Pelham compromise?

[Janey Painy]

I'm planning on buying a Pelham (as soon as I get payed :D ) for Esther, to help with riding her in the Enlightened Equitation way. But until then, would it be a good idea to improvise and ride her in a Dutch Gag (or continental snaffle - same thing) with two reins? One on the snaffle ring, the other on the bottom ring. I don't want to hurt her, so I thought I'd ask everyone first if this is a good idea.
At the moment she is ridden in a copper and stainless steal roller snaffle. She somehow always manages to get my rein contact very slack. Other times - like when she spooks - she's very strong.
Any comments?
God bless,
Jane

[Wally]

I'd wait for the Pelham, the bits you mention don't have the same action, get a soft rubber pelham too, our Fjord loves hers and is a different horse in it.

[liz--y]

i wouldnt ride her in a dutch gag

[Heather]

I would definitely not ride her in a Dutch gag, and would really recommend that you use an elastic curb chain too, Jainy, once you try the Pelham. They are available from most saddlers, and about £4.


Heather

[LindaAd]

Just curious ..... why don't you like Dutch gags?:rolleyes:

[ros]

I'm not replying on behalf of Heather, but Dutch gags are rather odd bits which for some reason seem to be very popular. They must be confusing for the horse, because you get a degree of poll action due to the leverage factor (as you do with a curb bit) but at the same time the mouthpiece of the bit, being attached to a loose ring, is levered upwards in the horse's mouth; so one action says "lower your head" and the other says "get your head up"!

As for Pelhams, I've just started riding my 5-year old in one and the difference was instant and amazing. He seems MUCH happier in it than in his french-link snaffle; I actually feel as though I'm in total control, but on the weight of the reins alone - it's a lovely feeling. We even trotted home along his favourite racing route the other night, and he was calm and rounded - a different horse, just as Wally said about his Fjord pony. I' definitely recommend them.

[Janey Painy]

That explains a lot! My other mare (who is a real nutter) hates the dutch gag. Why are bits still being made then if they do the horse no good? Someone should stop the manufacturers! Polly (the nutter) would nose dive in it all the time. Even though it is supposed to be a strong bit, my brakes were worse. She goes much better in her English hackamore (sp?) which people give me strange looks for..... but if something works, who cares!?
My Peham arrives soon, maybe today! Plus two new sets of reins. I'm a bit nervous about having so much to think about when I start riding Esther again. I feel like a begginer, everything I knew has been blown away by Enlightened Equitation!
:D

[ros]

It's amazing how many weird and wonderful contraptions have been invented to go in horses' mouths; I suppose manufacturers just supply what the consumer demands. And there always seems to be one horse that goes well in a strange bit, which makes other people think it will work wonders for them! I'm amazed that you can still buy such horrors as the Scorrier snaffle by mail order...

Don't worry about the double reins - I felt like a complete novice when I set out the other day, even though I used to ride my old horse in a Pelham years ago, but after the first ride I got the hang of it again, nothing to it!

Hope your horse likes it, let us know how u get on.

[LindaAd]

Thanks for the explanations about the Dutch gag, ros. My cob Barney came with one of those, a jointed one, just to make it sillier; he was quite happy in it, but I thought it was a pointless bit, and changed to a French link snaffle, which he seems quite happy in.

But my instructor has been using a Dutch gag on her youngster, who leaned very hard on a snaffle; she says he's lighter in it.... curious. I'd like to suggest a Pelham, but I don't think she'd listen to me. Perhaps I'll just lend her my copy of Heather's book.

I've just thought: could it be called a Dutch gag because it's not a real gag? The way Dutch courage isn't real courage, and a Dutch treat is no-one's treat ........;)

[ros]

Ha ha, you're probably right! It's also known as a continental gag, continental snaffle, and bubble bit, I think.

I can't help wondering about your instructor's youngster. Most young horses are heavy on the forehand until they learn to balance themselves, and using fancy bits is quite likely to give a false impression of "lightening" in front. I should have thought proper schooling with lots of balancing exercises (turns, transitions and so on) would be kinder and more effective.

Another question - possibly one for Heather. Some horses aren't really built for Pelhams - we have a small Dales cross on the farm who has an incredibly long head; his owner rides him in a vulcanite Pelham with a Grakle noseband. He has trouble closing his mouth over the thick mouthpiece, and also the curb chain is way up aganist his jawbone rather than sitting in the curb groove (so far up that a lipstrap wouldn't help at all). For horses like this, what's the best alternative to a Pelham?

[LindaAd]

I know what you mean ros, but he's not as young as all that: he's five; she's been working with him for quite a while and he has found his balance, even in canter, and they're being quite successful at Prelim level. I'm not experienced enough to say what the problem is, but I'm sure she'll work it out.

[Janey Painy]

Well, a couple of days ago, my new stuff arrived. Esther seems to have taken well to the pelham, it's just me! I feel like my hands are awfully full, especially with a dressage whip (it has a thin handle, and my reins aren't too thick). I suppose it's just while I adjust, but I'm not griping them enough for long enough to get a chance to see some real results. Does that make sense? I am gently squeezing them as described in Heathers book, but after a few strides Esther will come into a lovely outline, and I will reward her by opening my fingers, but then I seem to loose contact completely and have to interrupt her by getting my hands sorted again.:rolleyes:

I know rein contact has always been a bit like my flaw. I hate having tight reins; instructors have always been getting on to me to "take up more contant.....MORE CONTACT!" etc., but I like having my reins fairly slack. Just the other day I went for a lesson at a riding school. This was the first time in years that I've had a lesson on a horse that wasn't one of my own. The instructor (who was quite terrible to be honest! I'm told she is a dressage judge....) kept me on the right rein 95% of the lesson (weird?) and was constantly saying the dreaded "inside leg, outside hand!!!". She had my left rein soooo tight that my ring finger is cut, bleeding and blistered! That poor horse! I felt like getting off and shoving the bit in her mouth and pulling it that tight! Anyway, so much for impulsion! The horse went MUCH better at the start of the lesson when I had barely any contact, just using my weight aids. ;)

Hmm, I could rant on for ages about how horrible that lesson was, but basically I want to know how tight the reins should be? How do you keep them like that while remaining flexible through the fingers? I know it's all probably in the pressing of the reins between the fisrt finger and thumb.... but I can't seem to do it without becoming too tense in my arms/hands which surely the horse will pick up on :( grrr!

Help!
God bless,
Janey

[liz--y]

also heard them called 3 ring snaffle, these bits seemed to be the fasion a while ago, everyone was riding in them

[LindaAd]

Contact.. This is an interesting one..... as no-one more knowledgeable has commented , I'll jump in and say that this seems to be a big difference between the "classical" and "enlightened" people, who prefer a light contact - as light as possible? - and the BHS, who like it to be quite strong... Sometimes excessively strong, as people have said.

As for me, I'm old enough that I first learned to ride before they talked about contact, at least at the lower levels, and the ideal was "light hands". But I've found that if I try and make the contactt light, it goes jerky, and erratic, probably because I'm not 100% secure in my seat, and Barney hates it. He also hates it if it's too strong, especially in canter - either way, he shakes his head and bucks. So I'm working on "firm but elastic".... and maybe we'll be able to lighten it later.

[Mossy]

Just a thought and one which will do nothing for your dignity but if you want a soft contact but are not sure of your balance - know the feeling well - try a neck strap for a while.

[Sue Carnell]

A neckstrap could make you tip forward, or straighten your arms. Better than that would be a strap attached to the front of the saddle, to be held lightly, purely to keep your hands steady. Not to pull you into the saddle. We have them on all the saddles at Heather's and most riders have to hold it a bit until their seats improve. It also helps prevent you from relying on the reins too much and is a lot more discreet than a neckstrap. :)

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Miriam]

When I first bought Rhi I put her in a Pelham with a single rein as I had never used a double rein as the last pony I had had a Pelham with a single rein. I have always been told that you do not use a double rien on a Pelham unless you know what you are doing so to me using a single was better than using double. What I want to know is 'Is it OK to use a single rein on a Pelham'. When I got my instructor she immediatley took the Pelham out and said that Rhi was far too young for a it (she was 5yrs at the time) and switched her into a snaffle also saying it was too harsh. She started well in this and then became a bit of a handful and the bit was changed again. She goes well in this bit (not sure what it is called). A girl on the yard who is also a riding instructor and rode Rhi out said it would be better for her).

In Heather's book I notice she tends ot use only Pelhams. Would I do be doing Rhi any harm if in the future I wanted to go back to a Pelham with single rein? Before anyone says it yes I have heard 'If it's not broken why fix it' which is why I am only asking as I am now wondering if it would have made any difference if I had left Rhi in the Pelham.

[M1TOO]

Hi Miriam - I also being a novice rider with a novice horse found the snaffle unsuitable for my girl as she was head shaking on and off whilst being ridden 6 mths ago - now she is in single rein rubber pelham and I know once my hands become more adept at the aids and how to apply them I should progress to double reins at some point - however its important to have an instructor who can fully explain the use of double reins for both rider and horse enjoyment!!! I know what you mean about a bit of a handful though...:) :) My only experience so far with double reins has been down at Heather's 1st seminar last year so when I go again next week I hope to have a better understanding of double reins...

Just a thought - can anyone explain why at our local showing class all horses have to be ridden in a snaffle when clearly this bit does not suit every horse??? is this normal when showing???

Appreciate any comments... M1TOO

[Mike]

We have a FAQ section (http://www.newrider.com/Kinder_Way/faq.html) pulled out from older messages from this board where Heather runs through some of the thinking behind her use of the pelham.

In general I understand that the use of single reins on a pelham doesn't get the best from the bit as you can't get the independant control of it's two pieces which is the reason you're trying it in the first place. If you can, go for the double reins straight-away. I found them a bit of a handful at first but you soon get used to it.

[sultie]

I hate to go against the grain but I jump in a double jointed dutch gag (or whatever you call it!) it gives me the brakes I need and the softness I am wanting. Minto likes it and goes well in it and I feel it works by lowering his head and the loose ring gives a little play so he dosn't lean or pull. Minto is the first one to tell you if he is confused or unhappy about something which he hasn't done in this bit.

I don't think I am just going with the fasion i really do think this is the best bit i have found for him. ps I school and hack in a double jointed loose ring snaffle.

[Mike]

Good points, Sultie. In the end it must be the most important to listen to what the horse is trying to tell us, and if something works well stay with it. As you say, fashions in the horse world come and go and it's easy to be swayed by what's current. I think it's a balancing act between not being afraid to experiment in case you discover something new and following the crowd.

[Janey Painy]

I used to ride Polly in a vulcanite Pelham with just one rein attatched to the bottom ring and without a curb chain. I have no idea why, this was years ago and I guess I didn't know any better. But I watched a video of us competing a few days ago (that is, I was watching the video a few days ago, the competition was about 4 years ago!) and I noticed that she was opening her mouth a lot when I pulled back with my hands (my riding was pretty terible, I don't know how we were so successful!?). Anyway, I don't think riding with a pelham on one rein is a good idea, if you do that, surely you'll loose the whole idea of the pelham's different actions?

As for the pommel strap, thats sounds a handy piece of equipment. But that isn't going to solve the problem I'm having with knowing how tight the reins should be. My hands are steady, but I like the reins loose so I can't rely on my hands to pull me up and hurt the horse. I just can't seem to keep them at one particular length; unless they are very slack. Esther is like a 7 year old baby (she has only been lightly backed, then turned away for 2 years until I found her). So of course I want to get it right from the start , and I think having to fiddle around with rein lengths is doing her no good. Can't I just have them REALLY slack? But will she still be able to feel my hand signals?
She is the most sensitive horse I have ever known. She's also MEGA intelligent and willing to learn/please.

I can't ride for a while now anyway:( I was just about to ride yeaterday when I noticed she was ever so slightly lame. After exploring I found a nail in her hoof!:eek: She seems ok today, but I'd better go and change the poultice now actually.:rolleyes:

God bless,
Janey

[ros]

I know what you mean, Janey, about fiddling with rein lengths - I do it with one rein, never mind two, and I know I shouldn't. When I bought Merlin's new Pelham I stuck some old (and a bit stiff!) leather reins on the curb just to see if he liked it. When I found he did I went off to buy a new set, and (partly because they were only a tenner!) I bought some Libby's synthetic reins which have a rubberised side - not both sides, just the one. When I tried them out I was really pleased. They aren't too wide so they're not bulky like ordinary rubber reins, and because they have the rubberised grip they don't slip through your fingers, which meant I could get them where I wanted them and then forget about fiddling! I'm seriously considering ditching my smart leather reins and getting a second pair of Libby's.

(Can someone please explain why I have this feeling that it's not the done thing? Would Heather disapprove?)

[Maria]

Hi Ros

Several of Heather's schoolmasters sport two sets of Libby's reins on their pelhams! So I don't think Heather would disapprove. Another advantage is you save on tack cleaning because you just put them in the washing machine. A real asset when you've got a sweaty cob like mine!


The only problem I've found with the reins on Carrie is that they blow about a bit on a windy day. Also they spare loop can get caught under the saddle flap.

Maria

PS. I'm always impressed by the service that Libby's provide.

[Sue Carnell]

The pommel strap could help. It could stop you fiddling, losing the reins and having to sort out your hands. A good start might be to take all the slack out of the rein and then hold lightly onto the strap too. You could be surprised at how much it helps. If you can't keep a steady contact, because your horse is green, it really could help you. The problem is usually in the seat really.

Try it. It can't hurt and you might be surprised.

I hope Esther is fine again soon.

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Dizzy]

I know this has nothing to do with using a pelham and two reins. But over the past few days I have backed my 4 yr old. I try to ride on a light/elastic contact, closing/opening my hand/s to ask for halt and rein change. I did find when turning that I was letting my outside contact drop, which Breeze (my horse) found misleading/confusing.

For the past couple of days I've longreined with the lines clipped to the head collar side rings, but through the bit and concentrated on keeping a contact (not strong, firm but elastic), when working on a figure of eight, I noticed that when the contact slackens when I'm adjusting the length of each line for the change of rein, she wombles off track. I am now much better with the lines and have managed to mantain a good contact, all I can say is what a difference, understanding written all over her face.

This has been a learning curve for me, I have obviously been confusing her by not maintaining a constant contact on both riens. I'm glad I went back to long reining - I think I've learnt more than she has, as she responded imediately and only got confused when the communications lines dropped.

Breeze's humble pupil

Lesley

[LindaAd]

Thansk for the advice about the saddle-strap, Sue. I'll try it. I've been trying riding with one hand in the school, so I have almost no contact, just legs and seat. The horse seems to like that, and when I pick up the reins again he's more responsive.

By the way, I keep hoping you mind find yourself with a cancellation on a training day and e-mail me. Or have you written me off?

Lesley (Breeze), I know exactly what you mean about dropping the outside rein - this is what I'm always being told off for and it worries Barney too. Longreining sounds a good idea for seeing exactly what you're doing. I've never tried it because I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to keep up with the horse.

[JumperGirl]

I have also seen an attachment for pelhams, like that attaches to both rings on the bit, but only uses one rein.

[Sue Carnell]

Hi Linda,

I haven't written you off. :) I'm not likely to have any free dates before October now though. I'll let you know.

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Maria]

Hi JumperGirl

The attachment is called a rounding in the UK. To use the pelham in the way Heather describes you need to use two separate reins. See Mike's reference to FAQs.

Maria

[LindaAd]

Really struggling with the canter, for some reason. In a lesson today I tried holding the straps that hold the breastplate to the saddle, to see if that would help keep my hands steady ( a sort of ready-made pommel strap) , but I had no control at all, and ended up with a horrible trot. My instructor said what I need is practice on one of those equi-simulators, so I'm hoping we can organise it for October, Sue.

[Sharon H]

I bought two pairs of Libby's reins (Again, because they were a tenner!) for my pelham but I found that having two identical reins made it more difficult to distinguish which was which if you needed to pick them up in a hurry. I like the grip factor on them but I also find it's more difficult to let the reins slide through your fingers if you need to, like if the horse stumbles? I hate giving them a jab in the mouth if that happens. I only have small hands and years ago I used to ride in a pelham with a 'normal 'rein on the top ring and a proper curb rein on the bottom one. I think I'll treat myself to a new pair of curb reins for the bottom ring, if they are leather ones I should be able to slide them better. For people who have the same problem you could alwways try two sets of curb reins they're not so much of a handful. The other thing I thought of with the Libby's ones is that a pair of leather reins will break if the horse gets loose and caught up on something but of course the webbing ones wouldn't would they? Am I just being a bit too safety concious? Any thoughts? Ros, if you'd like to buy my pair of Libby's reins (They're black and cob size) let me know I've only used them once.

[ros]

Thanks for the offer, Sharon, but I already bought my 2nd pair!

If you were showing in a double you'd probably have two pairs of fine reins the same, so you wouldn't have the luxury of being able to tell by feel which was which, but I agree it's handy if they're different while the feeling is still new. I don't worry about the slip factor, because if my elbows are hanging straight down by my sides as they should be (which means I'm not riding on an unnaturally short rein) I have a fair bit of margin if my horse should stumble - mind you I've got pretty long arms anyway, which helps. I also wouldn't worry too much about the reins getting caught in case of an accident, because I would never use a synthetic bridle, so something somewhere would give.

I may well go back to leather reins after I've got the hang of having to cope with two sets again, and have cured myself of the fiddling habit.

[Janey Painy]

I rode Esther for the first time since the nail injury today! I don't know why, but for some reason I didn't have so much trouble with the reins today :) Maybe that's because I decided not to focus too much attention on my hands, as much as the whole picture?? I kept doing head-to-toe checks on my position, but once, I got sooo focussed on me that I had myself just perfect..... but something was wrong...? Oh right! Esther had stopped! Ooops! :o
Anyway, I was chuffed with my hands and on the whole everything went well!!!

God bless,
Janey Painy

[ros]

Glad to hear Esther is feeling better, Jane, and also that you're getting the hang of this double rein business. Me next as soon as my saddle arrives....! Keep posting.

[Fran_C]

I used to know this pony who was owned by someone at the yard who rode beautifully (v. light hands) but wasn't an experienced rider. She first got this fizzy pony in a roller sanffle and it was a maniac, any touch on the bit and it would turn nutty, it was the same for a loose ring snaffle, the kimblewick was an improvement, but the head carriage was awful, this girl then was told to use a dutch gag by her not so brilliant instructor, and this pony went beautiffully in it, it was a happy mouth one. But then a pelham wasn't ever tried nor a happy mouth snaffle so maybe it was the happy mouth, the pony was always a little strong but it was 25 year5s old and badly trained from the beginning. However ridden in a headcollar the pnoy was perfectly controllable in all paces and over jumps so maybe it was the whole bitting thing.

[ros]

But then, that's what it's all about at the end of the day - finding the right bit for your horse. They're all different, and as soon as you make hard and fast rules some horse will come along and break them! Glad this particular pony got bitted to suit it.