Very pushy horse when exiting paddock (tasty grass in reach)

[Scarlett 001]

Skeeter and I have a problem upon exiting his paddock. There is a huge, oh-so-delicious, inviting bank of grass right outside the gate in both directions. Upon exiting the paddock, I need to lock the gate back up - so I can't get a good enough grip on the lead rope to hold Skeeter steady. And with that yummy grass in his reach, I stand no chance of stopping him moving himself quite forcefully into position to eat the grass. He could end up hurting me as he is *extremely* pushy at the sight of grass. I am sure others at the barn can give me their tips/advice, and I can ask my instructor (I am likely not the first person to deal with this yummy-grass-outside-the-paddock issue), but thought I would see what suggestions you all have.

By the way, I want to emphasize that Skeeter is not just gently heading to the grass. He is being very pushy and very strong about it. Suggestions?

[Funky MeerKAT]

I know just what you mean!! When you get him thru the gate turn him around straight away so his head is facing the gate, if he is on a mission you may have to really yank on his head and swing the rope at his bum, hit him really hard with it if you need to, you have to get his attention. It may be helpful to take a small treat with you, mint or carrot or something, so that once you have him turned around and focusing on you, he can have a reward. If you have to take a whip with you do that as well so that you can swing his bum round with it if need be, get really forcefull with him at this stage so that he has to listen to you. When you lead him away from the gate keep a good hold of his head and keep the whip on his bum as a warning.

Another option is to get rid of the grass!! But is better to train the horse.

[Eli_Jay]

Cheque had that problem at his last stable :rolleyes: generally he's pretty good though, he's very willing on the ground (when he's not fired up over something!)
I learnt to do gates up one-handed so i could still have one hand focussed on the job of holding onto cheque. Maybe you could try that?
I also rewarded him with the grass when he was patient and he soon picked up that it was better to wait for a couple of seconds than go for it straight away and get in trouble and *sniffle* no grass!

[KarinUS]

Teach him to eat grass?
Can you get a helper? Have somebody else focus on closing the gate so you can completely focus on teaching Skeeter to eat grass. :)
We have taught our horses the 'graze' command for when we go on trail rides. Of course it's no fun to have your reins yanked out of your hands so your horse can eat some yummy grass. If they yank, we don't stop but rather drive them on. But they do get to eat, if we offer. We ask them to stop and stand quietly. If they do stand nicely without head slinging or diving we tell them 'graze' and give them the reins. When we want to move on we give them a half-halt and say 'ready' and then ask them to move on.
This system has worked for us pretty well. The convenient part is that you have your reward already there. No need to carry treats and carrots.
If they behave they get what they want. If they are giving us a hard time, then they dont get any grass.

[chewitmonster]

Sounds frustrating. We also invite the horse to eat only when we allow them as Silver was trying to munch all the time when bringing in. He tries it on still but pretty much knows until I stop and invite him to eat he's not allowed!

All the best

[kedwards]

You've got some great suggestions.

The only thing I'd add, is that you may find it useful to take him in with a shank lead for a few times until he's learned what is expected. If he's pulling away from you to the point where you can't stop him, it can create a potentially dangerous situation. A chain will keep you safer and enable you to stop him so that he can learn the routine.

[Scarlett 001]

I am afraid that a one-handed gate closure is almost impossible for this gate, and even if I have one hand to focus on holding Skeeter, one hand would not be enough to control him. He is using *full* force to get to the grass. Right now, my only choice is to let the lead rope go longer - I'd get hurt or have my arm pulled out of the socket if I try to stop him. I can't stop him. It is that bad. He sees grass, and he ignores me.

kedwards, tell me in more detail about lead shanks and how they are used properly? I may need to use something like this a few times perhaps.

p.s. Skeeter has very good ground manners other than this. But when it comes to grass, he has a mind of his own. He always listens to me at other times.

[galadriel]

When a horse is hauling full strength, you can't begin to fight with just pulling back. To have a little more effectiveness, first let the lead go slack, then give it a yank. Do this a couple of times.

It's like anything else with horses; if you give them a solid pull, they can just lean against it and ignore it. If you pull-release-pull-release, you have a lot more leverage AND it's much harder for the horse to ignore.

This should be easier to handle while working with a gate, too. First stand by the gate with the gate lening on your leg or some such, held closed but with your hands free. Give him an opportunity to exhibit the behavior you wish to correct. Correct it. It may take several repetitions before he realizes that soemthing is new, and he can't just walk all over you as he has been doing. At some point you will actually have slack as he pulls back--this is the desirable state; you want him to leave slack in the line even when you're not actively correcting him.

Once he pauses to think it over ;) use that time to secure the gate. Be prepared to drop the latch entirely and start with the slack-yank again if he goes to take advantage of it. You may have to give up on closing the gate a couple of times before you end up with time to secure it; don't worry about it, just give it as much time as you need.

---

Once you've gotten past the immediate behavior issue, Karin's suggestion is a very good one. Teaching a horse to graze on command and ONLY on command can help in future instances of "I wanna eat the grass NOW!" Horses can learn that, in some situations, they are allowed to graze on the lead--but only when you invite them, and NOT at other times.

My three have all developed a bob of the head with which they ask permission to eat grass; it's quite cute. "I want it. Can I have it? Huh?" They don't get pushy, and if they can eat, I then will be obvious about inviting them to eat. And if they're working, and I ignore the head bob, then we move along with what we're doing without arguing over the nice juicy patch of grass.

[Scarlett 001]

When a horse is hauling full strength, you can't begin to fight with just pulling back. To have a little more effectiveness, first let the lead go slack, then give it a yank. Do this a couple of times.


How hard can you yank on the halter with the rope (his halter is leather but I do have a nylon one I can use)? I admit that I tend to be on the tentative side with disciplining animals (my cats get away with walking all over counters, but they can't do the damage to me that a horse can!), but I suppose I have to yank hard enough for him to notice - should it be hard enough to be a tiny bit unpleasant or just hard enough just for him to obviously feel it??? Should the force of the yank be downwards or towards me?

Stupid questions I am sure, but I know the nose is sensitive on one hand, and yet on the other hand I tend to underdo things sometimes....

[KarinUS]

If you feel uncomfortable with yanking perhaps driving him forward would be more your thing?
Rather than deal with the gate, have a friend handle the gate for you or if you are working on your own, you could lead him out and then work on the eat/don't eat in front of the paddock with the gate closed?
Stick a longe whip in your boot (left leg), lead with your right hand. If he stops to eat without being invited you can reach back with your longe whip in your left hand and tap him. Walk some more. Have him stand. If he pulls to eat, tap again. Walk some more. Try again. If he stands nicely, tell him to graze and reward by letting him eat.

What do you think about that?

[galadriel]

should it be hard enough to be a tiny bit unpleasant or just hard enough just for him to obviously feel it??? Should the force of the yank be downwards or towards me?

This is an "ask the horse" situation. The amount of pressure to use will vary with how the horse responds to it. If you find that you only need to give a tentative tug, then that's what you can use :)

You can start with lighter pressure, and work your way up, feeling it out as you go.

The best direction will probably also be dependant on what works best for you; I'd probably try towards you or upwards. If he's got his head down and lunging for grass, down might not help you much. The point of the tug is to 1) stop the forward movement, and 2) get him to balance out and stand still (and stop pulling). Back towards you or upwards will probably rock him back, but down would just be towards the grass he wants anyway...

And remember that the halter goes over the bridge of the nose; that's not quite as sensitive as the super-soft muzzle. You have to be doing something really excessive to hurt a horse with a halter--which can be done, but it usually takes a lot of forethought (ie, tying an unbreakable lead/halter to an unbreakable post, and spooking the horse). The amount of force that one person can put into a yank on a halter will probably not cause any damage to a horse's head.