pressure points on the withers, saddles help - wally?

[floppy]

see picture attached. there are two pressure points shown.

Elja has on either side of her withers a small swelling under the skin where the left pressure point is shown on the withers picture. I have sold her old saddle that she grew out of and i have been riding around with her very light wintec saddle that acutally fit her. On one side the pressure point is slightly bigger. :(

What do i do now? What do i do about the pressure points she has? do i massage them?what can i do to ''relieve'' them? do i call a back person? do i call the vet? do i cancel riding? or can i just ride without a saddle??

[floppy]

no one have an idea?

[Yann]

I'll try :o

If you're getting pressure points there then I'm guessing it's one of two things - either your saddle is still too narrow, and is pinching, or it's too wide and the balance is too far forward causing too much pressure. Which colour gullet plate does it have in it?

If she's an icey and it's a wintec I'm guessing the former. Do you have a picture of the saddle on her back you could attach? It might help give us a clue. I wouldn't ride in it to be honest, could you use a blanket and surcingle till you get it sorted. Massaging the affected areas is a good idea too, especially if the muscle has started to suffer.

If you've been having saddle trouble it could well account for the napping troubles I think you'd said had returned.

[floppy]

thats what i thought regarding the napping, But then i was told that if it really was a problem then she would nap generally. THe wintec saddle i have resorted to using again since 2 weeks . Her other saddle she has outgrown.

But for the interest matter i will do a photo session with both saddles this week.

thanks Yann.

[galadriel]

Pressure points front and back suggest to me that the saddle is bridging. That's one of the hardest to diagnose from the outside, since it's near impossible to "see."

Can you get a saddle fitter where you are? A lot of the time bridging may be corrected with tweaking, and even the Wintec CAIR can be tweaked (although not as easily).

[Yann]

I think the pressure points are only at the front, rather than as in the picture.

[chapsi]

I suggest you email Remmy. She is a professional saddle fitter.

[galadriel]

Oooh, I see. Whoopsy.

Yes, pressure points just at the front are much more likely to be related to width of the saddle, or the gullet plate size in the Wintec.

Ah--remember Rachel_Event's interesting story about her Wintec, though. One of the screws holding the gullet plate on came loose. Then the point on the other side (still screwed on) broke off from the extra pressure. So even if the gullet plate is precisely the right size, the gullet plate may still be at fault.

[floppy]

Yes the points are at the front only. Very strange. and right where the underneath front panels start

hmm..i took photos, but they didnt come out aswell as expected :(. will try again tomorrow

Its very strange. It could also be as if she has developed new muscles, because when she accepts the bit the lumps disappear. but when she holds her head up they are back again.

The bummer with my wintec. You can't take it apart. Its not designed like the average ones. I cant even change the gullet myself.

Next week i have a morning off so i will pop along to the saddlers with saddle to get it checked over and see if i can pop along a second time with horse.

The vet is due imminanelty to give the other horses their flu boosters so i will get him to whisk a look at her. thanks everyone. will post pictures asap

[Beausowner]

I've got a Bates - the leather version of the Wintec. Just had a chiropractic out as my boy was putting his ears back in trot - he was also doing it when I went to put saddle on but then put them forward until we trotted. She said the saddle didn't fit and checked rest of him which was basically fine (she doesn't need to come out to him again). Got out saddler and gullet plate too wide, gone from medium wide to medium. I haven't ridden him in this yet (she came out last Wednesday) - chiropractic said to walk him in hand for a couple of days, then walk, then build up to trot etc. Will ride tomorrow and see what he does. The pressure point was at the front each side of his withers.

[Wally]

I'm probably the last person to ask as I don't liek Wintecs!

You have some saddle fit problem without question, but without even seeing a picture of the saddle on the horse with the rider in it it is almost impossible to say what the hassle is.

If I was getting swellings under my saddle I'd not be using it or riding the horse until the swelling was gone.

Cold packs can help to reduce the swelling.

[Keeka]

I've only recently become aware of the dangers of an ill-fitting saddle as I've always ridden at riding schools where that sort of thing was already sorted out. As a result, I've been doing a lot of research into saddle fitting and have read a lot of interesting information. One suggestion I read of was quite clever. The fitter said to take a piece of 8 gauge wire (I would imagine that's quite thin) and to bend it over the horses withers so that you get the shape of the horses withers without the saddle to interfere. You then take the wire and trace the shape on to a piece of thick cardboard, then cut out the cardboard and put it against the gullet and shoulder area of the saddle you are planning to use. That way, you can see exactly how it fits without soft muscle tissue confusing the issue - you can also take your cut-out to a saddler and use it as a gauge when buying a new saddle. There are a lot of saddle fitting manuals online which will give you a good idea of the fit you are looking for.

Just another quick word on Wintecs. They are great saddles - and are lighter than most conventional saddles. But an ill-fitting Wintec will do just as much damage as a normal saddle because it is supposed to be designed to disperse the weight of the rider - not the saddle. The only issue that I have with Wintecs is that people think that they are absolutely amazing and that any Wintec can fit any horse. This is not true. Some horses will never fit into a Wintec while others may need the Wintec WIDE - a Wintec designed especially for cobs or other wider backed and shouldered horses. Even if yours fits into a 500 or 2000, you may still struggle to get the saddle to fit your horse properly. Definitely have a professional come and take a look.

You say your horses 'bumps' dissapear when she goes on the bit. I've recently discovered a horse that has a similar problem. He is an impressive warmblood cross and is still quite young and has not been schooled very much. When he goes on the bit, his neck muscles almost seem to elongate and take on a whole new look. But for the most part of his day, he seems to run around with his neck high in the air (though not when you're on him) and I suspect this has led to him developing the muscles in his neck a bit oddly. But you should first check the fit of your horses saddle, then ask a vet (or you could do both), and if it is a muscle thing, ask a trainer to help you sort it out.

[floppy]

The wintec is different compared to all the other wintecs that most people have. It's specially designed for gaited horses and is very simple.
It was eljas first saddle that i bought when she was overweight. Then she lost weight and the saddle was too wide and i got a new leather saddle that fitted her for all of 1.5yrs and now she has broaden again and has her correct figure and weight So i have been using her wintec again for the past 2 weeks and before that she was away for training. The points appeared before using her wintec again, but while she was at another yard for training my trainer used her own saddles, one of which was the same wintec and the other a leather saddle that fitted elja really well.

iwill post the pictures i have, they are not so good i dont think.

[floppy]

Only a few came out ok, the others really werent good from the angle. Ehm , are the pictures ok or should i have her fully tacked up and take a picture of the whole horse? she was for these pictures tied up with just the saddle on. She is also standing pointing downhill slightly because we have no super flat fsurface in the stable.

The points i have been massaging with cold pack everyday a few times, she also gets arnica globules (as recommended by a vet friend) and the vet is due out sometime in the next 2 days and on the weekend my trainer is here. Now the task is to find a saddler...they are rare in this area. the last 2 days we been out riding small rides with just a saddle blanket. to see if the lumps decrease.


i dont like wintecs much either, prefer leather myself. But as you can all see it isnt much of a saddle anyway. They have improved the designed now to cater for the cair & flair.

The first picture just slipped in for elja to say 'elo to every one :)

[galadriel]

I'd rather see pics much, much closer; could you try to find a relataively flat area outside in brighter light? First impression is that the angle is too wide, but it's so far & dark it's hard to tell. By the way, pics are best without anything else--no girth, no pad, just the saddle.

[happy herman]

that is truely a beautiful pony!!
have you checked out the dirt and the sweat patterns this saddle is leaving?
i've checked saddles on a horse that appeared to fit perfectly but when i'd check the dirty pattern on a clean saddle pad sometimes i'd be horrified to find that ground in dirt showed in some places and no dirt at all in others.
also on the sweat pattern some would be nice and even and other's would show dry places where there shouldn't be dry places!!
this saddle fitting is a troublesome thing!!

[floppy]

Ok galadriel, i will take this afternoon both saddles down to horse and try and get some better photos without all the extras. :)

thankyou happy herman.

[floppy]

so new pictures, are they better?
battery ran out on camera so i will take pictures of other saddle later. The battery died on me as i was taking a picture from the front of the saddle. will post that also later

[floppy]

one more
(on page 2 are a couple more pictures) :)

[happy herman]

in the pictures that saddle appears to be too low in the front, almost right on the withers. it would be even lower with a rider in the saddle.

[Beausowner]

Happy Herman - my Bates was too low on the withers, which caused the pressure points - the new smaller gullet has pushed it back up.

[floppy]

i can fit 3 fingers between the pommel and the horses back (actually four but my pinky finger ist somwhat shorter than the other ones. ) and when i sit in the saddle i can still slide 3 fingers in.

Here is a not so good picture of me sitting in the saddle. Both horse and me were looking at camera.

second picture is also a frontal picture

Vet was there today and said the points are defintely from a saddle.

[galadriel]

Okay--in that last picture, the saddle does not appear to be touching all along the front. It looks like the upper part of the panel is not touching the horse, then the lower part is. The shadows make it very hard to tell just where the saddle is and the shadows are; do you think you can check?

[Dizzy]

What type of saddle is it? I notice that you haven't fastened the girth on most of photos, the lowest part of the seat looks as though its too far back, which will place your behind the centre of gravity.

The photo with you on top, has your bum right at the back of the saddle with lots of room up front. The saddle looks an odd shape to me, the pommel rises too early, and seems to hood the withers (hope you understand what I mean). But it appears to place your seat too far back.

Is the pressure points under the stirrup bars?

Elijah is looking absolutely gorgeous by the way, saddle fit is a nightmare, I've just spent a £500 today myself on a saddle that I've waited for since February to fit my little coloured mare - so I do sympathise and hope you find an answer soon.

[floppy]

Galadriel requested pictures without saddle blanket and girth - she would need then a wider saddle or if the panels arent touching compeltely?

i post one for you dizzy with girth.

The red lines mark the edges of the saddle so you can see where saddle is and otherwise the rest is shadow.

The saddle is an icelandic Saddle, we place the saddle about a hands width or so behind the shoulder to allow complete freedom of the shoulder to move for the tolt. Icelandics also have practically no withers what so ever like ''normal'' horses

Thanks dizzy, Elja is on a very controlled diet this year. :)

here are a few pictures just to show one of my trainers that lives FAAR waway with my mates horse and the same wintec tolt saddle. Skjo 2 shows it better