do even if it's only over teensy tiny jumps as it MAKES you get in rhythm and helps with your balance. Leaning back too quickly is the opposite of what a lot of people do, a lot of people stay forward for too long and don't sit back!

Do you have lessons? If you don't it would be a good idea, I learned so much and improved my position immensely by having lessons.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/TashaKat/Rabbit2.gif . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/TashaKat/Rabbit1.gif

[Merlinz gal]

i agree with the others really , i have the opposite problem to you i dont sit up landing from a jump i still lean foward which at welshjumpers yard nearly un horsed me :p (straight over the neck :D )

[FreedomStar]

ah, that animation that bay mare posted makes it much easier. From that I can see that you are sitting down waaaaay too early so you are being jarred out of the saddle on the landing. Don't sit down so early, it's very uncomfortable, yes? Stay up in your 2 position.

[3 day eventer]

Yeah from that video it is easier to see what is happening. As I said earlier the take of is quite nice but as soon as the horse moves off from underneath you (which is obviously a new wierd feeling for you) , you almost look as though you are panicking, therefore loosing you balance and bracing against the horse!
This feeling will never change the horses jump will always feel the same,you have a good horse there with a lovely jump make the most of it and dont be put off by it.
Try to stay in your 2 point position on the approach and hold that until a few strides after landing.
Dont panick, it is natural to feel that bbracing against the horse will keep you more secure but it is more likely to unseat you and make you unbalanced makeing you more vulnerable if something happened mid flight or if the horse nipped to one side on landing.
Use your heels as weight bearers and keep them down, as the weight falls through your heels you should feel secure in that!
Stick with my previous advice and add it all up.
It will all come with time and practise. Good luck!

[3 day eventer]

in this picture I got left behind and it felt so terrible.
Luckily this was just the practise jump and we did well in our class!
But my point is not everyone gets it right all the time, im not new at jumping and although this picture was taken a year ago I still like to learn and improve my riding all the time.
I do compete and love to jump occassionally I do get left behind as you can see but dont get down about it, youve got forever to improve!

[carrimclaren]

ah, that animation that bay mare posted makes it much easier. From that I can see that you are sitting down waaaaay too early so you are being jarred out of the saddle on the landing. Don't sit down so early, it's very uncomfortable, yes? Stay up in your 2 position.

Agree with freedomstar here. I always have the opposite problem like merlinz gal, i need to work on sitting up after the jump :) To be honest though i always find i either get on with a horse when jumping or i just can't get used to it. I'm still a novice and i jumped several different horses when having lessons and there was one who i just could not get on with but who was one of the best horses up there for jumping. He was a hunter who always loved showjumping as well but he was so powerful that i always found it really hard to sit with him and used to end up getting left behind.
On the other hand as soon as i sat on this one horse my position improved as she was calm and steady and i seemed to know when she was going therefore i relaxed. In the end i bought her :p

But don't worry too much, it really does become easier as you do more and relax more. I do agree that you need to work on going with the horse and not sitting up so quickly but i think that with time and more jumping this will come as you learn to trust the horse and yourself :)

[rabbit]

Thanks for all the details replies. I have read them all many times over.

I do have lessons, but this was the first time I had gone out jumping on my own.

I showed my instructor the photos too, and got some feedback.

I need to adopt a driving seat and strong contact on my approach to the jumps, otherwise Merlin will take off too early. This means that approaching in 2 point is not really feasible.

Elbows and rein length are a definite problem, and we spent some time last night in a lesson going over ground poles at canter. When I have the reins shorter, I feel like I'm leaning forwards too much, but my instructor says that Im not.

I also need to practice getting impulsion and collection at canter. (my homework!)

Much of Merlin's rear end lifting is due to my leaning back and his lack of impulsion, so I am working on a less bum intensive canter, with more lower leg and less holding with my knees.

I also don't bend from the hips, which is due to the "bum stuck on the saddle"
canter seat I have.

Apparently I did well in my lesson last night, although I felt quite insecure. The muscles down the backs of legs are a bit sore today... More evidence that I've not been riding correctly.....


Thanks again everyone.. I 'll do some more practicing then try the jumps again, and post the results.

[Cheeky]

Heya ...

I am glad you posted this question, because I have the answer :) hehe ... Its so obvious, but I dont think people (I am not pointing fingers, honest! ** a real brilliant rider!! love the horse ... looks familiar to one in Aust lol!!) realise how important riding with feel is ...

If, for example, you were having a lesson, and your instructor asked u to drop the reins and ride the jump without hands ... how do you think u'd go?? I think you need to find ** jumping seat - and stick it. Its really hard to explain, but your body movement should move with the horse, almost like you are part of the horse. As the horse goes up, you lean forwards, as they jump, you sit up, as they land, you sit back a little ... like a smooth motion ... I hope that helps :)

[carrimclaren]

I think that's the basic idea of what a lot of other people were trying to say in their posts cheeky. ;)

[Leksi]

There are a lot of very good points here! You are sitting up early, to put it simply. Also, you are not giving the horse any release, so when he stretches his neck to land, he is pulling you forward, and since you are leaning back instead of staying in 2 point, you are getting yanked forward. Think of how this feels on his mouth! If it carries on too long, he may not be as honest as he is now, because he will start dreading the landing when he knows he will feel that yank. He will become hollow, and his approaches will not be nearly as nice as they are now. So correcting your release is a good first step, and this will naturally help your 2 point and premature "sitting up".

Let his own natural movement carry you over in 2 point (You're already doing this part, your first picture looks very nice). Try not to think about the landing, but of the "air-time". This is how I teach my beginner students, I ask them to exaggerate it and reach way up their pony's neck to give him plenty of release, this also allows them to stay in the 2 point position without them even realizing it. Upon landing, they naturally will sit up and carry on in their trot or canter. You are very fortunate to have a horse who already has a nice approach and doesn't drop or veer off to one side, so all you have to concentrate on is your own position and not his. He is very honest, indeed!

As you get more experienced, your releases will change, but for now, I would recommend exaggerating them and pretend that you are reaching for his poll. Rest your elbows very lightly along the top of his neck, and you are naturally in 2 point. Use his take-off impulsion to bring you up into that "reach" and you'll be in a nice beginning 2 point.

Your approach does look very good, and your initial takeoff is very nice, except for the release on your horse's mouth, and you should also notice that even though your stirrups are too long, your leg does not move at all, even though you upper body is being pulled quite a bit! Your heel is up a bit, but fix that with some shortened stirrups.

Your leg is already a good foundation, work off of that for support, and you won't feel off balance when you stay up in 2 point. I've tried to simplify this to give you a few minor objectives that will make a big change.

Good luck, and have fun!

[*HoRsEtArD*]

you seem to be coming out of your jumping position before the horse is even over the jump, lol!!!!!

keep your position for longer and dont be in a huge rush to get out of your jumping position either...