Show fit or just fat?

[JOJOBA]

I saw a horse for sale the other day, and my first thought when I saw the picture was 'good god, a horse that pregnant shouldnt even be under the saddle, let alone showing'.
I then went on to read that it was a gelding :rolleyes:.
It just had the biggest gut Ive ever seen on an animal, yet it said 'wins too numerous to mention' and 'qualified for many major events' etc etc. It was a show hack, by the way.
Ive heard people complaining that judges favour overweight horses but this was just ridiculous. Half the hunters and hacks, and especially M&M ponies which top the lines at shows seem, to me at least, to be very overweight.
I know big crests and bums are a good thing, but not when there's obvious dimply cellulite all over them?

I let my horse carry a little too much weight in the summer, Im aware of that, but that's just because he fades away in the winter! Im always conscious that he's fat and yet he isnt carrying as much as half the horses I know.

Do these show horses not develop awful problems later in life?

I'll see if I can find an example (I sincerely hope I dont find one which belongs to anyone off here!)

What are your thoughts?

xxx

[eventerbabe]

i've lost count of the number of times a judge (in M&M classes) has said to me Bonnie needed to be carrying significaltly more weight. the effects of obesity in a horse i can imagine are similar to that in humans. its certainly not good for them and most are on the verge of laminitis. this is my farriers pet subject. he can rant on for hours about fat show horses coz he's seen many have to be PTS coz they have developed laminitis. i personally think its a barbaric practise and showing needs a shake up and woken up the the fact that fat is NOT show condition. having said that, watching the show pony/SHP/first ridden classes at the Royal Highland the majority of ponies weren't too overweight. but you only have to open up H&H to the show reports to see some that look like they can barely waddle :(

[Funky MeerKAT]

I know!! Isn't is gross!! The fatty cresty necks and rolly cellulite bums - discusting!! Some of the poor horses can hardly move their back legs they are so fat!!

Its a very weird fashion too, showing is a bit like modeling, but models are the opposite - super slim. Why is it that showies want such fat horses?

I personally like my horses to be a little lean, but then it depends on the type of horse. But especally my 2yo filly, I like her to be a bit lean, I don't want any extra stress on growing joints, bones etc. But she still gets all the nuitrients she needs, just not the fat.

[Mehitabel]

there is a difference between show condition and fat. not all prodcuers can see it, and neither can all judges, but it is there.
this is petal last week - do you think she is fat? i can feel all her ribs. to me, she's in show condition - i don't want her any thinner or any fatter. she doesn't wobble anywhere and that was in a ridden class (doing the inhand bit after the individual show) in that heat the other weekend, the 19th june. no sweat anywhere except under her saddle. yes, there were fatties in there, there were also those in proper show condition - well covered and bulk built up with muscle.
http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/show3.jpg

she does look like she has a bit of a belly stood there inhand, but as you can see from the ridden pic, when she rounds her back it lifts and disappears - the line behind my foot is the edge of her sixpack.
http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/nicetrotleft.jpg

yes, some show animals are lardbuckets. not all of them are, it's not desired, and there is considerable effort being made in several showing societies to get people to stop presenting wobbly cellulitey animals. *please* don't everyone start on about how showing is cruel and all show animals are overfed. it's just not the case, any more than any of the many stereotypes about other disciplines.

[shandy84]

No Mehitabel Petal looks like a toned athlete.

This picture is of a 12.2 gelding this is the sort of animal that has been fed up to weight without the muscle IMHO as his bum is soo peachy!

I think showing is changing bit by bit and for the better healthy covered but not fat animals are more often in the ring now, a friend of mine judges locally and is very happy that there are less fat ones in line and always pulls a fat one in near the bottom and has a quiet word with the owners about his weight

[clicker]

Thanks for posting those pics Mehitabel!!
I have to admit I, actually knowing very little about showing, had the impression that show horses were kept on the fat side - really interesting to see how a belly can 'vanish' when working properly!!!
I'm sure that there are overweight horses being shown, and sometimes winning, but that appearances can be deceptive!!

Will certainly look more closely in the future!!

[JOJOBA]

I dont think showing is cruel at all, and neither of the horses who have been pictured are what I would call over weight - especially not yours Mehitabel.
My friend bought a 'show cob' that I used to ride for her. He had a HUGE neck and massive bum - his thighs were that big that when he lifted his tail you could see each side rubbing together as he moved. He was sold as a showing horse, fit and in regular work, and a consistant winner at shows.
She put him on a diet as if he'd stayed the weight he was he wouldnt have lasted much longer. He has now slimmed down remarkably - I went to see him recently and asked where he was when he was right in front of me! He is now lean and fit, and far from being a show cob he turned out to be a middleweight ID cross type - leggy, long and and a proper hunter type.
I think it's most noticable on the Hacks because they have such fine heads and legs - it's far harder to see on the cobby types and M&Ms.
I remember someone (was it Chev?) complaining that her filly was placed low in a show because it 'needed more condition' when it was at it's optimum weight. They said they were fed up of constantly propping up the bottom end of the line against the fatter ponies at the top end.

That's the kind of fat Im talking about!


xxx

[Mehitabel]

and the next show chev went to, the same pony won! it's some judges, not showing as a whole discipline.

[Cool Rider]

Click here to see a very fat pony hehehe (http://theloft-tackshop.com/media/FatBottomPony.jpg)

[chickflick1066]

Jo, do you have the link to the ad, I'm curious to see...

In our area I think we have the balance alright. No one lets their horses put weight on and most of them are in all day etc to stop any excess weight.....
then I turn up with my big bellied treasure I call Stumpy and everyones faces just drop!

They cant believe how fat she is!! I have ladies coming up to me and kindly spotting that my pony is indeed a fattie and I should count myself lucky she hasnt had laminitis...I appreciate they are just advising but it's hard work when I try explain how hard I am trying to shift her fat!

I understand judges are biased towards the chunkier types but I have only seen that in one case down here....

Sorry if that was irrelevant....

[hApPiNeSs]

now this is what i call fat. look where his neck is meant to be. its disgusting

http://www.shady-acres.com/susan/cs9bl.jpg

[hApPiNeSs]

ps, that ISNT HAPPY :eek:

[JOJOBA]

Chickflick - I dont have the ad sorry, it was in a real magazine, not the net.
I think it was HORSE or Your Horse, but I cant remember.


xxx

[Mehitabel]

a note on the word 'condition' as well - it doesn't necessarily mean fat. it can, and should, mean muscle.

compare the first pic of madam with this one, which was taken one spring, when she had had the entire winter off. she's not thin, but she is lacking bum and neck and her stomach is running up a bit light - if i were to have taken her to a show in that condition, i'd expect to be told she needed condition (and a wash!). it's then my choice whether to lard her up or to work her and build condition by muscle. (i'll link rather than inserting it in the post, since it's a bigger photo.)

http://historicalfact.com/~es/pony%20pictures/dirtypetal.JPG

[JOJOBA]

I just looked at a showing website and pulled off some pics of horses for sale in each category to see an overview.

Show Cob
http://www.showads.co.uk/photos/ellie1.jpg

Lead Rein / First Ridden
http://www.showads.co.uk/photos/stunningleadrein.jpg

Fell (gorgeous!)
http://www.showads.co.uk/photos/hesketwillow2.jpg


I wish I could find the advert for you to see.


xxx

[Mehitabel]

what do you think on the weights of the ones you posted pics of?

[JOJOBA]

Personally? None of those stand out to me as being especially overweight - especially not the Fell. The pony looks okay to me - and the cob probably looks a lot more weighty than it is because when they dont have feather their proportions look so different.
I have recently grown my cob's feather back because having his legs clipped made him look very fat on stubby little legs - feathers are like bootlegs, very flattering :p
But no I dont think any of those look unneccesarily fat - I just picked the first one to come up in each category of the sales pages.
None of them have your mare's musculature though!

xxx

[eventerbabe]

what do you think on the weights of the ones you posted pics of?
the fell looks in great condition, the other 2 are just plain fat, particularly the cob. BUT they certainly aren't as bad as some i've seen in H&H. having watched a first ridden class at the weekend, none of the ponies were anywhere near as fat as the FR jojoba has posted. they all actually looked quite sleek.

[Mehitabel]

see, i don't think the cob looks fat - they genuinely are that big, and with muscle on the neck and bum they are very bulky animals.

the tiddler could do with working a bit better to round the back and suck the belly in - it is reminiscent, to me, of the inhand pic i posted earlier. it's back looks a little dippy, and that accentuated the round bottom. but of course a rider that little may not have the expertise or leg muscle tpo push it on from behind. i think that engaging the back end and rounding up would improve the picture a lot, weight-wise.

[racipaci]

Sorry to go off topic but I do love Petal, Mehitabel, she's absolutley gorgeous :D

[Colorado Sunset]

see, i would say that LR pony is on the chubby side, although the cob doesnt look as bad to me. Cobs are meant to be heavy built, but ponies...?

Now, the pony happiness posted.... how did they get that much weight on that tiny pony???? :eek: :eek:

Mehitabel- Petal is gorgeous btw, not fat at all :D

[Mehitabel]

thankyou both! :D i am very fond of her.

[chev]

and the next show chev went to, the same pony won! it's some judges, not showing as a whole discipline.

Absolutely. Some judges will put fat ponies higher up the line - but some won't. After the first two shows with Tia I have to admit I was feeling pretty disheartened - third show changed my mind. Not because we won - but because the judge was plainly marking overweight animals down, in all classes.

My problems are specific to youngstock too - there there is more of a fat v fit problem, because it's very easy to disguise a slower maturing two year old with fat - and muscling them up is no joke. It takes a lot of work - strapping and walking out in hand. But it still doesn't follow that the judge will always mark you up for having a fat pony - the trick is finding the ones who don't! ;)

Plus.... if all the ponies shown in a class are fat, there's no choice but to place fat animals high up. That then leads to the owners cheerfully being able to say that this pony has won blah and blah and blah.... perhaps if exhibitors were a bit more responsible about their animals' weight, that wouldn't be the case so often.

That is what the bottom line is - whether owners and producers are prepared to show fit horses and not feed them into an early grave. That is how you change it - not by moaning about the judges!

And Petal is just gorgeous..... :D

[Pink's lady]

This is my absolute pet hate! grrrr :mad:

I've had a lot experience asessing weights and conditions - it's a very important part of my course and it's examined on. So I know when a horse is fat and am always on the look out. I put so much effort into trying to keep my lot skinny and I can't beleive some people DELIBERATLY make their horses fat :mad:

The number of fat horses you see is sickening. There as so many out there that, if they were as thin as they were fat, their owners would be done for cruelty.

I prefer to see horses a little on the lean side, especially if they're natural good-doers. And those that 'condition' (aka 'fatten') their horses for showing should be shot. I know there as many people who correctly fitten to condition, but there's also a huge number who just fatten.

There's a lovely cob in my area who wins everything. He is good at dressage, jumping and showing and extremely fit. But he is disgustily obese. It makes me so sad to see. He's obviosly a heavy cob anyway (lot of leg bone) but I'd guess he's carrying over 200kg too much. On a condition score of 1-5, I'd put him at the full 5. And whats even sadder is that his owner deliberatly keeps him like that. :(

I was at the Royal Highland on Thursday when they had the ridden hunters and, out of the 7 or 8 in the class, 6 were fat, 3 of them obese. :(


The girl at my stables used to show at top level before she got into dressage but she's one of these fat not fit people. I was horfified when she said I should 'fatten Pink up' (exact words :mad: ) for cob classes. Especially when I'd worked so hard to get her skinny and fit. EVeryone else commented on how nice she was looking at the time, all toned and muscled.

There was an paper out a while ago about the difference over the years in showing conditions. The picture of the winner of the hunters in 1950's (or whenever) was a good condition score (i.e a lot) thinner than the 2000 winner. There's no way the 2000 horse could manage a days hunting - it was just too overweight. Unfortunatly I can't find the comparision pictures.

grr now I've got all worked up - I really think deliberatly fatting you're horses for showing should be punishable by law! :mad:

[Bebe]

prefer to see horses a little on the lean side, especially if they're natural good-doers

Me too. This year I've gone all out to try and keep Bebe slim and it's pretty hard work in comparison to chucking her in the field 24/7 and letting her get porky. She's coming in overnight still which I find difficult simply because I feel she ought to be outside, she doesn't actually seem to care as long as her snackball is full and she has hay (which is rationed though she's not eating much whilst in anyway). I'm also working her 6 days a week for as long as I have time and even our schooling sessions are up to an hour each now and pretty intense.

It's working, she's the slimmest she's ever been at this time of year before but it's definitely more work for me and I suspect this is why so many horses are fat, because of the work needed to keep them slim.

[hApPiNeSs]

now, you see, that type of 'its cruel to let your horse get fat' talk really gets me.

Happy is fat. I'll admit it. a LOT of ponies i know are fat.

i dont think im cruel. i just dont have all the facilitys to keep her looking like a lean mean happy machine :D

not all owners of fat ponies want them to be fat. Its incredibly hard to keep a good-doer 'slightly underweight.' im sure most of you know.

if i went to a show im sure i would get a lot of bitchy comments from people (inclduding NR's) about letting my horse get fat and how i am cruel. not the case :(

[chev]

happiness - I can relate to that. May wears a muzzle 24/7 and is still carrying more weight than I'd like. Ribs can be felt if you press but she has lumps of fat on her crest. That's why tomorrow she's off to live with Zingy... who does have the facilities to manage her weight better. :(

But it's honestly still possible to get the weight off - over winter, May gets nothing more than grass and a mineral lick and comes out of it looking better. If she could be worked, she'd also be exercising a lot more - and would probably look a lot leaner altogether.

Allowing ponies to get fat does border on cruel - they can develop insulin resistance, and related problems, and laminitis is a huge risk. Laminitis can kill or cripple - to allow a pony to develop it, whatever your facilities... I dunno. It is difficult - but if we choose to keep them, we should also make sure we can do that healthily.

Not getting at you, or anyone else in that situation - like I said, I've struggled for years with May.

[hApPiNeSs]

its not that easy. i dont have control over the care of happy.

[eventerbabe]

now, you see, that type of 'its cruel to let your horse get fat' talk really gets me.
Happy is fat. I'll admit it. a LOT of ponies i know are fat.
i dont think im cruel. i just dont have all the facilitys to keep her looking like a lean mean happy machine :D
not all owners of fat ponies want them to be fat. Its incredibly hard to keep a good-doer 'slightly underweight.' im sure most of you know.

completely understand where you are coming from happiness. i have one lean pony, and one pretty tubby horse!! i don't like to see overweight horses, but natives will always be a bit on the tubby side in my experience. what i hate is grossly obese show animals. its a problem up here. my vet has PTS many show animals which have been pumped full of feed and then gone down with horiffic laminitis :mad: i'm the first to stick up my hand and say my horse is tubby, but he's in overnight, on minimal feed and hay and ridden as much as i can. as my farrier says "you could paint the stable green and that horse would put on weight!". its hard keeping them as lean as you'd like when you work full time and have irregular hours like i do.

[Glider]

People are asking why showing favours fatter horses, and it's because it can be used to hide conformation faults. A a tummy can give the illusion of the horse being deeper through and having a shorter back, while a crest can give the illusion of a better top line. This said, even though I show to a high standard I hate to see really overweight animals and judges should be able to see through it and assess the true conformation.

My cob is overweight at the moment, but only has 2 sections of soaked hay and 7 hours in a poor field a day plus a handful of mix to put suplements in (he's 15.1hh), he is also worked properly 4-6 times a week. Some of us really try to get our horses less fatty (even for the show ring!) but it can be a hard task.

[chickflick1066]

i dont think im cruel. i just dont have all the facilitys to keep her looking like a lean mean happy machine :D not all owners of fat ponies want them to be fat. Its incredibly hard to keep a good-doer 'slightly underweight.' im sure most of you know.if i went to a show im sure i would get a lot of bitchy comments from people (inclduding NR's) about letting my horse get fat and how i am cruel. not the case :(
Happiness - that's exactly what I feel like. And its harder now shedding her weight cos she hasnt been ridden for nearly 3 weeks.

[chev]

its not that easy. i dont have control over the care of happy.

I feel for you happiness. It's a tough situation. :(

To be honest though it's not the owners of tubby natives who are struggling to contol their ponies' weight that I'd class as cruel - it's people who knowingly pile the pounds on and fatten them up for the showring. That's cruel - not those of us who are stuck with ponies whose metabolisms go into hibernation whenever you mention diet...

[shandy84]

I can completely sympathise Shandy is looking very porky at the moment even though she is on scrub grazing with Bramble of 1 acre and no hard feed or hay in sight, she was in the sand school on rationed hay and still managed to get fatter (I have no idea why!!)

The funny thing is Bramble who being native should be typically a good dooer has stayed nice and slim this summer so far and at the moment looks truly like the immature three year old she is.

I wouldn't say it is cruel if your pony is fat if you are pulling out all the stops to slim them up, it's the people who purposely overfeed or those who say it's too hot to ride so don't ride all summer and watch their ponies get fatter and fatter that I believe are cruel, we keep ponies unnaturally well and so need to help keep them healthy - some are easier to help than others :p

[cosmic_angel_12]

well my new pony pepsi has won quite a lot of showing classes but then was left for a while so has a grass belly. shes fat but it just makes her look even sweeter. the muscle is there, just needs beefing up a bit. shes on a diet now, shes just having grass, hay in the field and alfa-a lite! shes never had laminitis (touchwood) to mine, the last owners n the vets knowledge! i'll try and put some pictures up bt they never work! i will be taking her to a show on sunday, but by no means entering her as a weighty show pony, 1. because its a local show and 2. because shes on a diet and i'd like her to be thinner! hope it makes sense!

[LindaAd]

now this is what i call fat. look where his neck is meant to be. its disgusting

http://www.shady-acres.com/susan/cs9bl.jpg


I agree, the pony is much too fat. But if his neck was where you've drawn the lines, he'd be dead!

Linda

[LindaAd]

see, i don't think the cob looks fat - they genuinely are that big, and with muscle on the neck and bum they are very bulky animals.

.

I agree - if you look at the line of his belly it's quite flat. It's hard to tell from that picture if he's carrying too much weight on his bum or his neck - his neck is thick but it's hard to tell if it's excessively cresty and he has a big head too.

The Friesian looks fine to me.

Linda

[eventerbabe]

I agree, the pony is much too fat. But if his neck was where you've drawn the lines, he'd be dead!

why???? i have a sec D and her neck is incredibly thin like what happiness has drawn on the piccie and she was alive and kicking at 7am this morning! ;) that little pony has a gigantic crest and i'd be seriously worried if i were his owner.

[Kanuma]

IMO its not the top line of the pic that would make it dead, its the bottom line youve drawn, you are cutting of some of the shoulder that is not fat and that would give it a very very upright shoulder. My friend has a welsh A and i can honestly say that even the super fit and very lean welshies tend to have big crests on them!

[manfa1]

i used to show cobs and there is definatly a difference between fat and show quality, the most important thing is that the horse looks in proportion, and has some muscle and not just fat. when working the horse should have a visible line on its stomach which is muscle even if the horse may look fat just standing still

[hApPiNeSs]

i didnt draw the lines. :D found it on a feeding website.

but you get the idea... ;)

[Greta]

I saw the same thing happen at a show here in SA. There was a little Welsh stallion with AMPLE roundings-well-crested neck and an "apple bottom", who came second due to "not having enough flesh on him" I was OUTRAGED!!!!! :mad: :eek: :mad: :eek: :cool:

[winterbalto]

I don't understand how it can be so hard to see that some horses are wayyy too fat! People seem to have this problem with all animals though! People are constantly overfeeding their cats, dogs and even pet rats! This subject is a MAJOR pet peeve of mine. I always feed all my animals with meals instead of just being lazy leaving out food. People have to start realizing that animals can overeat just like people and that in the wild they wouldn't have access to so much food. Has anyone ever seen a wild horse? They are skin and bones and survive on nothing! So when we get them and they have access to grass, hay and feed all day we have to counter it with more work!

Ok so some animals it's easier to tell than others when they're overweight. I think horses are one of the animals where it's harder to tell. One time at my barn I was talking to a lady about a horse that was new. I told her how they were trying to condition him because he wasn't taken care of too well and just left out in the field at the last place. She looked at him and said "Ya, he does look a bit skinny" Actually, he was too fat! But she was not a horsey person and I expect far better judgement from a judge that is supposed to be more of an expert!

By the way, is liking overweight horses in shows just a cob and pony thing? How about when quarter horses or thouroghbreds are shown? Is it the same problem? I don't think it's a big problem here in the US but I haven't been to too many shows.

~Nicole

[JOJOBA]

I just thought Id show you some pics of my horse and his changing shape to illustrate that I know it's difficult to keep the right weight!
Hector tends to be a great big lump in the summer (let a friend ride him today and watched in horror as he carted his massive belly round) and drop weight horribly in the winter. We keep him in with lots of haylege, increase his food and rug him, but he still loses a huge amount.
This is him a couple of months ago, in his 'transition' phase from winter to summer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/bodyshot.bmp

This is him a couple of summers ago in the fat summer phase - he's currently fatter than this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/summerhec1.jpg

This is the summer to winter phase
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/blue.jpg

This is him last November - in the middle of our desperate attempts to keep his weight on. He stayed pretty well this year so I was happy - he looks ok I think.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/halt.jpg

Oh and here's about 6months from when I bought him, starving and neglected from a field. Some people have told me he was better in this picture than in my new ones :mad:. I hope not.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/jojobapics/oldpc1.jpg

Unfortunately dipped backs like his always accentuate a bigger tummy, or make a normal tummy look bigger.

He's 15.1hh, friesian-y fell-y dales-y welshie type :p.
So you can see I do keep him a tad fat but he only has a handful of mix and some chop in the summer, and grass. He's worked about an hour a day by me, plus regular hacking, lunging and groundwork.
It's hard I know, I wasnt suggesting it isnt!


xxx

[hApPiNeSs]

OK, this is Happy. I am aware of her weight problem, im lucky she hasnt got a crest. She is on a STRICT diet. However, I think her butt looks worse becasue shes resting her foot. its not that big, honest. Also, she doesnt have a dip running down her back and rump - its flat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/happy_the_horse/Happy%20General%20Pics/Hap1.jpg

[chev]

You wanna see fat?? This is May. Who wears this muzzle all day and all night, to restrict her intake. She's lunged or long-reined daily, and still looks like this. Believe me, I know what it's like to try and manage ponies that live on the smell of grass. :( I wouldn't show her like this though - and yet there are people who will feed a pony up to look like this (and worse) just so they can show. :mad:

[Kanuma]

sometimes ponies can look very fat whilst actualy being on the slim side!
harvey is a prime example of this! at the m oment he has a huge crest and an apple bum, but you can see his ribs (not just feel but actualy see!!) we think the crest is because he was gelded very late but ive got no explinations for the bum!
also a friends showcob is very very fit, it does one day events and barely breaks a sweat! yet it has a huge crest and apple bum as well! she has treid very very hard to get rid of that crest but even when the cob is underweight (ribs showing etc) the crest remains as does the shape of the bum!

[horseygal90]

Not strictly related - We were told 5 years ago, that my cats (then 3) were too underwieght, and we should leave them ad-lib feed. We changed vets a little later (the new one was cheaper) and got told that our cats were now addicted to the food we'd been giving them, and were overweight. We know feed them once in the morning (half a small bowl full) and then that's it. They yowl at us (we think this may be the addicted part) but we aren't allowed to give them any more - And they haven't dropped any wieght what-so-ever! If they were partically unactive, I'd understand but these cats spend their days running through our house/garden.

Sorry, just had to put it. (Not aimed at anyone in particular! It's just so annoying... Too many different vets! :rolleyes: )

The fell and cob look ok - It's the show pony that looks overwieght to me.

[jUmPingIsLifE]

i dont think people who keep their ponies to fat are really cruel, i think they are probably just ignorant.

the lady that runs the rescue up here like her horses plump, she truley doesn't feel they are to fat at all but they are FAT some of them discustingly fat but she would TRULEY feel that if they lost even one pound they would be way to skinny. she doesn't like to see one bone, not a hip or a rib and on some horses its to hard to just get rid of the hip (AUTUMN! he was SOOOO fat when we got him!) im talking he probably lost over 100lbs. there are horses at the barn where my mom works that could loose even 200bls, that horse only gets the smallest of handfulls of grain though and thats all my mom could do she would get fired for putting a muzzle (its sooo inhumane according to her boss) so that the horse couldn't munch on grass. but i wouldn't call the lady cruel, she is just completly oblivious to the fact her animals are FAT :(

edit:unless you are the show people who make their ponies too fat and they know that and still do it so they can 'win'
i cant believe that a fat ponie would be placed higher then a truley fit pony at a great weight

[Kanuma]

this is harvey, he has a hernia so his tummy makes him look fatter due to the lump in it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/kanuma/harvey/Copyofharvey.bmp

this is harvey at his slimmest!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/kanuma/harvey/lloc05-09-04020.jpg

[JOJOBA]

the lady that runs the rescue up here like her horses plump, she truley doesn't feel they are to fat at all but they are FAT some of them discustingly fat but she would TRULEY feel that if they lost even one pound they would be way to skinny.
I can relate to this. Hector was so thin when I got him that I like to see him a little on the chubby side.

xxx

[Torny]

Gosh, So many people who feel strongly against Fat Horses1 I thought I was the only one who worreid about Fat ! :cool:

I have a Lovely Middleweight Irish Cob and from the moment I got her I was determined to keep her toned and Proper weighted ! I wanted to prove that COBS do not have to be FAT ! I have met and ridden so many Rounded cobs in the past that I actually thought that was how they were built. I later learned that they are actually just FAT !

Heres a pic of my mare earlier this year ! Not fat on thsi cob ! lol :p

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53243

[mad mare1]

I know how you are feeling, I have an arab, who is an exceptionally good doer, and would gain weight on fresh air!! Even though she is 19 years old, she is still chubby, even in winter, and on a strict diet, and with two-three hours work per day!!! She is a Crabbet bred arabian, so she is a stocky little thing, standing 14.2hh, and I keep getting asked, 1) Are you sure she is that old?, and 2) are you sure she is pure arab, not part welsh cob!!! And yes, she is that stocky!!! Befroe I bought her, she was a broodmare, and for the 18 months prior to me buying her, she was in a field, either pregnant, or nursing her foal. She was so big when she arrived on my yard that she was expecting again, and the birth was overdue! I now have her slimmed down to an acceptable level, but she is still "too fat" for arab judges!!!

[Caz n Drummer]

I work on a top showing yard....we strap to get muscle tone on the horses...all the horses are well conditioned but none are fat....they need to be able to move and keep going in the ring...a fat horse will not cope with the demands of the day...travelling and showing.....it all takes strain on them...their legs will blow up for days coz of the extra strain.....its not worth it in the long run to have a fat horse...it only brings short term gains and the horses end up spoilt after a season.

[Slewgal]

By the way, is liking overweight horses in shows just a cob and pony thing? How about when quarter horses or thouroghbreds are shown? Is it the same problem? I don't think it's a big problem here in the US but I haven't been to too many shows.

~Nicole

I was wondering the same thing. I never see overwieght horses at shows. Of course most are tb's which are next to impossible to get fat (unless there a big lazy stallion:P).
Most of the ponies at shows are very thin and sleek. Then again most of our pony breeds are naturally more dainty than the English pony's.

I think Pal's a good size, if not a little chubby.
http://www.finalturnsites.com/gallery/album161/MVC_962F

Dar was just plain fat, but she's lost almost 200lbs? and needs to lose more, I don't have any recent pictures of her though.
http://www.finalturnsites.com/gallery/album149/MVC_088F

[Wally]

My absolute hate is over weight Shetlands. (well one of them anyway! ;) )
There is one that has just been brought up to Shetland from south and I was speaking to his old owner, a show pony producer, not performance pony. She asked how he was and I told her he looked happy ehough but was a bit miffed as there were mares over the road from him so he'd been galloping about a lot. "OH NO!" she said, he'll run all his weight off for the show season! Yeah, right, maybe if he never ate another blade of grass and galloped all day and all night for a year :D

I have performance ponies who need to be fit, not fat. When I was showing private driving and endurance at the sme time the driving judge said my horses were too thin, but after the 7 mle drive they were the only ones ready to do it again.

[JOJOBA]

For what you were saying about differences in weight between countries I think it may be partly the breeds we show and perhaps just varying trends between countries?
I know, for instance, that in Russia the trend is for the horses to be very thin, with not a lot of topline (correct me if Im wrong). I believe most Russian breeds are fine horses.
Our native breeds are great big hairy chunky things, so that's perhaps why we show them on the heavy side.
In the US you seem to have breeds like the quarter horse and tb, which are middleweight to lightweight, so just need to be of an average weight?

I suppose it depends which characteristic you are trying to inhance - crests, rounded bottoms, or lean athleticism etc.

Interesting topic actually!


xxx

[JOJOBA]

For instance:
Akhal Tekes:

http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/images/atdres.jpg
http://www.chez.com/kalisha/akal_teke.jpg

Welshie D (stallion with a truly terrifying neck!):

http://www.welshcob.co.uk/thorneyside/images/ttheboss1.JPG

Dartmoor Pony:

http://www.agraria.org/equini/dartmoor.jpg

Quarter horse:

http://www.chez.com/kalisha/quarter_horse_isabelle.jpg

Saddlebred:

http://www.hevosmaailma.net/Sivuston_valokuvat/USA/Saddler/harlem_globemaster.jpg


I just picked a couple of breeds at random from the countries I mentioned. I also looked at the Don and Budyonny but couldnt find any great pics.

xxx

[Keket]

By the way, is liking overweight horses in shows just a cob and pony thing? How about when quarter horses or thouroghbreds are shown? Is it the same problem? I don't think it's a big problem here in the US but I haven't been to too many shows.

I don't know much about Thoroughbreds, but I do know Quarter Horses. Any fat Quarter Horses won't win any shows. Quarter Horse champions are always super muscular.

Stallion named Zippo Can Do
http://www.zippocando.com/zippo_can_do_front.jpg

Stallion named Te Coolest
http://parkerfarms.com/images/tecoolest/profilesm.jpg

Mare named Elite Cinderella
http://www.lz-westerntraining.de/LZimages/Cindy1.jpg

Mare named Par T Royal Time
http://www.doublediamondarabians.com/reproduction/mares/pix/Par-T-Royal-time-42.jpg

I currently ride a former-champion, and she's very built up. Veins, muscles and everything!

[swerve]

I was showing a two year old sporthorse last season, and some of the horses being presented even as babies were grossly overweight. There was a colt in my classes who was especially fat, his joints were huge and oddly shaped, his hooves had clearly visible rings of growth, massive crest (on a warmblood TB cross!?) and dimply butt, no gap between his thighs, and he was near unmanageable(which is probably to do with his training a bit too). His gut moved at totally different times to the rest of his body and he looked miserable. It wasn't pretty, yet he was winning :eek: Don't tell me that doesn't encourage others to over-feed their horses :(

[mad mare1]

I think that the current trend of showing fat ponies and horses stems from ignorance of "condition" and "weight" . If a pony is in good condition, then it will be able to do the work requested of it without any problem. Whereas a fat pony will find the work hard, and will be feeling the after effects for days afterwards. A yearling, for example, has growth spurts, and is uneven at the best of times, so they need extra feeding, in the correct amounts, to provide the fuel for these. An 8 yr old, on the same kind of diet, will, invariably, become obese. I think people should really take the time to consider what they are doing to their horses by feeding them build up mixes when they aren't needed, and ask for advice if they are not familiar, or if they have a horse with feeding problems, or, if necessary, get the advice of a vet or equine nutritionist. A fat young pony will only have so long a useful life, and then complications will set in, such as laminitis, colic problems etc, whereas if a young pony/horse is fed correctly, and not beefed up for showing, it can have a useful life throughout. I also think that it is partly the fault of the judges who encourage this behaviour by consistently placin fat animals above those in true working fitness.

Apologies for the essay,but it annoys me!!!