I own a large beast

[Lorenemuah]

I am getting back into horse at the age of 38. I am not the aggressive rider I use to be in my youth. I own a 16.hh 7 year old andausian/percheron mare that is a witch. I have done all the ground work and she really does a great job in the round pen. She has been doing nicely at leg yields except when she has had enough. SHe swishes her tail when she is tired of you putting pressure or if you boot her, she then bucks out or crow hops or trieds to turn on you in the starting of a rare. My friend & I are trying to get her to canter and she starts bucking. I know the saddle is fine and she doesn't show any other signs of lameness. She is just a b*tchy mare. I notice she is starting to do refusal while riding in the arena. It's like when she decides she doesn't want to do any more and tries to rare or do little crow hops or flat out bucks. I have used a cavisan on her and still the same thing. So I know it's not because of too much pressure on her mouth.
Anyone have any suggestions??? I am a nice size women so could my weight be trowin gher off? but she is doing this to my friend as well. We both can't seem to figure this mare out. The vet says she is sound. The shoer is out evey 7 weeks. I just want the mare to be a good riding horse with knowing some lateral moves but she is not making this easy.

[ANN H]

Poor you. I too got back into riding at about that age and wished I hadn't left it so long! Could you get an instructor to assess her, either by riding her herself or watching you ride. It sounds as if she's just trying it on and may calm down when she realises she has to work. Perhaps lungeing rather than riding might help. My mare was similar, but not QUITE so bad when I got her 3 1/2 years ago, only her problem was her greenness - she just didn't know what I was asking!

Good luck.

[Stella2]

I may be off the mark here, so apologies if I am.

I wonder what this mare has done before. Lots of horses find it difficult to canter in an arena until they build the correct muscles to be strong in schooling on 'smallish' circles. She may be bucking because she feels unbalanced and lacks confidence in going forward. Also if she has done little schooling, she may not understand what you are asking of her and then when you give her a strong aid (a kick), she may feel confused and frustrated and reacts by behaving in a stroppy way.

Maybe try going back to basics with her and bringing her on step by step. So school movements at walk, then trot and no cantering in the school until she is balanced, happy and forward going in trot. When you introduce lateral work, give the aid and reward any slight movement she offers in the direction of the correct movement, keep asking, keep rewarding moves in the correct direction and then when you get the whole thing - make much of her! I also echo Ann in suggesting an instructor.

[ANN H]

Ditto Stella2 - My mare was a driving horse when I got her and didn't have a clue how to canter. We had to start from scratch!

[sidesaddlelady1]

Are you making your training sessions too long? Or spending too long on one thing. The old maxim "finish on a good effort" still holds true. 10-15 minutes five times a week is better than an hour once a week. Always reward her with a pat and verbal praise when she gets it right and never forget the power of a peppermint!

Do you vary training with hacking(riding out)? There are lots of schooling exercises that can be done while hacking for pleasure eg overtaking parked cars is a good opportunity to practise leg yields.

You must make it fun for her as well as you and if you are finding it a bind you can be sure she is too.

[Stella2]

Ditto Stella2 - My mare was a driving horse when I got her and didn't have a clue how to canter. We had to start from scratch!

Mine was very capable in hunting and hacking, but had no experience of schooling. She found it very difficult, didn't know what was expected of her, felt very unbalanced and it took her a long time for her to feel confident cantering on a circle :eek:

[Lorenemuah]

Hello, and thanks everyone. I do lunge her every time and she does great. She will canter till I ask her to stop. In the arena she is really good at first so thats when we decide to start at a canter then thats what she gets all b*tchy.
She came from a driving carriage place and had very little riding experience and thats all I have done with her for three months is the basics but as soon as we tried to make her canter is when this all took place. She really seems sensative to leg pressure. I know now why I have only owned 4 mares in my life time but I have grown attached to her. Off the ground she is an swesome mare and she drives like no other. The main reason i got her is cause how awesome she drove.
I was given a video of the previous owner riding her and they did canter and she seem to be doing fine. So I am not sure what her problem is. I am trying to find an instructor to come out and either ride her or watch me but having a hard time finding one. It's seems weird that I need to find someone for myself when for years thats all I did was give lessons. I normally am the agressive rider and wouldn't tolerate her crap but then again she is a very braud mare and I will be the first to admit I don't care to get bucked off, not at my age..
I saw on another site where someone suggest trying bareback and I just might try that today. This mare is not getting the best of me. She might have met her match and is going to canter one way or another. :-)
I am also goin to have a chiropractor (sp?) out as well. I just want to make sure she is completly sound. I know the vet says they didn't find any thing wrong but I don't want to rule out anything besides it could never hurt her to get a message.
Any other suggestions, please keep them coming.

Thank you
Lorene

[Stella2]

If she does what you are asking of her until you ask for canter, then she is probably not being "b*tchy , but rather she is trying to tell you something. Its your job to work out what she is saying! Nothing strange about having an instructor working with you, even the best top riders need their trainers as eyes on the ground!

I don't really see the process of riding as a contest between rider and horse, but more as a negotiation and discussion. So I never think in terms of a horse trying to "get the better" of a rider so I can't offer suggestions with respect to that.

[shirley]

Friend of ours on our livery yard bought an ex driving horse and he had hardly ever cantered in his life, so she had to go right back to basics with him and teach him to canter. Did this by introducing it on the lunge - getting him used to voice command for canter. Then when on him being lunged herself, so as she could give voice command to canter and add the leg aid. Also took him out on hacks with other steady type horses, and as they cantered he would too, again she used her voice aid and her leg aid. Gradually he has learnt to go off the leg aid only. Now is brilliant, canter very evenly and with good balance and rhythm, jumps as well. But it did take him time to get to be balanced in canter first and then with a rider on his back. She did more hacking out so as he could feel more relaxed than he was in the school / arena.
Take your time - go back to when she was not bucking etc and see what you have asked her to do after that, and see if that makes the difference. Even go right back to basics and methodically go forward again.
Also how old is she. If about 5 or 6 they are all proverbially female type dogs!!! Typical female teenage horse behaviour trying it on as well. Persevere and she will settle if it is her age.
Good luck

[Lorenemuah]

she is 7...and boy does she have a mind of her own. I think we will try the lunging with somone on her back first, see if she accepts that.
For the most part the mare is good but even when asked to trot at times she swishes her tail and will kick out. It's like when she decides she is done and doesn't want to be bothered. I have never had this problem but then in the past I didn't care if a horse bucked cause I would just make it do what I wanted no matter what but now I really don't want to fall off. In the past I would just get back on and start over but I know now if I fall now I won't be getting up as quickly.

[mayS]

If you're not confident in your own balance/skills... and since you have doubhts about what's causing her to act out, I'd enlist the help of a professional trainer/instructor.

I'm also in my 30s, just recently returning to riding. I also ride a very large horse (almost 18hh belgian) who was a former plow horse, so he was green to saddle.

Until you take lessons with a good instructor, you don't realise how much you don't know. :D Now that I've gotten some great lessons I have the balance and confidence I need. You don't want to keep pushing riding her, end up frustrated... and then you'll find yourself making excuses why you can't ride today and tomorrow and the next day. Next thing you know, you've stopped riding.

Lessons can also be alot of fun. Some of the exercises they have you do challenge you and are (in my opinion) interesting & enlightening.

[mayS]

(oops i somehow posted twice... sorry. how do you delete one of your own posts?)

[k8schmutz]

You mentioned shes very sensitive to leg pressure? Maybe you're closing your leg/your leg is swinging when you ask for canter and she is reacting badly to that? Especially if she is fine when being lunged. Also is she OK being lunged in canter with someone on her?

[sidesaddlelady1]

You describe your elf as an agressive rider - The best advice we could give you is to get off and stay off until you can learn to respect your horse - then she'll respect you.

[Stella2]

You describe your elf as an agressive rider - The best advice we could give you is to get off and stay off until you can learn to respect your horse - then she'll respect you.

I also wondered about you saying that she is sensitive to the leg, but also that she does not do as you ask even when you "kick". This makes me think perhaps you should review your approach!

[Zeno]

I hope the chiropractor works out for your mare, as I'm sure she's not *really* a witch, just desperate to tell you something.

Our yard uses a great 'back guy', whom they use for any horses or ponies who have been out of work for a time, new ones coming in or ones whose behaivour or way of going has changed/deteriorated. His input has been invaluable, as if there is a back problem there, he'll find it, and will invariably be able to set things right, or at least get things moving in the right direction. It can sometimes take a few visits to get a horse or pony back with all their wheels on the rails! He's also a dental technician, and it's amazing the number of new purchases who will arrive with a bad rep, but turn out to just have bad teeth!

You just never know how she might have injured herself: twisted her back getting up in the stable, hi-jinks in the field - the list is endless!

So give her the benefit of the doubt: I'm sure she's not trying to be bad :o