Topline Improvements???

[Perfect Pony]

Has anyone got any exercises or advice that i can do to magically tranform shadows lil pony neck into a proper 16.hh topine!!!
Ive read that simple exercises like getting him to stretch his neck around each side and between his legs help to develop the muscles so its easier for him to work on the bit!!! :D
Any advice guys, pls help he is driving me mad :D

[WandowenRedFx]

try putiing ** pony onto Pollard, its great, its cheap to, and also , if you deef your horse bread in small quantites it builts up topline.... at least it works for me

[Kanuma]

trot him uphill in his outline! youll find its one of the fastest ways to get topline on them

[michelle c]

exercise will help, but, i read somewere that if you feed horses from the ground all the time the topline stretches and looks more rounded!!! :D i have a 14.2 and she lives out mostly and has a lovely top line

[No_Angel]

My horse had a horrible neck until she was out most of the day and had her feed and hay off the floor, now she has the making of a topline

[Perfect Pony]

Shadow does live out for most of the year and he is always fed on the floor!!!
Even in his stable he has hay on the floor as he just pulls it out of the haynet and eats of the floor anyway!!!
he is exercised everyday!!!
I had a great schooling lesson with him last nite and after about 45 mins of arguing with him he softened, hes just likes to take the mickey and run round with his head in the air, although i do feel like i made a small bit of progress with him last nite, so tonite im going to do it again and hopefully it will work when im doing on my own!!! Ahhhhhh :D

[kirsty-chuk]

The thing you mentioned about getting your horse to bend his neck to each side and put his head between his legs is great! I use that on my horse, and lots of circles because she's got an annoying habit of setting her neck and bolting off across the school and skidding to a halt by the gate. You could always try the topline feed stuff, but I've never tried it so not sure if it works. Good luck! x

[Perfect Pony]

glad to hear someone else is doin the bendy neck things, its gunna cost me a bomb in mints!!! :D
Im doin lots of work in circles as this is what hes rubbish at, was doin it 4 ages last nite, now my legs hurt!! Im changing his bit over tonite tho as he did take the mickey with his happy mouth in!!!
Who is the topline stuff made by??
Thanx i may try it if i can find it!!! really need to crack on with his topline, iv let it slip over the last year!!! :D :o

[rache]

does your horse work in outline or do you want that to!?

[Perfect Pony]

i want that too, he is working better tho! :)

[cvb]

really he's only going to develop the topline if he's using it - so you do need him to be working well as well.

Its one of those rotten catch 22's - they are less likely to go well cos they don't have the muscle, and they don't have the muscle cos they don't go so well :rolleyes:

[Perfect Pony]

i know i think im stuck in that circle!!! dammit!!! he worked really well last nite after about 45 mins, its just he doesnt listen to me in the menage!!! He will work absolutly fantastic at a show when hes excited!!! grrrr :)

[cvb]

uhuh... i noticed this as you said

after about 45 mins of arguing with him he softened, hes just likes to take the mickey and run round with his head in the air, although i do feel like i made a small bit of progress with him last nite, so tonite im going to do it again and hopefully it will work when im doing on my own!!!

so..erm.. why argue for 45 mins ? Thats sounds like hard work and I'm not into hard work !
What was the progress you made (is it something you can do again) ?

I just came back from watching a clinic... one of the things that came up time and time again was that if we accept a certain behaviour, we're basically telling the horse its ok.

So - my challenge to you is what can you do to not let him run around, and not let him have his head in the air ?

e.g. is he better when you ask him to circle ? (settled ? softer ?)

This may sound a bit of a "bolshie" answer but I have been in your shoes and I know how much of a pain it is. Once you start moving the status quo in your favour, it seems to turn into a landslide and rapidly improve. But you just need that "key" to start the turn in your favour.

Thing is that I can probably suggest stuff - but its going to be hit and miss whether it works. Whereas I'll lay a bet that if you're already getting some good work, you probably know what will work ;) You just don't realise it yet !!

[Perfect Pony]

he just needs to relax and as soon as he 'chills out' and realises he wont win he softens and works perfectly, yes last nite i worked him on a small circle untill he worked well, i know hes only doing it to get out of work but he also knows he wont win, thats why he gives up, also i had his happy mouth in which was just too soft to school in at the mo, im resorting back to my dutch gag but i only ever have it on snaffleand top ring so its not strong but lets him know he cant be rude!!! :D Do u recomend any other bits to help!!! I used to use a myler but my riding instructor has that now!!! Hmmmmm
thanx for your advice

[cvb]

The dutch gag like that (1 rein) is just going to behave like a loose ring snaffle - what mouth piece does it have and what sort of mouth/cheek is the happy mouth ?

I have had very good experiences with loose ring french link. But to be hontest there was a whole range of bits being used at the clinic I watched and Mark just worked with them in whatever they had, and got softness in all. I think its because its how you use the bit that makes the big difference ;)

Mark did this exercise which I felt was a really good way to show how softness "wins" ;)

Get a friend - they stand opposite you and hold their arm out straight with a clenched fist - and make it strong - you ask them "don't let me move your arm"...

Now - see if you can move the arm. If you try and move it by strength, the other person finds it easier to resist and won't move much - plus you both get hot and bothered ! i.e. grab the hand in your hand and use force to move it

if, however, you go soft and say use the back of your hand to just "drift" their hand sideways, its really difficult for them to stop you !

So when he tries to "fight" you, redirect him but keep it soft. Don't lock in your shoulder, arm etc.

[Perfect Pony]

:) thanx for your help, he usually has a lose ring strtaight bar happy mouth and i swapped it last nite to the gag which is a jointed happymouth with roller, however didnt really see much differece, i will try my french link 2nite with him, i just feel like im stuck in a big circle that i cant get out of, however last nite he worked better in an outline after a while, i found that small circles helped to begin with and also if i dont focus on him, i put a bucket in the field and rode around that trying to keep the same distance away from it all the time, this worked (helped concerntration) also i think schooling wouyld be easier if i was blind so i could concerntrate on everything without looking at shadow, so i took up looking at the sky!!! It worked in helping me relax and think about what i was doing!! :D
Any more advice greatly appreciated :D
Thanx

[cvb]

Interesting - it may be that you have been working too much on "getting an outline" (my words not yours) and by adding a purpose it helped you and him be softer with each other ?

So this may be the way to go. "Soft" is the "how" not the "what" - after the Feb clinic I spent sessions doing walk-halt transitions, and setting a target for - say - 3 good ones in a row - and then move on to walk-trot, etc

It doesn't matter too much what the "job" is, as long as there is one !

[Perfect Pony]

yes i have an aim each time i school him, all i wanted yest was 3 'soft' circles on each rein where he was listening to what i wanted, once he had done that i praised him up with lots of mints and pats and he did it again perfect, i think i need bribery that always works!!!
Then in my next schooling session il aim a bit higher such as making the circle bigger and asking for a few more circles, a lil bit at a time seems to be working!! I still think i need to find a good schooling bit for him!!! :D
I am pleased with his response over the past few times, i have an overall target of a showing class at the end of the season so as long as iv got something to work towards i know il push myself as ive pushed with my jumping!!! thats perfect now so just need to improve the schooling which will in turn improve the show juming anyway!!! :)
He is a good lil hos really :)

[cvb]

OK - here's a circle game that may be new to you ;) Its adapted from something Bob Mayhew calls "snake trails"...

Start on a circle, as the horse goes soft for a few strides, change the rein onto another circle, i.e. you are never riding the full circle. Its not a figure 8, its a series of part circles linked together. if its was half circles it'd be a small serpentine !

This ups the anti slightly as you're asking him to stay soft and balanced through a change of rein :D

Remember to reward him as you have been if he gets good turns and stays soft :D

In trot or walk. (trots quite a nice one).

And another one - this one stolen from parelli ;) and is a clover leaf pattern.

Say you are in a dressage arena. Turn up from A (or C) and ride to X, turn right, turn right at fence (E or B) and half way back down the side, turn right across the school, turn right at fence, turn right at E (or B), turn right X, turn right at A/C, ride half way up to E/B and turn right, turn right at the fence, and back to A/C and start again !

i.e. its like a series of small squares or circles within a half school. Really gets you thinking - lay cones out if you need help. And do it both reins.

[Perfect Pony]

thanx, im still working the clover leaf one out but i think iv got it, iv been changing the rein a lot as soon as he is supple on the left rein as he is more resistant on the right so that neesd more work but he is better than when i start on that rein, thanx for all your help, do you recomend any supplements to help develop his neck muscles to help us, he has a very skinny tb neck!!!
actually he is just so petite being 7/8 tb and 1/8 pony!!! bless him :)
thanx uv been a great help with my schooling, feel free to keep adding more schooling tips and il let u know what works :D
i will have a soft supple horse soon!!!

[cvb]

I kind of struggle with the ideas of supplements for topline - how do they know where to go ;) A supplement may provide the horse with what he needs to build muscle, but he still needs to do the work to actually get the muscle.

The biggest thing to me is that everything you do needs to be with the right muscle at the back of your mind. So even when he's being led, the topline needs to be stretched and working, and the bottom of his neck soft.. and so on.