Cruelty?

[judyl]

I have recently been told, by a very good friend of mine, about someone riding at the Wellington music festival. Apparently this rider had spurs on (as we all know, when you get to Advanced level you have to wear spurs). She is a very experienced rider and I have seen her name on this horse win loads of times at top affiliated competitions. Anyway, when she was riding in the competition and working in beforehand, the horse had blood on his sides from her spurs. My friends reported this to a Steward who didn't seem to know what to do and said he would see about it.

I haven't read anything in Horse & Hound about it. You remember all the fuss last year when the show jumper was reported because his spurs had bloodied his horse? This is happening with our top riders - it just sickens us lower level grass roots riders. This rider went on to win her next competition and I think I'm correct in saying she is one of our National champions.

What do you think?

Judy

[Yann]

How can anyone who loves their horse spur it so hard it bleeds?
I thought the better the rider the subtler the aids were supposed to be....This sort of thing disgusts me:mad:

Yann

[KarlR]

The use of spurs is always controversial. My opinion is that they are a useful aid to back up a leg aid that is going unheeded, but should never be needed repeatedly and never with the sort of force that would pierce a horses side - this is simply cruelty.

I have met riders who use spurs in this gentle fashion, but many do not - even some riders at a high level seem not to understand that a nice responsive horse doesn't come from using ever stronger aids and sharper spurs, but from training it to respond to increasingly light aids. This example shows nothing about the rider involved except to highlight their inability to communicate properly with their horse.

I would urge anyone who witnesses such a thing at a show to report it immediately and request that the person involved is disqualified. In the event that this falls on deaf ears then be prepared to make a fuss about it. If the person involved is a well known figure then take a photo and post it to the equestrian press - abuse of the horse is unacceptable in all circumstances and the sooner we get people like this out of the system the better.

[KarinUS]

I think that is very good advice Karl gave.
It is very sad to hear about such a hard working horse being abused. :(
That's just the scary thing about horses. They are almost like dogs. We humans can hurt them and they still go on and do their job. Very sad.
I am a beginner and always worried that I unintentionally cause some harm or discomfort to my school horse and these "professionals" hurt their partner without any consideration!
I know a girl that competes in Western events and when she talks about herself training her horses she always "complains" how she <b>has</b> to spank and spur them to get them to behave.
It just makes me sick. That girl grew up on a horse farm. You'd think she'd have more love for her charges.
:(

[Sarah]

Judy,

I think i may know which rider you mean, if it is who i think it was, I reported her to BD last year after watching her 'ride' at the Catherston Grand Prix Kur. I got an email back from Dane Rawlins saying that the judges decision was right, the rider had done nothing wrong, despite having blood coming out the horse and riding worse than a sack of spuds. Eamil me privately if you want me to name the rider I reported, i won't do it here.

Sorry to say it, but British Dressage really don't seem to care about the horse.

Sarah

[Wally]

I cannot understand why someone pays top money for a horse, money for trainers, feeds, shoes and saddlery to become top of their sport then damage the very expensive "equipment" (for want of a better analogy) that they use to get them there! It doesn't take much for the best horse to suddely turn and say "B***er it, I've had enough of this" and stop co-operating! They then are labelled difficult or problem and the investment in time and money is wasted!

Isn't it supposed to be a partnership? Torvil and Dean were never seen beating the living daylights out of each other on the ice in a bid to be top!

[floppy]

absolute disgrace.

i personally think every system of competition is corrupt! if you got a name the judges wont do anything to stop you scoring high even if you rode terribly etc!! Dont get me started on judges!
international events arent too bad because you got a mixed board.
but i definately think something should be done!

[hilite]

I'm a little late, but I just wanted to write about this one.

I think that spurs can be really good tools for experienced riders who will use them carefully, but they should never make your horse bleed! I can't believe that this rider is doing so well in shows when she isn't responsible or caring enough to use her spurs correctly and without hurting her horse. :(

I hope that one day someone manages to do something about this so she can't hurt her horse anymore. :mad:

[SILENT-ONE200]

Good Evening,

I grew up on a ranch in Texas and my folks taught me that to truly "connect" with your horse was through light hands, and without "trappings" i.e. spurs and whips. I train Western horses and compete in Barrel Racing (went professional at 15) when time allows. I do not use whips or spurs, and my horse(s) respond very well to leg pressure. I've seen some awful wrecks with girls using "tie-downs". Those who use those sort of "aids" are not communicating with their horses and are therefore hurting them. When you compete you should be a "team", not a "me" player. Believe me, I've tried to get these people to change their ways, but it's hard to undo old habits. Horses are so forgiving of our foibles. We can learn so much from them if only we take the time to truly listen.

SILENT-ONE200

[Hevz2001]

This make me so angry:mad: :mad: :mad: People who can't use spurs properly shouldn't be allowed to use them at all. It sounds like this rider should not be allowed to ride until she learns to respect the horse first!

[snuggly_elf]

why use spurs at all? I think that some riders have a very bad habit of useing as many gadgets as possible. I have often been at shows and seen poor horses with martigales, cruppers, boots galore. If the horse needs it then thats diffrent, but how many really do need martingales? Usually careful schooling can rectify the problem to a satisfactory finish. I have only met one horse in my 12 years of riding that actully needed a martingale. And she didn't wear one!
But when it comes to spurs I think they are as unnecassary as fox hunting and a very old fashioned gadget. We don't force horses to carry there heads uncomfortably high any more so why are riders still using false aids from the dark ages?:mad:

[Bebe]

The value of spurs is debateable imo. Dressage purists will argue that they are necessary in order to give the refined aids that high level dressage calls for, they ask for more engagement from the hind legs and allow the leg to be quiet (takes a lot less to engage the spur than to give a hefty squeeze or kick).

That said, others will argue that a high level dressage horse should respond to the lightest aid and should understand at this point that the use of the legs means engage not go faster.

I've never ridden a horse that well trained so couldn't tell you which is true. Either way though , they should be used with timing, precision and delicacy. Under no circumstances should they draw blood! And has already been said, a well trained horse should go from the lightest possible aid so using spurs to make a horse go forwards kind of defeats the object.

[Angela Doyle]

I have always found it unbelievable that spurs are compulsory at Advanced level. They are the sort of artificial aid that CAN be useful, but can also be detrimental. Surely it should be better that a horse can reach that level without needing to use spurs to get them there. If they are being used so that the horse ends up with blood on their sides then they are most definitely not being used with enough care! I am amazed the steward did not take this further!

I have a young 5 year old hanoverian, and sometimes he can be a little lazy, whilst other times he has bundles of energy! I would not use spurs with him at this young age as I want him to learn to go well on his own, without the use of various artificial aids, and remain responsive to the leg!! One girl I know uses spurs on a regular basis on her young horse, and he doesnt even need them! When (if) she stops using them I am sure he wont be as responsive to the leg!

A.

[floppy]

My cousins daughter rides my cousin horse with spurs but the truth of the matter is no matter how hard she tries she cant get him going so she has to ride him with spurs. My cousin and i can get him going but not her daughter

[Bebe]

I watched a couple of prelim tests at the dressage competition that was held at my yard last weekend. A lot of the riders were wearing spurs, which at this level I think is ridiculous. Also, most of these riders had unsteady legs with toes pointing downwards, not the ideal when using spurs!! I think that at this level it boils down to one of 3 things - either the rider doesn't have the knowledge of how to train a horse to respond properly to the leg (which is difficult, I spent over a month re-teaching my horse to do it), they have an instructor who is lazy and hasn't taught them to use their legs properly or a stable, independent position or, they're plain lazy!

And I too think it's daft that spurs are compulsory at advanced levels. Optional yes, but not compulsory.

[intouch]

I watched a riding club dressage evening last night and the standard of riding of the majority of the horses amounted to abuse! not to mention ill fitting saddles, bits cranked up to the ears, and one rider who deliberately yanked her poor horse in the mouth after she had failed twice to get it to strike off on the correct leg. You don't need spurs to see cruelty.

[Moonlightrider]

Sometimes a tap with spurs is better then nagging a horse on and on with kicks. Spurs used properly can be better then legs used improperly.

But if you have any trouble with your legs, don't use them! I won't wear spurs... I'm afraid I won't use my legs properly. My legs are reasonably good, but I've only been riding 2 years. There's lots of room for problems.

It sickens me at shows to see horses being spurred and beaten in the warm-up ring until the poor animal is so wound up that a tap with the crop (for trot) or an outside kick will get them moving out... and half the time, the trainers are screaming, good job.

Martengales don't bother me, although I do agree that with a lot of schooling 75% of horses who wear them wouldn't.

[Kathrin]

If the point is to provide a finer, more exact touch to a certain area a spur should do very well.

However I don't see that it has to be metal - why not rubber spurs which beyond a certain pressure level yield thereby minimising any hurt caused by an obsessively competitive passenger.

I think technology has advanced to a degree whereby tack and aids that can potentially injure the horse can be "made safe".


Riders, though is another thing....

[floppy]

i have pair of rubber round headed dressage spurs that i gave to the owner of my lease horse to try riding with because she has only be riding for 2 yrs and she is a good rider but can't get her head around metal ones. I let her try all my 3 pairs of spurs out and the rubber ones suited her best and she doesnt feel she is hurting her tubby horse using them.

[HunterGirl]

I hardly ever wear spurs and when I do I've never come close to leaving a mark never mind making the horse bleed. It's a shame that the top lever riders are getting away with it, it just shows how corrupt this sport can be.

All the horses at my barn wear martingales. They are all fitted properly and do not force the horses head down. Its not because of lack of proper schooling either. Of the 4 girls that show Trillium(hunters) at my barn 3 of them placed in the top 10 for the season and the other one placed 11th.

Before anyone askes, if you took off their martingales they would still win. Its just part of the uniform around here.
And the horses that need one( head in the air ect.) dont have one.
Im not saying that its an excuse for proper training but you cant school your horse in the middle of your course. Plus they have to take them off for the flat classes.

[Bebe]

But you can school the horse in the middle of the course, test or whatever. It's just that many people choose not to as to do so will usually mean a lower place, score or elimination.

I personally see no reason for using tack that the horse does not need. If nothing else it makes for more cleaning and something else to remember to put on. And if it has to be taken off for flat classes then why bother at all?

Huntergirl, out of curiosity, just why is a martingale part of the uniform? What purpose does it serve if the horse goes equally well without it?

[larri]

I have used these before - they look very different to english in that the spur sits around the heel of the boot and just slips on - there is no strap and the spur end points upwards and in towards the horses side.

You cannot use them harshly as they would simply fall off your boot if you push too hard. Due to the positioning and the design you actually touch the horse very lightly almost under the horse. ( difficult to explain)!

Larri

[larri]

This business of unnecessary tack - - a lot of people are very sheep like in their habit to follow what seems to be the current horsey fashion!
Take flash nosebands - you can't buy a bridle without one! all they do is clamp a horses mouth shut and if your horse doesn't cross his jaw to evade a contact why put one on?

It's just putting the horse under extra pressure for no reason.

I don't use a nose band at all if hacking or schooling - and have a martingale only if I'm doing cross country as Christa gets very excited and has a tendancy to go round - up periscope fashion!

When you use a gadget all the time without needing to it totally loses its effectiveness - so then to deal with a problem you need to use something harsher and harsher. (as so often happens with bits)

Sorry - rant over!!
Larri

[HunterGirl]

Bebe

I wish I could give you a complete answer.

But I dont know, part I guess is the "fashion" part and the other is they do help slightly.

When a horse goes in a martingale they know when its on and when its off.....

Therefore, they dont make any attempt to raise their head. When its off durring a course they know its not there so they do raise there head and thats one other thing the rider has to work on durring their round.

Now, please everyone dont condem me for using one piece of equipment. I dont use nasty bit or spurs, I dont use a flash a figure 8 or a drop noseband( not that there is anything wrong with them when used properly).
Our horses always go in brush boots when schooling and 1 goes in bell boots.
Remember tht there are more then 1 way to skin a cat.

[larri]

Brushing & bell boots are fine - they are protecting the horse - not forcing it to do something!

I use boots without fail when lunging and jumping, it's too easy for a horse - especially a gangly youngster, to knock itself.

Larri

[Bebe]

Huntergirl, I'm not going to condemn you for using a martingale. It's your horse and you can put whatever tack on that you like. I can think of worse pieces of tack to use whether you need them or not.

I don't ride with a noseband at all, although for my dressage test I'm going to have to put it back on but it's only a cavesson so won't make much difference.

And Bebe is wearing 1 bell boot at the moment (to protect an almost healed injury, I got fedup of cleaning two when she only needs it on the one foot) and if she's been out of work for a while I'll put brushing boots on too.

Amanda

[snuggly_elf]

I have to say that although a lot of diferent bits of tack that people use are unnessasary for their horse sometimes a little thing can make a big difference.
I ride a 23 year old 15hh cob called Hamish. He can be strong and likes to avaid the bit. To do this he openes his mouth wide, puts his tounge over the bit and then makes noices like a hot water bottle! Because he is a riding for the disabled horse at the stables that I help at he doesn't have a nose band as he has to wear his head collar under his bridle so he can be lead.
I did a dressage comp on him and found it really dificult when practicing as he would go where I wanted him to go he just wasn't really concentrating. The day before the comp I decided to practice in the tack I'd be riding him in. So I added a drop nose band to his bridle. What a diffrence! He was so calm and obedient and he got that white foam from thwe mouth that they get when they are accepting the bit. It was wonderful. His paces were much lighter and more controlable, our canter circles were spot on, transitions more flowing. He really started to pay attention to what was going on. On the day of the comp he was just as good erning us a 5th place in our first ever dressage comp!:D