BHS/NVQ? which do you prefer?

[shoniedaspony]

difference between NVQ stages and BHS stages (in horse care)?

i am thinking of spending some of my summer being prepared for my BHS stage 1 by the riding school i work at so was wondering what its all about, what kind of things both types of course cover?

thanks

[Mehitabel]

i prefer nvqs to stages. i prefer the exam structuire, that you have to have actually physically done everything on the syllabus and been signed off as having done it to standard - it's not just how well you can cram for a written exam. i like the questions and projects, you need in depth and broad knowledge around the subject.

when i did mine, the standard of work and riding was the same as the stages - but i was in the first wave of nvqs in 1995, and i believe they have been dumbed down a bit now.

syllabus-wise, nvqs are a bit broader than stages, but not much different.

[shoniedaspony]

having seen some people being assessed on the job as such for their stages i thought they were pretty good too, until i met the new girl at our yard, NVQ stage 3, cant muck out a shavings bed properly and thinks a night bed = 2ft high and wide banks, with a sprinkling of shavings over the floor.

was just wondering if it will be more a qualification to say i have than a learning experience because i work at a riding school, do RDA and share a pony....not that i know a lot but i do have the basics. Is NVQ more coursework based?

[Mehitabel]

well, obviously the qualification is as good as the examiner who ticks you off as being up to standard! but you also have to do stuff in your external exam, as well as riding - i had to lunge in my 2 and tack up for xc in my 3, and explain to the examiner why i had done what i had done - so explain taping the reins, why i had chosen what boots/bandages i had used, talk about pros and cons of others, discuss saddle fit on the horse and so on.

with nvqs you have a folder of assessment sheets - one per unit. so for instance you have a sheet about taking a rug off, and another one for putting it on. on the sheet your assessor has to tick a bunch of boxes and make comments about how you did the rugging, whether you were safe and efficient, etc. you also have a background knowledge bit - i had guidelines for a project on rugs - i had to know bout all the different types, when you rug, why you rug, when each type is appropriate. they later changed this to written questions, so mroe directed, and i think they ar now changing it back to projects.

so it is mostly coursework based. when you have done all the assessments and all the projects you go for the exam - the external examiner sees you ride, asks you questions on the riding, and reads your folder. you also have to do a random task from the folder and answer questions on it - like my tacking up for xc.

[SJstar]

yeh but you cant fail NVQs so everyone will pass.

[Mehitabel]

eventually, yes, but not necessarily first time or in the same timescale, you keep doing assessments until you are to standard - so if the first four times you are watched putting a ug on, you get it backwards, you don;t get signed off. you shouldn't be out forward for the externam exam until you have done all the syllabus up to standard and consistently so. you can be 'referred' which is the same as a fail. when i did my level 3, the other girl who took it was referred and retook it the following year.

[shoniedaspony]

well i suppose thats good in a lot of ways because it encourages you to keep trying and not to give up, like it would if you just failed and that was it.

are they both practical and riding?

[cvb]

simplistically speaking you could say one tests a selection of skills on an assessment/exam day, where the other requires postive confirmation that you have ALL the skills.

There must be an "equivalency" diagram somewhere that would show how NVQ levels relate to BHS stages.

Oh - and NVQs are a national award regulated by... I would expect... QCA. BHS Stages are professional exams regulated by BHS (which is a national body).

I guess one of the key questions would be which is preferred by employers ?

[Mehitabel]

nope, nvqs are awarded by the bhs too.

when i did mine, the standard was the same as the stages - but i think they have made the nvqs less demanding now.

i don't *think* (altohugh don't take this as gospel) you do a practical bit on the stages exam - i think it's just riding and written. with nvqs you ride and are watched doing stable management.

[shoniedaspony]

so if someone came to you and you handt seen them ride/ do anything around horses, which would you put more weight on as an indicator of their standard?

actually i suppose thats a very difficult question,as the majority of horse owners have neither!

[cvb]

nope, nvqs are awarded by the bhs too.

yes - but NVQs are regulated by QCA. Thats the only way that NVQs can be comparative across industries !

City & Guilds award NVQs - but they are still overseen by QCA

Edit: and yes there is a practical element to BHS Stages. You can just go up the Stable Management route, without doing the riding part.

[Mehitabel]

our yard prefers nvqs. assuming the examiner was going by the book, you know the person is capable of actually doing the work in an efficient and workmanlike manner - one of the checkboxes on the assessment sheets is for efficiency and not taking an age to do things.

i have seen people who have their stages who had all the theoretical knowledge but no experience of working in a yard and actually getting things done at a reasonable speed and thoroughness.

[shoniedaspony]

so seeing as i have worked at this riding school for 4 months and done RDA for 1.5 years (so far), if i just did my stages and had that or more experience, i might do ok in terms of basic job prospects? (im thinking part time at a riding school/ livery yard when im at uni)

[hApPiNeSs]

but if you look at the adverts for ridng instructers/grooms, many require you to be a BHSAI - im not sure why, but they do.

[shirley]

Yes to be an instructor you will need the basic teaching / instructor qualifications run by BHS. But for a groom, you do not have to be able to teach - would need more stable management qualifications.
NVQ's are work based qualifications. That is you should be working ie. livery yard and then take NVQ qualifications. BHS stages are for professionals, but can be taken by non-professionals as well.
Each level / stage will have a predetermined set of standard or competencies you have to acheive. NVQ is done over a set period of time and as said no failure. It is down to your assessor to assist in extra training if this is required to assist you to meet standard etc. BHS done on one day exam basis.
We have two young people doing their NVQ route on our livery yard and they are great girls. They work long and hard and their work is to a very good standard. They attend college one day a week to do key skills as well, but also expected and encouraged to keep up with building up their portfolios to evidence that they can meet the standards / competencies needed to be obtained for certain level / unit they are working towards. But they are also being encouraged to work towards BHS exams as well, as they both want to be instructors eventually.
The one thing I heard from people in equine industry several years ago is that all the equine qualifications were ok, but the practical element of everyday handling and dealing with horses was lacking. NVQ's really do bridge that gap. Working in and alongside horses day in and out, whilst getting a recognised qualification as well must fit the bill for someone who has experience and knowledge of horses within the equine industry.
But also being a person who hates exams I would vote for NVQ's any day. But also being someone who does not work in equine industry, if I wanted to I would have to do my BHS stages!!!

[Mehitabel]

you can go into your ptt or stage 4 (nvqs only go up to level 3) straight from nvqs - and you only need stage or nvq 3 to do ptt and then AI. so even for working in the industry, nvqs are fine.

i'm debating doing my stage 4 this year - there isn't an equivalent nvq for that level, but up to then i still say nvq every time.

[intouch]

NVQ3 is much more detailed than Stage 3, we have 1 on our yard doing each. NVQ is SLOW going - having to wait for assessors to get on the ball - but BHS is chancey, it could depend on which examiner you get and what mood they're in! I know someone who passed stage 3, but had 2 Xs on their sheet - they were never asked anything about those 2 subjects, so cant figure how they got Xs.
One girl failed her 3 riding, then a few days later was told by the same examiner that her riding was 3 standard. Maybe they just need the money.
Sorry, a bit disillusioned with BHS exams at the mo. :rolleyes:

[Bay Mare]

I've done an NVQ and think that it very much depends on how it is run. I wasn't overly impressed to be honest, I did Level 1 (stupidly, I was later told that I should have done 2 ... too late!) and found it to be very simplistic. I also wasn't that impressed by the assessments and would have failed (sorry, I know that's not the correct terminology but I never have been that politically correct) some of the ones that passed.

I think that it is a useful tool for someone who is already working in a riding school environment as you will be doing the practical work anyway. The questions, though tedious to plough through sometimes, are all easy enough. I like the continuous assessment aspect of it but am not impressed with NVQ's in general (in my own sphere too).

My preference would be to do the NVQ and the BHS Stages. There is also the ABRS exams though I'm not a fan of these as my experience of purely ABRS qualified instructors hasn't been good. I know that others have had different experiences but I've been very lucky in having some really good BHS qualified people teach me. I'm not saying, though, that the BHS don't have to smarten up their act!