Hay is for horses - question for those who have 'em at home [Archive]

mayS

22nd Jul 2005, 02:35 AM

It's going to depend alot on where you live and when the hay season runs.

I'm fortunate... my neighbor owns a huge farm and I buy hay from him. He stores more than enough hay in his barn, I stopped by and got 10 bales a week from him, and he had enough to last me to spring. I just don't have a hay shed of my own, so I actually store it in my garage. :p

Price also goes up as supply drops in late winter. I pay the same price throughout the winter, but I know many places raise their hay prices to offset the cost of storing it up. If you can afford to buy it anytime and you don't want to build a hay shed, you can get by doing what I do.

Harry Hobbes

22nd Jul 2005, 04:11 AM

How far in advance do you start stocking hay in preperation for winter? At first cutting; out here that's usually first week of July. If there are additional cuttings, then stack them after those cuttings.
How much hay do you plan for to span the winter months? On the high side, plan to feed about 2% of body weight per day of roughage (hay) per horse; times two horses equals 40 lbs. per day, times 30 days equals 1200 lbs. per month times number of months that they cannot graze on pasture all day long. Add 10% for spoilage.

They'll need more hay in winter when it's cold to help them weather the severe cold, so you may have an occasional 10% increase per day when the temperature is below zero (Farenheit). (Roughage in their stomach is their primary heat source in winter.)

Twelve hundred pounds per month ought to be plenty for your two geldings. Four tons ought to last six months. Plan on feeding until the pasture grass is well established; probably early-mid May in New York.
How long can you store hay? Presuming you keep it dry it can store for at least a year.

If you stack it out of doors, stack each bale on edge, not on its face. Cover the top with a tarpaulin so that the snow on top of the stack doesn't melt down into the stack; don't cover the sides. And of course, if it's stacked on wet ground, the bottom layer will suffer a lot of mold and must be discarded (or fed to cattle).

Now is the time to buy what you need until next summer.

Best regards,
Harry

andreaB

22nd Jul 2005, 08:24 AM

now is good as long as you have somewhere suitable to store it (dry , airy ,ideally raised off the ground

if you buy off the field now it is often cheaper than buying stored later

i reckon on 200 bales for my 2 horses , they go out over winter during the day but usually come jan i'm feeding hay in the field

cvb

22nd Jul 2005, 08:35 AM

How far in advance do you start stocking hay in preperation for winter? How much hay do you plan for to span the winter months? How long can you store hay?

Thanks...

Its our first time so we're testing the waters.

Tootsie

We also live on a farm, and they graze cattle on our field in return for our hay :D

In the hay loft we normally have the remainder of last year's hay and this year's cut. So we would start with last years and then go on to "new" hay after a while (we always mix it for the change-over).

In fact this year, the 2004 hay was riddled with mice by the end of the winter so I think its all been dumped. And there is some 2003 left over, but our horses rejected it firmly in 2003 and 2004. So we'll go onto to 2005 hay when we start. Hopefully that will be late enough that it has matured a little.

We also have a nice option of both small and big bales. We normally have some small bales at the stable when they are in, but had a big bale in the spring (cos of the mice infestation in the small bales :rolleyes: ) and just pulled bits off that, which worked well as well. If Duds wasn't such a pig, it'd be nice to have a big bale feeder in the field and let them nosh it ad hoc. But he'd just stand there til he exploded :rolleyes:

Finally we have also taken to nabbing a big bale or two of oat straw, which we then feed in the field if they need a top up during the winter day cos of lousy weather.

Quantity has varied a lot - last winter it was possible to turn them out more on our bigger field area, so they had loads less hay. They simply weren't eating it up over night. And we used less oat straw as well.

eventerbabe

22nd Jul 2005, 08:47 AM

we don't stockpile, only have anough room to store 3, maybe 4 big round bales at a push. our hay supplier is a farmer who lives on site so all we do is pop a note through his door with money for however many bales we want and he delivers it within 24 hours :) in the winter, i think mine go through a round bale every 10 days, so thats about 3 a month. this includes hay for when inside at night and hay put out in the field during the day.

Mehitabel

22nd Jul 2005, 08:58 AM

over here, people are buying it now, as it's being cut.

angelfben

22nd Jul 2005, 09:03 AM

You can keep hay for a fair while, so long as you keep it dry you can still feed it for up to a year after it's been cut or even longer. All that happens is that as the hay ages it loses nutritional value, so when I'm trying to get some weight off a horse I get hold of the rubbishest hay I can and stuff them full of it - it gives them something to eat all day and provides them with plenty of fibre but there's hardly any nutrition in it for them to put weight on.

Always always always try and store hay on palletes where possible as hay stacked straight on the floor tends to go mouldy pretty sharpish, and the same goes for keeping it dry.

I don't have the room to stockpile hay really, at most I can store about 10 small square bales and that lasts them about a week in Winter! I'm trying to sort out some storage ready for this Winter though so that I can cut down buying hay to about once a month :)

Jessey

22nd Jul 2005, 09:16 AM

Generally speaking my 3 horses only get hay when they are in at night, they get 10-12 hours a day out and there is planty of grass on the pasture (poor quality but lots of it) so I normally get away without feeding hay in the pasture.

Last year for my 3 I brought about 90-100 small bales, the old boy wasn't really eating much (due to a lack of teeth he just kind of played with it :D ) so I would guess I used about 40 bales each for the other two but mine are only in from the end of november to the end of February.

I have found that some years they need more if the hay is not great quality and if we get a really cold or wet winter.

What I tend to do is buy as much now straight from the field as I have got room to store, our hay man has pleantly all year round but prices do go up once he has barn stored it.

I like to have some left by spring as I use it in the trailer and when we are at shows but also just in case a horse has to go on box rest over the summer months.

J x

helenc

22nd Jul 2005, 09:56 AM

I keep my horses at home too & I can fit probably 10 bales in my store room (ie a shed) I was going through it too quickly & the farmer was delivering me 10 bales every week - week 1/2 so I decided to get haylage instead so I could stack it outside on pallets.

There are plenty of places that do haylage around me & they always have some left at the end of the winter - I just order 4 big bales at once which lasts me 6-8 weeks.

I also have a stock of about 10 smaller haylage bales in case of emergencies which are stacked in the shed.

Tootsie4U

22nd Jul 2005, 12:49 PM

We've got appointments through the weekend to buy a total of 200 bales. (45 pound bales). We think we have enough room to store all that but I don't know if it'll get us through to next May (you are right Harry,- Mid May is about the time everything *starts* to dry out. We're sectioning off a smaller area of our grazing to be dedicated as a dry lot. We'll have to keep them in there in the spring because with our soil and with how the growing season is, they'll completely trash our paddocks. So, we'll be giving the grass time to establish).

Im not sure 200 bales will make it for the entire winter though. I've been supplementing them 2 large flakes per night while they're stabled and we went through 14 bales in 4 weeks this way and there is more than enough grass in the pasture right now. Granted, Bonfire's currently a blimp, but Fella needs it.

We've got the pallets, so we're all set with that.

Thanks for the tips!

helenc

22nd Jul 2005, 06:08 PM

Im not sure 200 bales will make it for the entire winter though.

See how you go over the next couple of months & then you can always get some more before the winter sets in

galadriel

22nd Jul 2005, 06:19 PM

We went through about a bale each day, but we did also still have a fair amount of grass on the ground. Not nice fresh grass, but no worse than hay :)

We're fortunate here; we have grass until late in fall, and the last cuttings are also fairly late. I'm hoping that perhaps by the last cuttings this year, I might be cleared to help load/unload hay. Then we could go pick it up out of fields for $1 off per bale. Otherwise, we'll be buying it from a family who bales hay off a HUGE farm down the road from us, and has enough to pretty much carry the whole region ;) through winter. Last year we bought a couple of weeks' worth at a time all winter long.

Incidentally, I lust after that farm. Mmmm. GORgeous. Every time we go by I have visions of galloping across the fields for hours at a time...or watching my horses playing in the wide open area. Okay, that was random.

jowyles

22nd Jul 2005, 10:22 PM

Best to buy hay early if u have storage as farmers barns often let the wet in, anybody need any hay in leics area pm me cus ive got about 700 bales to get rid of! My dad is cruel, 9 acres of grass, 8 acres of hay and NO HORSE! :(

Dizzy

22nd Jul 2005, 11:50 PM

We never feed this years hay, this year. From Sept/Oct to Jan/Feb we feed old hay (last years hay) then when we're on our last few bales we mix it with the new hay - then feed this years hay (which is then last years) :D

Harry Hobbes

23rd Jul 2005, 03:41 AM

...45 pound bales. Those are really tiny bales. Most U.S. "small bale" baling equipment produces 70-90 lb. bales. I hope you weighed three of them for a true average.

The Veterinary and feed books are all pretty consistent in telling you that (non-lactating, non-foaling) mature horses require about 1.5 to 1.75 percent of body weight in roughage (hay) per day for maintenance. So if you plan for 2 percent per day, you should have plenty with a little left for extraordinary events.

Or, use this as your guide:

"An upper daily intake of feeds that a 1,100-pound horse could realistically be expected to eat on a consistent basis was set at 22 pounds for horses from maintenance through moderate work; 26 pounds for endurance/race/heavy work." From Equine Supplements & Nutraceuticals: A Guide to Peak Health & Performance Through Nutrician, by Eleanor M. Kellon, VMD [Dr. Kellon is reporting the "very conservative" recommendations of the U.S. National Research Council's for feeding equines; and "feeds" refered to ALL types combined: hay and grains.]

Most (if not all) of the feed authorities will also advise that one should feed by weight of the feed, rather than feed by volume of the feed. So what does "...2 large flakes..." weigh? (The answer is found below...)
Im not sure 200 bales will make it for the entire winter though. So if the horses come off pasture end of October, and back on end of May, that's seven full months on hay feeding.

So lets run the numbers:

200 bales * 45 lbs. = 9000 lbs. (4 1/2 tons) This assumes you have tiny bales.

1050 lbs. (Bonfire) + 1150 lbs. (Fella) = 2200 lbs.
2200 lbs * 2% = 44 lbs. per day of hay (Keep in mind 2% is on the high-side.)

9000 lbs. / 44 lbs. = 204.6 days = 6.82 months

That's seven months of hay (with those tiny bales). If you want to be conservative buy five tons. That'll give you over eight months of hay. (You will also get a better deal if you purchase by the ton, rather than by the bale.)
I've been supplementing them 2 large flakes per night while they're stabled and we went through 14 bales in 4 weeks this way and there is more than enough grass in the pasture right now. Granted, Bonfire's currently a blimp
45 lbs. * 14 bales = 630 lbs.
630 lbs. / 30 days = 21 lbs. (This is 1/2 bale per day.)
21 lbs. / 2 horses =10.5 lbs. per horse per day.
10.5 lbs. / 1050 lbs. (Bonfire) = 1% Supplement by body weight per day.

If your horses are on pasture most of the day, then giving them 1% roughage supplement is really, really, really counter-productive. Regardless, Mr. Bonfire should go on a diet.
...but Fella needs it. It sure doesn't look it from the photos: he looks like he's right where he needs to be. Have you taped him for weight? And body scored him?

But nonetheless, if he's stalled separately, you can supplement him individually if he needs it; and Bonfire can go on a diet.

Best regards,
Harry

galadriel

23rd Jul 2005, 07:52 AM

Quick comment--
With the grass we grow here, 45 pounds is about typical for a good grass hay bale. The hay itself is just not very dense; even in large and tight bales, it's very lightweight. But then, this is Florida, and the whole darn state is made of sand...NOTHING grows well here...

Of the stuff we import from states with real dirt, 60-90 lb is typical. 'Course, we don't import grass hays :) We get enough of that here!

Tootsie4U

23rd Jul 2005, 01:13 PM

Yep, here too - 45 lb bales are the 'average' size. You can get the much larger ones (80ish pounds) but they're not easy to come by. And of course there are the even bigger round bales, but that'd just go to waste here. The farmers are telling me they're 45 pound bales, btw.

So if I followed that right Bonfire is currently getting the one percent PLUS the grass - so more than enough? It definately shows. However, they are out grazing and playing from 7 am to 9 pm every day. If I bring them in at 9, I hate to leave him with nothing in his stomach for ten hours. Im also giving him a handful (honest) of hay stretcher too - just because Im a softy. The strecher isnt doing anything, its just to content him while Fella gets his joint supplement.

Harry Hobbes

23rd Jul 2005, 02:30 PM

So if I followed that right Bonfire is currently getting the one percent PLUS the grass - so more than enough? It definately shows.
Yes. Bonfire's body condition is telling you that he's eating too much.

He does not need to visit MacDonalds each evening. He should be "high-speed, low-drag" rather than weighted down.
However, they are out grazing and playing from 7 am to 9 pm every day. So they're grazing 14 hours per day. Unless something is wrong with the grass (or there's a specific health issue with one of the horses), they don't need any hay.

For this amount of turn-out time, they have more than enough time to get their daily roughage requirements. If the grass itsn't in prime condition they'll just eat more of it during turn-out. Of course, grass has certain mineral deficiencies, but that is why one provides a mineral block or supplements in other forms. But with all of the calories Bonfire is getting, the supplements should be devoid of calories as much as possible.
I hate to leave him with nothing in his stomach for ten hours. Food from each feeding (the grazing) will be in his system for about 3 days.

Normally, the purpose of feeding is to solve the problem of providing adequate and appropriate nutrition to the horse on a daily basis. What problem is being solved by feeding him overnight (as well as all day long)?

Is Bonfire not getting enough nutrition? What does his body score say? (Reference page 113 of Storey's Guide to Feeding Horses.)

Side Note: If the underlying issue is that he demonstrates his annoyance that he doesn't get the same treats/feed/grain as Fella, he is merely being a horse and attempting to train you to do exactly for him that you do for Fella (if not more). This behavior has nothing to do with nutrition and everything to do with the pecking order. (There is also an aspect of "The Dominance Game" at work here: Who should determine how and when he gets fed; and who is best served by that determination?)

There's difference between animal husbantry and servitude.

Best regards,
Harry

galadriel

23rd Jul 2005, 05:17 PM

Food from each feeding (the grazing) will be in his system for about 3 days.

But none of it in any of the areas that relieve stomach acid. Those areas clear within about 5 or 6 hours--the stomach itself clears within about 15 minutes. The stomach acid production never turns off. Leaving horses without something to eat can cause large amounts of acid throughout the horse's digestive system, leading to ulcers.

What problem is being solved by feeding him overnight (as well as all day long)?

In addition to the possibility of ulcers in a horse which is not fed, Bon has demonstrated a tendency toward stall vices. Stall vices get worse when they're bored. Horses really aren't emotionally constructed to sit in a stall overnight with nothing to do.

I'd be more inclined to stick a grazing muzzle on him to restrict his intake during the day and keep giving him hay.

Tootsie4U

25th Jul 2005, 01:07 PM

My horse is a pig. If he has the opportunity, he'll eat until he explodes.

At his latest boarding establishment, the horses came in for the night around 4pm. They'd immediately be given 4-5 flakes (about half a 45 pound bale) and he'd consistently have that finished by 6 pm. Unless I gave him more, he'd have nothing else to eat until 6/7 am the next day. So, that makes 12 hours with nothing for him to eat or do. Would his stomach be conditioned to that sort of feeding - can such a thing happen?

Of course at that time he was being ridden 4/5 days a week. This spring when he wasn't being ridden and still getting the same amount of food, he began putting on the pounds - nothing horrible since his paddock is grazed all year with no rotation so didnt have very much grass in it. Since coming home and having access to our un-grazed grass, he's ballooned way out of proportion.

They are begining to graze down the paddocks - having eaten almost all of the really lush stuff and moving on to the less appetizing grasses, but he doesnt seem to be dropping the weight. We're going on 5 weeks now since they've been home and if I dont get this under control, I do fear founder.

KarinUS

25th Jul 2005, 01:33 PM

My horse is a pig. If he has the opportunity, he'll eat until he explodes.

But none of it in any of the areas that relieve stomach acid. Those areas clear within about 5 or 6 hours--the stomach itself clears within about 15 minutes. The stomach acid production never turns off. Leaving horses without something to eat can cause large amounts of acid throughout the horse's digestive system, leading to ulcers.

What kind of hay are you feeding?
Even grass hay can vary widely in its nutritional value.
We use about 30% coastal and only 5-10% Alfalfa. 60-65% of the hay we feed id considered 'filler hay' by the farmer who grows it. It's grown on an 'unimproved' pasture with native grass and forbs. It smells great and has such a variety in it. The horses love it. As far as making them gain lots of weight it wouldn't be the right kind of hay though. It keeps them busy and their stomachs happy. They always have some available. I never 'not' have something out for them to munch on.

I can store about 90 bales (the big ones) in the barn. We store them on home-made palletts to keep them off the ground. I don't stock up for winter per se. We just buy enough to stock the barn and then get more when we are down to 20 bales or so.

cvb

25th Jul 2005, 02:11 PM

Tootsie

They can eat some vast amount of grass in an hour (15lb or sommat scarey like that :eek: )

The really nice thing about them being at home is that you are not stuck with 4-5 flakes and then nothing (were they REALLY getting 20lb hay :eek: mind you, given what you said about the grass....)

Anyway - ours get a a little bit when they come in (with their dinner), this is around 4pm in the depths of winter. Their main hay is at 7pm. Then they get a top up at 10pm when we do last stables. In the morning I gave them a bit more on my way out, about an hour before their brekkie.

Duds will clear everything you give him. Fi eats fast but will leave it if she's had enough. Red just gets bored and tired with it if you overface him. They had such good grass last winter that I don't think they ended up with more than 12-14lb overnight.

Tootsie4U

25th Jul 2005, 02:14 PM

Its a Timothy grass mix. Absolutely no alfalfa - I wont even consider alfalfa hays. Its too rich for Bonfire.

We also picked up a wagon load on Saturday that is a mix something like what you mentioned,Karin. Its 'native' and seems to be from an unimproved field as well. (It has clover and small field flowers in it - not toxic buttercups or ragwort). Another load we picked up this weekend is pure grass hay, stalky.

Tootsie4U

25th Jul 2005, 02:20 PM

Yeah cvb, he was consuming about 15/20 lbs of hay in 2 hours. He ate it so fast, he'd be long done before the other horses were half way finished with theirs. He's very food obsessed.

I bring him in at night to 1) keep him from eating 24/7 because I know he will and 2) to give the pastures a break. We only have about 2.5 acres of pasture at the moment and if left out 24/7, I think they'd overgraze it and then I'd have an altogether different problem.

Bonfire is obviously getting more than he needs, Fella probably what he needs as he's filled out nicely since home (I think he was a bit underweight when we got him - just a tad). I just don't feel good about not giving them any hay/feed while in for the night. Im not doing well by Bonfire by giving him hay and by not giving him hay. Im not sure what to do. I dont like the idea of a grazing muzzle. I think I'll inconvenience myself and double his exercise before I try that.

cvb

25th Jul 2005, 02:38 PM

We have 7 acres - and mostly the horses are in paddocks in one corner. With two of them, 2 paddocks were really too much at certain times of the year. You'd have to restrict them to one for part of the day to stop the pig-impressions, and the other one would then get away from them. Adding Fi to the equation has changed that a bit (its amazing how much a 15.1 eats compared to 14.2 or 13.3 !). So we're about to add another paddock which will give us better rotation and the chance to rest the middle paddock (which tend to get used all year round as its the best access etc).

In the winter they get let out from the paddocks into the whole 7 acres, but again only for part of the day.

So we manage this issue by making sure one paddock at least has restricted grazing on it. It does make life more complicated as you have to be there to move them to and fro - but my folks are retired so have set it up as suits them.

When Duds had laminitis, he got shut in the sand arena.

Perhaps this might be a thought - that you could fence off a smaller area to be eaten down ? (which you could then also ride in ?)

Or could you get a local farmer to "top" the pasture ? That also helps a lot. Especially if they graze it unevenly. Our big field normally gets topped at some stage.

Tootsie4U

25th Jul 2005, 03:12 PM

"top" the pasture? Im afraid Im not familiar with that expression! :D:D Do you mean mow it down? We did that already...

We actually are planning to divide the paddocks in halves - if not thirds. We just haven't gotten around to it yet. I may have to bump that chore up a few levels on the 'to do' list!

cvb

25th Jul 2005, 03:34 PM

Yup - "topping" is taking the top off the grass :)

But if you topped it, how come its got so long again so fast ? Then it does sound like you need to divide it up a bit. Hey - then you could get those cows you were talking about Bon working and have them in the other section ! ;)

(We have cattle on ours right now to eat it down. At one stage we also had sheep - but only cos the lambs were going walk-about :rolleyes: )

galadriel

25th Jul 2005, 05:25 PM

Have you tried making the hay that he does get less accesible?

Our various posters with founder-prone horses have mentioned a lot of ways to stretch out grass and hay. One of them was double-netting hay, or using haynets with tiny openings; those slow down the rate at which horses can gobble. There are the grazing muzzles--there's strip grazing--there are probably a lot of other suggestions in the Horse Care & Health section, or people might be willing to offer more :) if you post under soem kind of leading thread title.

Kanuma

25th Jul 2005, 07:13 PM

i phone the farmer down the road who provides all the hay and haylege for alot of the equine population round here.
he delivers the haylege to us as it is covered in plastic i normaly order 10 small haylege and one large haylege, i store all the closed haylege on the yard in a pile. the open bale goes in the feed room. the large bale goes out in the field as we dont have much grass on there at all. i go through a big bale every 2 weeks between 4 ponies and 10 small bales of haylege every 2 weeks for the 2 who are stabled at night. im not sure how much each small bale weighs, just that i can throw them around fairly easily.

edited to say: tripple netting a haynet with haylegenets (small holes) realy slows them down alot!! tried and tested with stan.

cvb

26th Jul 2005, 07:51 AM

Tootsie

We give Duds and Fi feedballs with just grass nuts in them when they are in. Its just as an amusement...

They get them at our last check at 10pm, and as we leave you can hear the sound of feedballs being bounced off the wall :rolleyes: They've both worked out an effective way to empty them - by getting them in a corner and bouncing them up to the wall and back. Its sounds like they are taking the stables down !! :eek: But seems to keep them amused...

(Red doesn't get one as he needs the food and is more likely to get bored and stop eating than scoff it all - so he just gets the same amount in his feed bowl. But he knows the technique. He "visits" the other stables - we let him wander while we groom the other two. And he will find a ball and check it out for any remaining content ;))

Tootsie4U

26th Jul 2005, 01:18 PM

Haha!

We got the U-Channel in, which has completely done away with Bon's wood chewing (because he can't chew anymore). He doesnt seem bored in his stall - he actually seems to enjoy coming in. He will actually ask to come in and when he's in, he seems very relaxed and content. (He just hangs his head over the stall door and lets the fan blow on him - I've caught him dozing too! To this day, I've never seen this horse sleep, so thats saying something). Possibly the wood chewing is a deficiency rather than a plain vice.

Bonfire knows how to exploit those treat dispensers too! The best thing I found for him was an empty Gatorade bottle hung from a beam and he has to toss it about to get the food out. That keeps him busy for hours. But, I obviously can't give him treats right now and he's only getting a handful (literally) of food to keep him occupied while Fella gets his supplements.