Alfalfa pellets, Hi-fi lite or fibremix?

[alwaysfallingof]

Ok...next feeding problem we're having is that although he's not losing any condition, Max now doesn't seem to have enough energy stores for the work that he's doing. He's gone into 'plod' mode, which is very out of character, and gets tired very quickly.
So...I want to give him more energy without putting any weight on. I've had a look on here, and there seems to have been 3 things that were suggested.
Number 1 was Alfalfa pellets - these seem very good from the laminitis-prevention point of view, but I'm not sure how much extra energy they'll actually give him.
2 - Hi-fi lite, this also seems like a good idea, but I had a look on the Dengie website and wasn't sure whether it seemed like it could be fed by itself, or whether I'm meant to feed mix on top of it.
3 - someone mentioned Dengie fibremix, this seems as though it'll certainly give him more energy, but I'm not sure whether it's got too high a proportion of starch.

So...any advice appreciated, or does it really not matter which I choose?!
By the way, I had a look at some balancers, like the Lammy one, and Dengie Lo-Cal but they are a bit out of my price range!

[eventerbabe]

Both mine are on hi-fi lite. even when toby was i hard work i kept him on it. i'd be in 2 minds about feeding a lamanitic alfalfa as its the Hi-Fi which is classed as hoof kind. you could try calm and condition by allan and page, its £10 a bag BUT it really does put a lot of condition on them and i wouldn't give it to a lammy. i know the likes of blue chip and top spec are expensive, but they are a heck of a lot cheaper than the vet bills for treating laminitis.

[alwaysfallingof]

Do you feed only Hi-fi lite, or do you add other things to it?
I think I'll stay clear of 'Calm and condition' what I really want is "wake-up and lose some condition"! :D
Hmmm, I thought that alfalfa was meant to be good, because it's so high in fibre, never mind. Back to the drawing board again!

[Bebe]

Alfalfa is a feed recommended by the laminitis trust. It can be high in sugar if grown in very sunny climates but any grown here tends to be pretty low. If you're worried ring the lammy trust, or check out their recommended feeding methods on the back of a bag of speedibeet, alfalfa features quite highly in their diet. If you look at Hi-Fi lite which is lamintis trust approved the very first ingredient (which means it's in the highest quantity) is alfalfa.

Alfalfa pellets provide a similar amount of energy to pasture mix, approx 9mj/kg. They're low in starch, usually low in sugar, non-molassed and high in fibre. I feed them in preference to a mix. It also provides high quality protein which can be lacking in the diets of good doers, etc that are on restricted grazing and small rations.

I'm not a huge fan of Hi-Fi Lite and neither is my horse, she refuses to eat it after a bit. I feed a bit of happy hoof as a chaff mixed in with a few mugs of alfalfa pellets (I soak them before feeding, 10 mins is enough but if you leave them for longer they swell up hugely and make a massive feed from just a small amount of pellets).

[eventerbabe]

Do you feed only Hi-fi lite, or do you add other things to it?
I think I'll stay clear of 'Calm and condition' what I really want is "wake-up and lose some condition"! :D
Hmmm, I thought that alfalfa was meant to be good, because it's so high in fibre, never mind. Back to the drawing board again!

bonnie gets just the hi-fi lite as she's doing nothing but inhand walking at the mo, toby gets the calm and condition with the hi-fi lite but i'm swapping him onto lammy light as calm and condition is putting too much condition on him!! you could maybe try some of these competition/sport mixes that are around. i don't know too much about them coz i've never had the need to use them. a friend of mine who does endurance used a lot of these HDF cubes.

Bebe, i meant straight alfalfa. my vet does not reccomend it or happy hoof due to its high sugar content. and hi-fi lite has much lower nutritional values than the original alfa-a making it much more suitable for lamanitics.

[alwaysfallingof]

Made from 100% Dengie alfalfa which is cut at its most nutritious stage of growth and high temperature dried (800°C).

Alfalfa pellets are a natural highly nutritious feed in a pelleted form. They supply 'slow releasing' energy in the form of highly digestible fibre, and provide good quality protein as well as a host of natural vitamins and minerals.

Alfalfa is naturally low in sugar (water soluble carbohydrates) and Dengie Alfalfa Pellets, unlike many other cubes or mixes, are also unmolassed. Alfalfa Pellets are ideal for those horses and ponies that require a low sugar diet and are a suitable feed for the healthy maintenance of horses and ponies prone to laminitis.

Dengie Alfalfa Pellets allow poor quality forage to be upgraded, whilst providing a good quality and nutritious feed for horses and ponies at a competitive price.

So, are Dengie lying when they say that it is low in sugar, or is it still high compared to some other things, but lower than mixes? Feeding is such a minefield :(

Anyone have any experiences with fibremix?


Edit - lol, EB, Max on competition mix!! I'd be pinged into the next county. He even bucks in *walk* when fed *pasture* mix. I'm treading such a fine line here :D

[eventerbabe]

no, they are not, but hi-fi is SPECIFICALLY designed to meet the nutritional needs of ponies and horses in light work and prone to laminitis. we used to feed alfa-a and it really fired bonnie up, there was a noticeable difference in her when we switched to hi-fi.

EDIT: actually, might be worth trying alfa-a on max, see if he gets a bit more lively! the difference in bonnie was amazing.

[alwaysfallingof]

Would that not really pile weight on him though? I've mostly heard it recommended for horses that needed to gain some condition.

[eventerbabe]

i'm not sure on that point. we switched to hi-fi 12 years ago and have never fed anything else. if i were you i'd maybe try contacting the feed companies direct for feeding advice. what sort of work is it max is doing??

[alwaysfallingof]

I think I might have to. Basically, he's in light/medium work - in a week he's typically schooled 3 times, hacked 2, and jumped once. I took him off hard feed when he started going out onto the grass, but now I've muzzled him at night, and he's in with 2/3 slices of hay during the day, but gets tired after about 15 minutes of schooling. Not losing any weight though :(
So...I think it's time to ring Dengie and see what they say, and I might speak to the feed man at the shop as well, cos he seems to know quite a lot. Argh, so confusing

[eventerbabe]

what feed does he get, if any?? a small amount of blue chip might give him the extra oomph he needs

[SarahC]

From my experience, Hi-fi Light will help to keep the weight off, but won't necessarily give him extra energy...if you wanted that, I think you would probably have to feed a mix as well.

Look at the protein levels as well as starch. Any protein over 9% will tend to give horses a bit more oommph (as my feed nutrionalist told me anyway!).

I've tried the fibremix easy and found it quite good, as your horse isn't on any hard feed at the mo and is muzzled when out, you might find that a bit of hard feed would provide the oomph your after, even if fed at low quanities to avoid weight gain.

Let us know what Dengie say! They were really helpful when I last spoke to them.

S

[alwaysfallingof]

He's not on any hard feed, because I was feeding him mollassed chaff and pasture mix over the winter, when the spring grass came through he came off the mix because he didn't need it, and it's full of sugar, ditto with the chaff which was *incredibly* sticky with sugar, and I couldn't think of giving it to an overweight native pony at this time of year.
Thanks SarahC, it's good to know that you're using and liking fibremix.

[LisaS]

My horse was on Hi-Fi Original, spillers high fibre nuts and sugar beet water over winter. Now the spring grass has come through and the weight is piling on I've switched to Hi-Fi lite with out the sugar beet but I found my mare neeeded extra umph.

I did alot of homework on the feed side and she is now sectioned off in a small paddock and her feed is hi-fi lite, a handful of high fibre cubes and Dengie Fibre Mix Extra. She is fed twice a day and has lost a little weight but now has the umph with no silliness. We do school 4/5 times a week and do at least 1/2 miles of hacking afterwards. The days we don't school we do 4/5 miles of hacking over lots of hills.

Hope that helps...

[eventerbabe]

this fibremix sounds very interesting. you can feed it alongside hi-fi aswell?? i'm looking to change tobys feed and this fibremix might be a better option than blue chip. Lisa, does the extra mix give them a lot more energy??

[SarahC]

Sorry to butt in again :o
The fibre mix extra is intended for horses doing medium level work which dengie class as eventing, endurance and showjumping etc. It does have quite high protein levels and digestible energy so would guess it would provide lots more overall energy.

Will await LisaS reply with aniticipation!! Be nice to compare someone's experience with the actual data and nutritional info!

S

[eventerbabe]

thats ok!! i just emailed Dengie and they reccomended the Fibremix easy. might give it a go when the calm and condition runs out. it really is putting on too much condition since we haven't been doing as much work!!

alwaysfallingoff- if you go on the dengie site and go to the ration option, put in your horses detalis and they will mail you back :)

[alwaysfallingof]

Yippee - more replies :D This is much more fun than A-level revision ;)
I'll go to their website now and have a look. I'm quite tempted by this fibremix stuff, I'll see what they say.
Thanks for all the input, it's been really interesting to hear what other people have to say about it.
Btw LisaS, what type is your horse? Is she a good do-er?

[eventerbabe]

it certainly seems like a good allround feed. i used to feed pasture mix and it drove toby loopy!!!! if you can find it, Broomhall coolmix is very good but its hard to track down as not many places stock it. didn't pile the weight onto my horse and gave him lots of energy without driving him mad!

[alwaysfallingof]

Ok, well I tried the online thing and Dengie have recommended: Hi-Fi Lite (which I don't think will give him enough energy) and Alfalfa pellets and Alfa-beet, which they say is for ponies that have trouble maintaining condition?!!!!
Could I have filled that in wrong? I think I might have to go try again!

[eventerbabe]

the hi-fi lite really is only like a hay replacer. i persume they've reccomended it to bulk the feed up a bit more. your energy may be from the alfalfa, certainly fired my mare up!!! it does say alfalfa has the same amount of energy in it as a pasture mix so thats a fair amount!!

[cvb]

Anyone seen this month's Horse where it quotes research on feed - which suggests that the higher number of dental cavities in horse's teeth may be related to more people feeding pelleted feed !

[Zingy]

Coming at this from a different angle, could the lack of 'oomph' be related to weight rather than feeding? I know my sec A is very very sensitive to weight gain - the slightest bit of weight going on affects his way of going and makes him relatively very lazy, and this is a long time before the weight gain becomes visible. Maybe it's more pronounced as well because of warmer weather?

I think I'd concentrate for now on getting the weight down if you think you need to. If that doesn't improve the situation, then revisit the feeds and see if you can make a difference that way. Problem is at the moment you're stuck with 2 completely conflicting aims - give more energy and reduce weight. But you can only reduce weight by using more energy than you feed.

[LisaS]

My horse is 3/4 warmblood, the rest TB and just has to look at food and her waistline grows :D

I do dressage and she is very fit but I find I have to watch her weight. I did have her on blue chip with alpha a during the winter then swapping to hi-fi lite in the summer but she was podgy and lacking umph. Sugar beet makes her hyper so I only give her the water in her feeds during the winter months.

I introduced the fibre mix 2 months ago and I would say I noticed a difference in her energy just after a week, she seems to be able to just keep going without any sillyness. I have weighed her and she has lost a little weight and does look so much better, she looks toned and conditioned instead of podgy and conditioned if you understand :)

I know all horses are different and what suits one doesn't suit another but I'm very pleased with the results.

Lisa

[janette carter]

I've been considering trying the Dengie Fibremix as a alternative to chaff and blue chip for my haflinger. Seems to be getting good reports. What I was wondering has anyone tried the fibremix made by Marksway the horsehage people? I think it is called Feelgood and they recommend it on their hoofkind diet.

[Drummers mum]

Thought I'd give you something else to keep you from your revision alwaysfallingoff!! :D

Drummer won't eat hi-fi light, he picks out his carrots then looks at me in disgust! lol! :rolleyes: So I think its going in the bin!

OK, bit of help, do I need to feed him?

Drummer is out 24/7, hes a little tubby :o (but thats mainly because he had a sore pelvis so had time off.) I'm hoping to gradually build the work back up after todays Bowen session and expect to school once/twice a week and hack 3 times, but a gradual increase.

At the moment he doesn,t get anything! What should I feed? I just get so wound up looking into it, everything contradicts everything else and there are so many feed companies :eek:

[alwaysfallingof]

Lol Drummer's Mum, thanks, appreciate it :p
I eventually decided that the fibremix would probably have too much sugar in it and so would stop him from losing any weight.
First question I would ask is how is he finding his workload. If he's not having any trouble managing the amount of work he's doing, then he can do without the feed :)
If he is getting tired easily, and you don't think it's down to general unfitness, then he might need something.
I eventually went for something I found called Alfa-A lite. This has alfalfa in a low sugar coating, and has a high percentage of protein, and a nice low percentage of starch. So far (in the two days that he's had it ;) ) then it seems to be working, and he absolutely loves it. I would maybe have got some alfalfa pellets, but I've been hearing some worrying things about ponies choking on them, and I'm a paranoid mummy.
Something else people have suggested (but I haven't been able to afford :o ) is to feed a balancer, lots of people seem to recommend Blue Chip, or Dengie have a Lo-Cal balancer out.
My friend recommended something called 'simple solution', but they didn't have any at the shop I went to.
I called Dengie, and they said that they didn't recommend fibremix for laminitic ponies.
When I went to a different shop a while ago, they had something called Equiglo-lite, which is a cereal mix, but coated in soya oil instead of molasses so doesn't send them loopy and is suitable for laminitics.
I know what you mean though, there is so much to choose from, and at the end of the day you get the feeling that it all has the same flipping stuff in it, so it really doesn't matter, as long as you don't do anything stupid like feeding racing mix :eek:

[LisaS]

Drummers Mum, Just a suggestion, have you tried Dengies Good doer. I have my pony on this and it is good for horses/ponies to control their expanding waistlines.

It is low in calories but has sufficient fibre and can be fed as a hay replacer. All the ones at our yard haven't refused it so it must be quite tasy.

Thought I'd just confuse you more :)