Outline and softening

[tolka]

I'm learning to ride in a correct outline at the moment, I can do this at halt and walk and today i got at the trot with intermittent head throwing :rolleyes: :D but i have to admit i dont fully know/understand what i'm doing. I ride at 2 different schools and i've been taught two different methods (i'm kinda doing a combination at the moment)

1/ "play with the reins checks and widen " and click till horse drops head if this doesn't work then "wiggle " seat and try again.

2/ Alternate leg aids (light) and checking at the front if tries to rush or evade

Both of which "getting the horse to work from behind" first. Could someone clarify the correct way or describe it any better for me?
Thanks :)

[ponylover88]

...

[galadriel]

You need a soft, consistent contact overall. No matter what you do to ask the horse to soften and round, overall the contact should be consistent and not busy.

Widening the reins can be used to teach a rider, or a horse, how to bring the horse's head down and soft. Obviously, it's not the way most people actually ride :) it's a step in teaching, not an end in and of itself.

Every horse is a little different. What you do to get the horse engaged from behind and working through the back can vary from horse to horse; it may vary a little or a lot. Horses may want a stronger or lighter contact. Horses may want more or less leg. There isn't so much a "correct" method as a general idea--which you've got.

I'd suggest going with half-halts to try to bring the horse up & back; if you maintain contact and the horse comes up and back, then voila! You're there ;)
http://lorienstable.com/articles/riding/900-half-halt/

The fewer strong aids you use, the more likely the horse will settle and give to the contact. If you're being firm or busy or otherwise "shouting" your aids, the horse may respond too strongly to stay soft (eg, throwing head). So try to make the aids quiet, quiet and minimal, but keep that contact and encourage horse to engage that hind end.

[jUmPingIsLifE]

my old trainer was all about opening your hands WIDE and doing left rights and around corners you would have your outside rein as far out as you could get it and half halting toward your hip the inside rein. adding left adn rights if the horse brought its head up or nose out. it allways seemed to work but i have never heard of anyone else to do it this way!!


Now i do it my current instructers way and the way that i feel works best for Tahoe. i get him working well from behind, using circles and serpintines and sometimes a little haunches out on a circle or a slight leg yield. i have a good contact on the outside rein expecaily and lightly play with the inside rein to keep a bend. soft contact on both reins and he really goes right into a cute little frame. he does take a lot of work, and im exhausted by the end of the ride but i feel like i have a nice round horse under me, not a strung out false frammed horse.

[ponylover88]

my old trainer was all about opening your hands WIDE and doing left rights and around corners you would have your outside rein as far out as you could get it and half halting toward your hip the inside rein. adding left adn rights if the horse brought its head up or nose out. it allways seemed to work but i have never heard of anyone else to do it this way!!

...
Now i do it my current instructers way and the way that i feel works best for Tahoe. i get him working well from behind, using circles and serpintines and sometimes a little haunches out on a circle or a slight leg yield. i have a good contact on the outside rein expecaily and lightly play with the inside rein to keep a bend. soft contact on both reins and he really goes right into a cute little frame. he does take a lot of work, and im exhausted by the end of the ride but i feel like i have a nice round horse under me, not a strung out false frammed horse.

...

[andreaB]

is it just me but i think LEG is getting underestimated here , its not just about 'fiddling' with the horses mouth/head to get it in but riding the horse forward , encouraging engagement of the quarters & containing that with the hands , ie working him through his body

the phrase riding from the leg into the hand springs to mind??

[cvb]

I'm learning to ride in a correct outline at the moment, I can do this at halt and walk and today i got at the trot with intermittent head throwing :rolleyes: :D but i have to admit i dont fully know/understand what i'm doing. I ride at 2 different schools and i've been taught two different methods (i'm kinda doing a combination at the moment)

1/ "play with the reins checks and widen " and click till horse drops head if this doesn't work then "wiggle " seat and try again.

2/ Alternate leg aids (light) and checking at the front if tries to rush or evade

Both of which "getting the horse to work from behind" first. Could someone clarify the correct way or describe it any better for me?
Thanks :)

Tolka

You will find that there is more than one thing going on here

firstly: how to ask a horse who is NOT in a correct outline to work in a correct outline
secondly: how to maintain that !

what you find is that a lot of people have "tricks" for the first one but then just carry on asking once they get it...

Dealing with the first... the aids you will use will depend on what you are asking for. i.e. why is the horse not going in an outline in the first place ? This is a key question and explains why it is not always the same way of asking. I thoroughly endorse what Galadriel says. Remember that working in an outline is not just about where the horse's head is ;) so its more than just a rein aid. The rein aid is to ask the horse to soften its jaw and accept the bit. Once its done that you don't have to keep asking ! But as a rider you need to be sensitive to why the horse may be resisting the bit, and also use the minimum aid required. A very small movement in the rider hand (simply closing the grip) moves the bit a lot in the horse's mouth. So larger movements in the rein can actually work against you by creating more resistance !

And to go in an outline the horse also needs to be able work from their back end, through their back, in a balanced way. And how you use your seat, weight, legs affects that. You need the horse to be straight, active, forward - so if its not, your aids are asking it (to straighten, be active etc).

But once the horse is "in" an outline, you are only going to "ask" (use an aid) if you want something to change (direction, speed, length of stride).

To cut a long story short - any aid you use should have a purpose. When the result is achieved, stop asking. If the result is not achieved, review the aid !

[tolka]

thanks for that guy's, so generally i've got the right idea i just need to work on the balance from the leg to the hand. Yet another thing thats gonna take time to develop :rolleyes:

[Dizzy]

The best way to get a horse to respond to your aids is to know, firstly what you are asking for and why. Then why you are are using the aids your instructor has suggested, and why they should work - in other words understand how and why you influence the horse, and then you are in a position to adapt your aids to each horse you ride.

Until you 'feel' the horse responding to your aids and understand what you've done, its not easy and it does take time and effort - but it is time well spent.

All the best.

[oxowoman]

is it just me but i think LEG is getting underestimated here , its not just about 'fiddling' with the horses mouth/head to get it in but riding the horse forward , encouraging engagement of the quarters & containing that with the hands , ie working him through his body

the phrase riding from the leg into the hand springs to mind??

so do many others!!

[jUmPingIsLifE]

"inside leg to outside rein" (i could have that backwards) but that is my currect instructers phrase. she is allways talking about riding into your hands and havn't a strong leg.

[cvb]

Jumpingislife - scuse me but I'm going to be a bit naughty here :p

Ditz said: The best way to get a horse to respond to your aids is to know, firstly what you are asking for and why.

and you said: "inside leg to outside rein" (i could have that backwards) but that is my currect instructers phrase.

So - do you feel you know WHY its inside leg into outside rein ? Because thats the next stage - understanding the WHY, so you know WHEN to use it ;)

[jUmPingIsLifE]

not exactly, i have been doing alot of this this summer though. i know how to get what we want, when to soften when to push and when to let the front end go a bit to get the hind end working ect now, but now that you mention it i have never been explained to the whole 'why' of it all. i know why the hind end needs to be under the horse but not why its inside leg-outside rein

[cvb]

Jumpingislife - do ask your intructor :D

but the basic "why" is that we spend a lot of time working in an arena, with an "inside" and an "outside". So what would you need to do to get the same result if there was not an inside and outside ? e.g. if you were riding a straight trail ?

The only reason I pose this is that straightness can be a big issue in getting the horse going correctly !

[DITZ]

just wanted to say jumpinglife dont feel bad about not really understanding - it wasnt till about 4 months ago that I had my 'eureka moment' regarding inside leg/outside hand. It took years for the penny to drop!

[cvb]

Jumpingislife

just to expand a bit as well. A lesson with a friend who is a BHSI a few months back - she had us riding well off the track.

When you ride on the track, there can be a tendency for both rider and horse to use the wall/fence/track as a support. i.e. you are not truely straight - if the wall wasn't there you'd go sideways :eek:
The thing is that with an arena fence there, we have less feedback for when we are using too MUCH inside leg or outside hand etc and creating a banana-shaped horse ;)

So it can be a really useful exercise to ride, say, 1m off the track and see what happens. Its interesting to see how wobbly you get when you ride off track. Yet what is the first thing we do in most dressage tests ? ride up the centre line ! And how many Show Jumps are against the wall ? !


Overall, the idea of "leg into hand" is sound - tho for western riding there is a lot less of both :cool:

I was at a lesson over the weekend - western this time - and he was suggesting we ask the horses to collect, and if they don't soften then use the leg, as the next "phase" of asking. So really its not so different ;) Tho he did point out that I tended to revert to "english" riding any time things started going wrong :rolleyes:

Anyway - basically you are asking the horse to accept the aids and go softly. So the hand and leg, once they go soft, are a supporting "aid". Like a hug ;) or a handshake - Not too tight, not too soft. But they are not already soft, then you are dealing with whatever tension is there. In most cases this is a resistance/bracing in the jaw, and a bracing against the leg - so we ask with hand and leg. If it was a crookedness thing, you would be asking slightly differently - to correct the crookedness, and so on.