positioning help (with pics)

[Mochelle]

Hi all,
Well, on Saturday my friend decided to take some pics as I wanted to see where I was going wrong as my instructor never seems to comment or bother about our positioning (I know, it’s really bad - I’m looking for a new instructor, she’s good but doesn‘t push you) .

But it’s so much worse than I thought!!! I got the worse chair positioning ever! I’m so depressed about it, no wonder the horse gets confused! I’ve only started up riding again for a couple of months after a 10 year break, but I want to catch this terrible habit before it’s too hard to break!

Is there any tips, exercises or suggestions you can give me? I knew my feet were a big problem - heels down and stirrups on the ball of the foot, and I’ve been having such problems correcting them (I posted before on here about it and I’ve been trying the exercises you gave me but to no success) but no wonder I can’t do it since my legs need to be sorted out before I can have any success with my feet!

Is there anything else I’m missing apart from the glaringly obvious chair position? Is the rein contact correct? Are my hands in the correct poiston? Please be brutally honest as that’s what I need

I’ve read a lot about the correct position but can’t really find any tips or exercises to improve it! When I try to put my legs back it feels like I’m tipping forwards and feels just so odd, and so off balance.

Any help/criticism would be appreciated I’ve posted a walk, trot and canter (sorry about the fence btw LOL)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/michellemurphy/1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/michellemurphy/2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/michellemurphy/34.jpg

[danielle:>]

Hiya ,
your position isn't , honestley , that bad . The rein contact looks good in the last pic , 2nd one isn't really loading for me , just the top halfs coming up (just my stupid computer ) , so can't tell in that one , and the third one has the fence in the way . I can't really tell , but in the last pic it looks like your hand might , and I empasise (sp?) might , cause it isn't that clear , be turned in towards you .
To help your leg I'd do lots and lots and lots of no stirrup work . Its amazing for your leg position . Hope this has helped . :)

Danielle
xxx

P.S O/T , but that horse is lovely :D

[Pickles]

I think you're being hard on yourself considering how long you've been back riding.

Group lessons are never great for getting one to one advice on your position. Maybe you could fit in some privates or even lunge lessons.

It looks like you have your leg in a better position in the canter picture, perhaps because you are using it to keep him going?

Try to think about keeping your leg 'on' all the time so you can use it without needing to move it back and on.

Other than that I would just keep up the regular lessons and I'm sure you'll see an improvement. I used to keep a lesson diary with how I was getting on, it's easy to forget how much you are improving and focus on your current weak points.

[Bay Mare]

It's really not as bad as you think to say that you've only recently come back to riding.

How do your stirrups feel? I get the 'feeling' in the first two pictures that you're reaching for the stirrups a bit. It may be worth putting your stirrups up a hole for a short while until you're back into it all again :) We're always encouraged to 'ride long' for flatwork/dressage but it shouldn't be so long that you're having to reach for the stirrup.

I also get the feeling that you're a bit tense, not dreadfully so and quite understandable at the moment.

With regards to the stirrups, firstly you're hindered by the saddle design. If you look in the third pic where you have a slightly better hip/ankle alignment you are actually having to pull the stirrup leather back which will make the 'tipping forwards' feeling worse (though you are tipping forwards so don't have the correct shoulder/hip/heel line). Try not to jam your feet into the stirrups as that automatically brings your foot forwards and puts you into the chair position.

To be honest I think that your best bet would be to do some work without stirrups and some lunge lessons. There's nothing overly dreadful about your position and with time and lessons you'll be fine :D

[PromiseMe]

I agree with the others - your doing fine after that LONG break! :)

You know whats going on and thats the first step ;) Yes you do have a chair seat in the first two pics - just focus on it next time you ride! In the third pic, you don't have your chair seat anymore, which is good, but gotta keep those heels down huh. I know its HARD to keep the stirrup at the ball of your foot at canter - I use to have that problem too, but I Promise that it comes with time. Keep practicing and one day you'll discover that that stirrup just stays there :) For now, just try and keep that heel down, will prevent that stirrup from moving as much.
For canter also sit up straight and stop leaning forward! Sit on your bum - you'll find the canter much more comfortable and you'll also feel more balanced ;)

Cute horse by the way ;) Nice! Keep up the riding! :) have fun

[galadriel]

Ah...in the third pic, you're leaning forward. Your foot is still forward (a little further back than the other pics), you've just moved your upper body over it. The hip is not in line with head and heel. Moving the body forward puts you in just as much of an insecure position as the chair seat (and makes you likely to grip with knees or calves--and brings up your heel).

You're fighting with your saddle design, as Bay Mare said. It's a pretty forward flap saddle. It's designed for going over jumps, where you're supposed to put your body and feet forward--but also lift the back end, and move it *backward*, to compensate--can't do that while your seat's in the saddle. As a result, it draws your leg forward and places it in the wrong position.

There is some you can do to counteract the saddle's influence. Stirrupless work can help, as already suggested. While you're stirrupless, try to get an idea of where your legs ought to be; it may help to adjust the length of your stirrups to match. If they're too long OR too short, they can add to the chair seat effect.

Possibly one of the most effective things that you could do would be to take dressage lessos, or ask for lessons in a saddle which is not so forward. Even most all-purpose saddles will have the stirrup bar just a bit further back, closer to where it ought to be.

[Shiny McShine]

Have to agree, you are doing really well considering you've been out of practice for a while, and you're position doesn't look too bad. Also agree that working stirrupless would be a big help to your position, however the saddle is working against you and I would even suggest that the type of horse you are riding (is this your regular ride?) is contributing to the chair type seat. Horses that have a big barrel tend to force your leg forward because they are narrower at the girth, so your leg automatically gravitates to that position. Also wide horses make it difficult to open your hips and allow your legs to hang down below you.

Just a note: If I were your instructor I would prefer to see you riding in the position you are in in the first two pictures than in the third. While the chair seat isn't ideal it is alot more safe and secure than your position in the third. If the horse stopped or changed course suddenly while you were in that position you would be more easily unseated.

[Mochelle]

Thank you everyone for saying my position wasn't as bad as I thought, I was really beating myself up about it.

I thought you guys might say work without stirrups, I’m terrible at that lol. I remember as a kid I dreaded those words ‘fold over your stirrups!’. I will try to ask my instructor if I can go without stirrups for the first 10 minutes or so, just so I know and feel where my legs are supposed to be. It’s hard in a group lesson though but I’ll try. I can’t really afford a private lesson as there £50! I would love a lunge lesson as I think it would sort me out a hell of a lot, although I’d be terrified… as you may be able to tell I rely way to much on the stirrups and reins! As I remember when I’m stirrupless I can walk fine… trot is awful and the thought of cantering is terrifying! Hopefully this will change after lots and lots of work!

Danielle - yes, your right about my hands, thanks - I didn’t notice that. I think it might have been because at the time we were cantering in and out of cones and I was concentrating on that rather than anything else, I’ll have to look and see if that’s a problem

Pickles - that’s a good idea about the riding diary, I think I’ll give that one a go, cheers

Bay mare - that really surprised me you saying you thought the stirrups were too long, I always thought I rode really short and thought this might be causing a bit of the chair seat, I’ll give shorted stirrups a go to see how they feel on Saturday.

Promise me - Yeah, I find it so hard not to wedge my feet in the stirrups, it’s so hard to keep them on the ball of the foot even in trot let alone canter, it’s a little dishearting when everyone else in the lesson seems to do this without even thinking about it. I’m always thinking about it and trying to correct it but my foot always keeps going back

About the saddle, I didn’t know that was a jumping saddle (really rusty with my horse management etc) I don’t think that’ll be too much of a problem as I don’t ride Chloe much, I’ve only ridden her twice which is a shame as she’s such a beautiful horse to ride. I normally ride 'chance' who is much bigger but a lot skinner, so that ‘big barrel’ Shiney McShine is talking about shouldn’t be a problem next time (hopefully)

About the leaning forwards part, I think this a major problem of mine, see I didn’t realise I did it in canter but I’m really aware than every transition I make I lean forwards big time, maybe that’s something to do with having to reach my legs back? I think I lean forwards when I rise to the trot as well. Have you got any tips to stop that or is it just a case of lean back? I know what you mean about totally insecure in the canter and if she stopped I’d be off, I’m lucky with Chloe that she is so good she’d wouldn’t do that, but my regular ride would do that - so I will get to correcting that one very fast

Sorry for the long post - I get carried away! LOL. I will try going without stirrups and take on board what everyone’s said for Saturdays lesson… I’ll keep you posted!

Thank you all!

[Mochelle]

Hey,
Just came back for my lesson and thought i'd give you a little update.

Unfortunatly I didn't have a chance to work without sturrips as we were in a jumping field... and it's quite litterally a field (not arena) so it wasn't best place to try it out, plus the horses were all excited as it wasn't in the school, i didn't want her to go off into canter without sturrips!. Next week I'll give it a go.

On the big plus side I managed to sort out my leaning forward in canter :) Yay! I asked my intructer to work with me at it (when shiney mcshine said how dangerous it was I thought i'd work on that straight away!) It's so much easier than I thought to correct it! So i'm all happy now :) and i'm getting the hang of not leaning forwards to do transitions too... dontcha just love lessons when you actually feel somethings clicked :)

[Shiny McShine]

Great to hear you had such a good lesson!

In regard to the dangers of leaning forward, the more forward you are the less secure you are (in general) but remember, it is the combination of leaning forward and legs back/heels up that really jeopordises your safety. Cross-country riders can have quite a forward body position and still be secure, but you will find that they have their leg out in front of them to some extent with their heel practically wedged down.

Most riders tend to lean forward in order to balance themselves at first. As they develop a better feel for the centre of balance within their own body they are able to balance by adjusting the position of their core (hips, lower back and belly), using the stomach and lower back muscles. It sometimes helps to focus on this group of muscles when trying to develop your balance. Once you feel how this area of your body influences your balance you will be more able to maintain a balanced position without needing to move your leg or upper body position a great deal.

Good luck with your future lessons, hope to hear some more good feedback :).

Regards,
Shiny.