handling youngsters

[pippy2005]

hi
i have had a 2yr old dartmoor for a few weeks now he has not been handled much.
he thinks nothing off going up on to two back legs when trying to walk him. :mad:
he does not like being groomed which i am getting over slowly but the worst one is his feet after about 20 mins i can do the front ones but go near the back feet and he stands and shakes :(
any ideas would be welcomed

[Loopslou]

a pocketful of treats or hard feed in your pocket at all times!

I got Amber a 7 1/2 months and she had not been handled more than two men grabbed her and put a headcollar on her.

Slow, steady but firm movements, always let him know where you are around him at all times because young horses can cowkick you (back and out to the side) and it flippin hurts!

Can you have someone hold him while you try his feet, you can't just run your hand down his leg and pick up his feet, every day just run your hands up and down his legs and even gently hose his legs just so he gets used to the sensation. Then starting lifting and setting down and once you can lift and hold them for a few mins at a time you can then start to pick them out. Have your farrier also handle his feet because that will make his life easier when he starts to shoe him in a couple of years.

When you say he thinks nothing of going up on his back feet, is this just as you lead him to and from his stable/field or are you walking him out in hand? You may need to do some basic manners training with him. He needs to respect your personal space and you his, he may feel you are controlling him too much and as you have only had him a few weeks he may not like you coming into his personal space - that trust should build with time but he does need to be reprimanded to stop the rearing - how you choose to reprimand him is up to you, some say raised voice. some say push him about from you, some give a smack but that's a different thread altogether. If he is inclined to rear, make sure you ALWAYS wear your hat when you lead him.

Just take your time, reward, reward, reward and always go back to something you know he's happy with doing if this go pear shaped - its not taking the easy route but it shows your horse that you are listening to him.

Good luck and stick with it, you will get the rewards in the end! ;)

[Hollymead]

Was he wild when you got him? Or did he just not get handled much in his last home?
The main thing, as Loopslou said, is time and rewards. If your pony is quite wild your probably trying to do too much, too soon with him. My pony Holly was wild when I got her, and it took a year of hard work to be able to catch her, lead her at walk and trot, groom her all over, pick her feet up for a period of time and load her into a trailer.
For the moment, forget about picking up feet, leading anywhere except from/to field and just spend time talking to him, standing with him while he eats, putting a headcollar on, grooming areas he is happy with (this may only be, say, his shoulder at first) and give him a treat for any good behaviour. Some people will say don't treat, but I found with Holly that food was the only way to get her round to my way of thinking in those first few tentative months.

[shirley]

Routine helps with youngsters as well. Doing things regularly so as they know what to expect and you get the expected behaviour.
For example our youngster always tried to go for her hay as soon as she came in from the field. But we have had to teach her to stand and have her rugs taken off and head collar and then wait for us to get out of the way. So we started tying her up when we came in, changed rugs, as we were taking off her head collar rubbing her neck and then pushing her back away from our space so as we could walk in front of her. She soon learnt to take several steps back and when out of the way then go to her hay. Now we can bring her in stand her, take of head collar walk in front and then she moves over to her hay. But consistency has been the key - as with other things as well.
Learning to rub your pony all over will be a good bonding thing, not patting them - just as we love type of massage rub - so do ponies and horses. Be gentle, but not ticklish around sensative areas - if he does move retreat back to an area he just stands and enjoys and gradually move hand over then back and then over and back etc.
Training with youngsters is short and simple, take one step at a time and build things up gradually - just like teaching a child really.
But I would wholeheartedly agree with others get your pony to respect your space - push him out of your way if you want to step into his - to show you have dominance over him. Unfortuantely youngsters will "try" this out time and time again as they get older and more confident - just like teenagers!!! But being firm and consistent you will win the day.
Also get someone on your side who can give you advice / lessons with your youngsters training as well. The time and effort you put into getting these ground / basic things right will give you a pony that is really worth its weight in gold in later years. Just like unruly children become unruly adults - so spoilt ponies become bolshy, unpredicable adult ponies / horses - that is pure danger.
Good luck to your

[pippy2005]

thanks for your help.
he has never had treats before so i found out he quiet like the taste of carrots in his dinner.which i now carry with me all the time and use to praise him even if its just for little things.
when he first came he would not allow u near his head let alone clip a lead rope on, over past few weeks i have spent alot of time just working with this as nothing worse than a pony that u cant catch.he even spent nite outside in thunder storm as would not come in.nxt morning he was waiting at gate and came straight away was so proud of him! :)
hes not wild just not been handled its like a child 2yr old toddler!
as for feet front ones not to bad to pick up with a lot of talking and treats when he has done it.tryed to pick back one up yesterday with someone holding him and he sat on the floor. so now going to try and get him to stop shaking when touched on back end.
i know he will come right with alot of love and time

[chev]

One of the easiest, most stress-free ways to work on feet (especially hinds) is to find a nice thick soft rope and use that to pick them up instead of your hands. If the pony kicks, let the rope go with the movement til he stops - then let go and praise him.

Have to go out now but will post more detail for you later, unless someone else does in the meantime!

[Jessey]

One of the easiest, most stress-free ways to work on feet (especially hinds) is to find a nice thick soft rope and use that to pick them up instead of your hands. If the pony kicks, let the rope go with the movement til he stops - then let go and praise him.

I'm not so sure about this, When I brought Qaboos is was in the 'fuel crisis' so after I agreed to buy him I had to wait 3 weeks to get him home, in those 3 weeks the breeder did this to teach him to have his feet held, although she used a length of hosepipe, It took me another 2 years to be able to get him near a hosepipe and still now 5 years on you can't lift his back feet very far from the ground or he panics and kicks out. I can't say it was the hosepipe that made him like that but more likely the way it was done or just thats the way he is but I wouldn't choose to use this method in future.

I think calm and quiet will get you a long way but don't be scared to offer disciplin at the same time.

J x

[Tootsie4U]

I have started a fair share of young horses and this rope method is the only way I train them to pick their feet up for handling. In my book, its the safest way by far.

The thing is, the horse must first be desensitized to the rope on ALL parts of his body. The legs and feet are very sensitive areas and going there right off the bat will evoke a *natural* flight reaction (kicking, bucking, bolting).

I start by rubbing that rope all over the place - over their body, in their mouth, on the face, etc. Once the horse doesn't even bat an eyelid, I then progress to tossing it in the air beside the horse. Once that gets no reaction, I then toss it onto the horse. The next step is to start tossing it around the legs, so it wraps around one leg and then comes undone by gravity. When this doesn't phase the horse anymore, then its time to try lifting the legs.

Take the rope and wrap it around one front leg and let it fall to the point of the fetlock. Wiggle the rope around and if there's no reaction, apply slight pressure (pull the rope towards you). The horse will most likely stand there doing nothing, since you've already desenstized him. Doesnt matter - keep the pressure even and consistent. In a few moments, the horse will wonder whats going on and will do something with that foot. He may drag it back, he may lift it up, he may just move it. I reward ANY of that. He's responding to my request to move that leg. You can fine tune it later to the point where he just lifts it up. The important thing is - you make the right response very clear to them. As soon as that leg moves, drop all contact on the rope and praise your horse. Repeat until he lifts his leg with just a slight pull on the rope. Once that is consistent, you can trust he's good for lifting his feet and try it by hand.

Jessey, I really bet your horse had a bad experience with his learning. Either the process wasn't done correctly or hurried or somewhere along the way, something happened to set him back and no one bothered to re-desensitize him. :confused:

[chev]

Tootsie has described it just as well as I could so I won't repeat it.

Sounds like Qaboos had a horrible experience. From his reaction it sounds like they jkust fought to keep his foot off the floor - that's not the way to do it at all. I would never use hosepipe either - it's hard and inflexible for this sort of thing.

It's very important to realise that this isn't a quick and easy option - it still takes time and patience. You should never use the rope to keep the horse's foot off the ground - it's there to encourage the lift in the first place. As with any sensitive training, you need to reward the slightest give.

The advantages are that first off, if you have a horse that's going to kick, your head is nowhere near his feet. You can give as much as you need to with the rope, without actually having to let go completely to save your skull.

Secondly, and more importantly, it means that you can still be at your horse's head to reward and reassure him - just that one fact can make all the difference.

This is not about tying a horse's foot off the ground at all - it's about gently encouraging the reaction you want and rewarding it when you get it.

I've used it a few times recently - I think it was either Kate Farmer or Harry Hobbes that advised it - first off with a cob colt who reared as soon as he wanted his foot back. It's worked a treat - with no stress, or fights, he'll now pick every foot up quietly.

[pippy2005]

thanks for that.
will start to take some rope in the stable with me.he is very nervous about new things so will just carry it for a start.he was really good today and managed to take my brush box in the stable without him havin a fit.
i have also been told to make an arm with a glove on the end to rub down his legs to get him used to it has anyone else used this before?

[Loopslou]

letting him experience new things little and often will help and don't worry if it takes you another 6 months to have him picking his feet up properly for you, if that's how long its gonna take then that's how long it will be. It takes nothing away from your skills, in fact you are doing the right thing by getting advice.

Rewards and time and patience and always ending on a high note are the way to go. Remember as well, young horses have the attention span of a newt as well so keep your handling sessions to around 10 minutes.

[pippy2005]

the only thing that really bothers me at the min is he needs his feet trimmin if i cant pick them up the farrier is going to have a right job and i dont want the hard work i am putting in going to waste.

[Loopslou]

talk to your farrier when you book him to come out and explain the situation. Any farrier worth his salt will allocate you some extra time to show you how to handle the feet properly and give you some tips and advice. Mine did and he was bloomin brilliant. If this is the farrier who is going to eventually shoe your horse then he's doing himself favours by putting in some groundwork with you and the horse now. Even if the pony doesn't need his feet trimmed, if the farrier is out, get him to handle his feet each time.

Amber hated getting her feet lifted but lifted them perfectly for my farrier so there was a case of her "trying it on" with me plus I'm sure she sensed I as nervous. He might surprise you with the farrier but the main thing is to let the farrier know and see what he suggests. He will also show you the best ways to lift the feet etc.

[Mehitabel]

with the glove on stick, it's also vitally important the horse is desensitised and not scared of it first. if he already has doubts about having his legs touched (perfectly natural - they need their legs to run from predators, and they are severely compromising their safety letting you handle and pick up their feet) then the last thign you want to do it try to touch them with something he is scared of. so just like the rope, he must be 110% happy with the stick and glove (we have used a walking stick with the hook end padded and filled in with cloth) before you try the legs with it.

how urgent are his feet? if they are not really horrendous and making him lame, i'd be inclined to work on the feet first - set it up to be a good experience rather than hurrying to get them done and making him scared of farriers. echo loopslou - talk to your farrier, ours is more than happy to drop in when he is in the area and do some preparatory work with babies or unhandled ones.

[Loopslou]

as Mehtibal says, if it isn't urgent that he gets his feet trimmed then start handling him and getting him comfortable and then get the farrier out. If you are leading him in hand along quiet roads, that will soon trim down a little overgrowth. I think my farrier actually trimmed Amber's at around 9 months and that did her for trimmig for about 1 1/2 because she was in the field 24/7 and walked out in hand. Please do speak to your farrier and explain you situation though because he can probably pass you on some invaluable information and also help you work through this problem calmly with you and your pony.