I am intimidated by my horse.

[Lindsayanne]

I'm so overwhelmed right now.

I bought my first horse in late April and have had him at a trainer since then- taking private lessons on him three times a week. He's never been perfect, but he's a good natured beginner horse and after he learned to respect me as boss, with my trainer's help, we worked pretty well together and were really moving forward.

But my trainer is a 90 minute drive each way so the goal all along has been to get us to a point where I could keep my horse closer. A few weeks ago my trainer said we were ready to make the move and last Friday I moved Regal to a tiny, private farm near my house.

But Regal has used the move to try challenging me again (which my trainer had prepared me for) but I fear I may not be winning. I mean, when I ask him to do something I MAKE him, I don't give in (for example, he didn't want to long line the other day, and I kept with it till I got him doing it obediently, he didn't want to load in the trailer but I kept at it till I got him in, etc)

But the truth is I am just terrified. I'm scared he'll just ignore me and do his own thing and hurt me, but I'm afraid of his reaction if I smack or reprimand him (even though it do do it, I sort of cringe and pull back if he responds negatively). He's a big horse and I just am seriously lacking in the guts department. My trainer says that's one of my biggest problems, that in the saddle I'd rather have a safe disobedient horse than feel uncomfortable or less in control of an obedient horse. Add to all that that at this farm I am alone with him most of the time and you have me, a very intimated rider.

I talked this all over with my trainer when I trailered Regal up for a lesson yesterday (still doing lessons, just once a week now) and even wanted to go back to boarding there and the old arrangement. My trainer was sympathic but said I HAD to get through this and get Regal respecting me for me if I ever wanted to have a good working relationship with him. AH!

I'm dreading riding and I HATE that. Having this horse is supposed to be a dream come true, instead I have a horse trying to walk all over me and me constantly fighting with him. :(

Any words of encouragement? Are there any non-confrontational things I can do to build respect?

[notpoodle]

oh dear :( i really feel for you on that one. not sure what to suggest though, as i am no expert on dealing with dominant horses :(

julia
x

[finski]

Sorry to say but I don't think there are any non-confrontaional things you can do with a horse to gain respect. They are very social animals with a pecking order in a herd and that pecking order is changing, all the time. Horses on the lower end of the pecking order will try to move up if they see a weakness in a herdmate. It's just they way they function. That being said, your trainer is right on the money with you. She seems to feel you have the capability to overcome this, have some faith in yourself!! :)
Has he done anything yet and if so what? Maybe we can give you some advice on how to handle each 'test' he tries to undertake with you. Just remember, he is just being a horse and don't take it personally. Also remember that it has only been a week since he has been at his new place and might not have adjusted to the move. If he is alone now and he had horse friends at the old place he might be out of sorts. I really would give another week or so for him to settle in. Hope this helps and let us now some specifics so maybe we could give some more precise advice! Keep your chin up, you WILL prevail!!!!!!

[CrazyMare]

:( oh dear, why don't you try Join -up with him? there's loads of methods you could try , do some ground work with him because if he dose'nt respect you on the ground he won't when your riding him either! its so important to teach a dominant horse your personal space and that he can't enter that - zone if you like. My horse is quite dominant so I have to keep telling him who's boss when I'm doing my everyday day chores, telling him to back away if he crowds my space etc . Im sure your trainer can help you a lot more though as he has seen you and your horse and can understand better! for your horse to trust and respect you you need to do the same remember! I know how nerve racking it can be when your faced with such a large , intimidateing powerful animal, :eek: I would look into doing some sort of natural hosemanship with him as you can build such great understanding, trust and respect with it. and remember a horse can sense your fear and thats proberly why is is pushing the boundries!! good luck with him! :D

[mayS]

Don't give into the fear. You've done everything right, and you've been taught the right ways to handle a horse safely! :) I also keep my horses at my home and so have to work with them or ride them alone, so I can relate.

Next time you get that feeling, remind yourself of a few things:
He'd never be aggressive or mean to you, has he? He's not a mean, vicious, or angry animal. If he reacts unexpectedly, it's almost always from fear and/or confusion. He might move away from the pressure, but he won't turn on you for being the source of it.

And don't let his size have anything to do with it. I'll take my calm-but-huge Belgian draft horse over any high-strung little TB any day.

Remind yourself of the nature of horses: they're prey animals. They don't have a prey of their own drive or a desire to hunt. Their first desire when upset is to run away if they can. He's not going to turn on you and maul you like an angry pit-bull if you gently correct him or if you ask him to work.

Keep telling yourself: he isn't going to hurt you intentionally. He has been professionally trained, and if he was unsafe the trainer would've warned you. And most horses aren't aggressive anyway.

Remember too that horses are herd animals. They like to look to others for leadership, guidance, and discipline. He wants you to give him the right answer. He wants to respect you. You just need to reassure him and give him the confidence he needs.

I think alot of your fear comes from not knowing what he's thinking. Instead of working him next time, just spend time with him for a while. Groom him, play with him, give him treats, or just walk him around on the leadrope. Learn his body language. Watch him as he interacts with other people or horses. Or next time you're at the trainer's barn, watch the other horses. Once you learn to recognize the significance of, for example, pinned ears, you'll know when he's upset, alert, bored, or what.

Also realize horses are very aware of our body language. If you come across as nervous or unsure, he'll start being nervous too. It's that herd instinct again.

It's ok to limit your time together to safer activities. If you're not up to trail riding him yet, don't. There's no need to rush. Or if you're not up to riding him alone, you don't have to. Recognize your own comfort zone and work within it to allow time for your confidence to build naturally.

Right now your relationship is that you make him work while you worry & and he does the work you ask, but you're not communicating or connecting. Maybe it's time to do something different.

One idea is to look into structured study-at-home programs (for example John Lyons). It'll give you different things to try out at home. Or if you get satellite, look to see if you get RFD-TV, an excellent channel full of different horse training shows.

I personally highly recommend clicker training. You can do it without any helpers and without any professional trainer. All you need is a clicker (about $1.50) and treats. Soon he'll be begging to please you! He'll even stop to think of things that might please you enough to earn him more treats. I can't begin to describe the difference in my relationship with my gelding till I started it. Now he's eager to see me, he *wants* to work, and he's actually problem-solving to come up with the right answer I'm looking for. It's positive-reinforcement based so you are not required to correct him at all. And you'll start getting results in just 1-2 sessions, I promise.

And once he's started with clicker you can pair it with your other training method to help him learn faster. You can also use clicker to encourage him to learn your lounging or riding cues.

For more info on clicker,
- Pick up the book "Clicker Training your Horse" by Kurland
- Join the horse clicker message list endorsed by the book's author:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clickryder/
- try to go to a clicker training seminar if you can. It's something that's much easier to understand if you can see it in action.
or just drop me a line and I'll be happy to try to help! I'm by no means an expert, but I'm happy to share the little bit of knowlege I have.

[RiderGirl]

I agree, dominant horses are pretty difficult, even if they are usually calm. But horse ownership should be something you enjoy, not something that makes you hate horseback riding. To overcome your fear of your horse, maybe you should lunge him with his saddle on. That way, you can be in charge of your horse's speed, and not worry about him biting you or kicking you in the face! And groundwork IS helpful. Just walk him around on his lead rope, and if he does something undesirable, like refuse to walk on, punish him. But remember to be fair to him! If you are worried he will hurt you if you punish him, have someon help you, or carry a carrot stick or lunge whip. This usually seems to get the respect out of horses! Hope I helped.

[Sezza]

Hi. I know how you feel, I dont have much bravery at the moment when it comes to riding my horse. And he is getting more and more resentful of being ridden. So I have decided to start Parelli. I got the new advanced pack 1 this week, have been studying it like crazy, and am starting this weekend. So fingers crossed for us!

I have to say even though I am only just starting it, that I do recommend Parelli as safety and confidence seem to be a big priority which is something I like. They say to never ride if you dont feel 100% confident, or if you are riding and get scared, get off straight away. Your better off dealing with problems from the ground. I like that attitude, rather than what my trainer says such as "make him go" or the equally unhelpful comment of "get tough" or "be confident" like its just that easy!

Anyway it might be worth trying it, you got nothing to lose when it comes to spending the money, as you'd get it back on ebay if it didnt work.

[Moomin]

I too know how you feel - although thankfully I have come through that stage now and no longer shake with fear at the thought of getting on my own horse!

I've had her for two years - it took just about one year of that for me not to dread doing work of any sort with her. Best piece of advice I was ever given - and one which has definitely saved me from serious injury - If its not right - get off! and if you don't think you should be getting on - don't! You're not wimping out etc you're just being sensible. Don't leave your horse alone though - do something else with him. I found ground work, grooming (many saturdays spent polishing and pampering!) have greatly improved my relationship with my horse, and made her trust me more.

[cazrider]

I do sympathise Lindsayanne. That's just how I was with my last horse. Have you thought of, or tried hypnosis? It worked for me.

Loys of good advice in this thread.

Best of luck

[newnovice]

I can sympathize. I got my first horse in April, too. Though I do have her at a stable with many other horses and riders, it is very intimidating to work with her.

I found a book called "Teach Your Horse Perfect Manners" by Kelly Marks, which I really like. One of the most important concepts she imparts is that the horse really NEEDS you to be the leader, so they can be comfortable and happy. She teaches that if you just expect the good behavior and then insist on it, the horse will probably have good behavior.

I have a mare who can be rather intimidating. I've had to work very hard to learn to be the boss with her and I still have a long way to go. I know that when I'm a little bit hesitent, she does get more nervous and it's really important to at least pretend to be calm and sure of myself. I don't like to smack her either, but it works and my trainer has taught me to reward her with affection when she does even the slightest move right.

One thing I did was stop giving her treats. I would bring her treats all the time and she was getting pushy and trying to walk all over me. My trainer said, "don't you want her to be happy to see you because she's happy to see you and not because you give her treats?" and she was right. Since I've stopped that, she responds better to me and is not so pushy.

Like cazrider, I have had hypnosis and it's been a big help. Sounds a little crazy, but I think that we can get into a cycle of negativity and the hypnosis really broke that cycle. Replacing the negativity with statements like "this is the perfect horse for me", etc., has been a big help.

Having a horse has been a lifelong dream for me (I'm in my 40's and just starting riding for the first time a year ago), also, and I think that this puts so much pressure on the situation. As somebody above said, it may take us a year or more to really get comfortable and that's OKAY.

Good luck, we can do it!! :)

[Trewsers]

Oh dear, I really feel for you :( It is scary if you don't have the back up - have you any horse wise friends you can enlist the help of who live near to you? echo what somebody else said, your trainer must think you're up to the job though - so stick with it!!! Don't be afraid - horses (unless they're odd ball bad-uns) are generally nice gentle creatures - they don't mean it personally - its just their instinct. I had no idea how they wouldn't respect you if you didn't show them that you had the necessary credentials to be their leader. :rolleyes: It takes time - so give it a bit more, your horse is just trying it on - if its only been a week! It might take months for them to settle down. Read as much as you can - call your trainer for advice whenever you can and stay safe, make sure you have your hat, gloves and boots on if you're lunging etc. If it makes you feel better wear your hat when dealing with your horse in the stable - don't be scared, try and fool your horse into thinking your confident, shoulders back - assertive voice etc. After a while, you'll not be fooling horsey, you WILLl be confident! :D Try not to get too down - you're doing it for fun and enjoyment!!! Good luck and keep us all posted :D

[horsey1]

Newnovice I think I will have to get that book and maybe hypnosis I went up this morning to see my (first horse) it has been very wet yesterday and overnight so I brought him in with the intention of drying him off and putting a rain sheet on, but he was too, I dont know what was wrong he was shaking like a leaf and really not happy in the stable pawing at his bed and rushing at the door I got a bit scared and put him back out in the field with no rug and he galloped off to his pals. I dont know, he has just been moved to another field with lots more grass but with the same field buddys.
Sometimes I think hes too much for me and I should give it up, I mean what am I doing wrong maybe i'm too soft or maybe I have too many people riding him

[momofsix]

I am so grateful for this thread! When I got home from the barn yesterday, I felt the same way! I was so frustrated with myself. I felt that I was the only one who wanted their own horse all my life and is now wimping out. Now I feel better. One of my new mares has been a real challenge for me the last few days. I have only had her for 3 weeks and still haven't got a saddle that fits her well. So two days ago I was grooming her and she wouldn't stand still and yesterday I was walking her with a lead rope and boy, was that a battle. But she was very good for OH. Now I am kind of scared to ride her once I get a saddle to fit her. I also feel very overwhelmed. I think I need to do lots more ground work with this horse. Keep your chin up. If you need more help from your trainer, get it. Don't feel bad. I am starting to think this is normal and those people that just confidently sail through horse ownership are the exception---or the immature teenagers at my barn....

[Lindsayanne]

Thanks for all your advice, guys.

I rode him this morning. I carried a whip with me from the time I entered the barn to the time I put him back in his stall and that seemed to help some on the ground.

My routine is that I get him out of his stall, turn him loose in the arena to get the worst of his energy burnt while I clean his stall, then get him, tack him up, and long line him (with his saddle on, with one line connected to each side of the bit) then once he's moving, mount up and ride.

He gives me the worst trouble when I'm starting him on the long lines. He just wants to go fast, fast, FAST and pull my arms out of the sockets, or just stop and face up to me. Either way he's not listening. How do I punish him for going to FAST? A harsher bit? (just using a fat eggbutt snaffle now) I'm just dragging on his mouth now trying to get control. :( When I took him to my trainer's Wednsday and long lined him there he was an ANGEL. :mad:

Even though his manners tacking up and leading were better, he was WAY worse under saddle today. To the point where I felt like he was trying to bolt with me (it's a HUGE arena) and at another point stopped and did a little half-rear. This is NOT MY HORSE. :( he's completely different than he was a week ago. My trainer told me if I was uncomfortable using my whip in the saddle to just jump off and whack him hard, then remount. So I tried that after the half rear, and he did let me get back on and was a little better- I took that "improvement" as a quitting point and went to dismount and he FLIPPED OUT. I guess thinking I was getting off to whip him. :( Luckily both feet were out of the stirrups so I just pushed off and landed on my feet.

I don't think I can keep doing this. I'm just not a confident enough horsewoman to be 100% secure with him on the BEST days, let alone when he's like this. My trainer acted like it would be worse to take him back to the training stable, but I can't imagine it could be any worse than this. :(

[Tootsie4U]

I took that "improvement" as a quitting point and went to dismount and he FLIPPED OUT. I guess thinking I was getting off to whip him

Lesson learnt for you, eh?

To fix a problem, you first have to know why there is one in the first place.

Why do you think he's trying to tank off? Why do you think he's trying mini-rears? If he really wanted to be viscious, it wouldn't take much more... he's trying to tell you something. Any ideas what it might be?

[Peace]

Is there not some way to put step in between having him at the trainer's and your having the sole responsibility for him? For instance, could you board him someplace closer to you than the trainer's, but where you'd have some help dealing with him?

I'd advise taking him back to the trainer for a while, let her put a "handle" back on him, and in the meantime look for a boarding stable near you where you'd have someone to help teach you how to manage him, or at least be there for moral support. Why does the trainer think it would make him worse to return him to her?

Or, tbh, maybe look around for another trainer.

[Tootsie4U]

btw, stopping to face up is a sign of confusion. Ditto re. the fast fast fast. Horses clear their minds by moving their feet - its a natural born instinct. Run first, think later when you're far away from whatever it is that's freaking you out.

You should not punish your horse for facing up to you. He's asking 'why' or 'how'. This is a time to be sympathetic and re-approach the way you're asking the question.

What does he do when you say he's 'challenging you'?

[finski]

Remember that I said you have only had him at your new place for only a week. GIVE him a chance to settle in!!!!!!!! Some settle in right away and some take a while, ESPECIALLY if he is missing any old horse buddies from the old place. He just may being a butt head but on the other hand you really havn't given him a chance to settle in. Slow and steady wins the race!!

[finski]

PLEASE just at least listen to my post above, some people just rush things toooooooo much, give him a chance to tell you what he is thinking!!!!

[Lindsayanne]

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

Turns out his behavior was mostly attributable to the feed at the new stable- and how much of it they were giving him! I got to questioning the barn owner about feeding and found out they were feeding a much higher protien feed and much more of it.

I had them cut back on grain and add hay on Saturday, and by Monday he was nearly back to his old self. Not perfect, but so much more submissive and willing and docile. I turned him out today and instead of galloping off as fast as he could, he hung around with me for a few minutes wanting scratched, then ambled off and broke into a nice little canter halfway down the arena. THAT'S my horse, not that hyperactive demon I had last week.

I hope I'm not jinxing myself by writing this, I DO have to load him in a trailer by myself tomorrow. :eek: Send us good vibes! :D

[Janette]

I think you are very brave - to carry on doing something which scares the bits out of you. Don't worry about the loading, because you know you can do that. Does it matter how long it takes? If so, give more time - but you kow that you can do it. You already have! Have faith in yourself. Let us know how things go on......

[Peace]

Whew! I'm glad it turned out to be something relatively simple to fix. :) Feed sure can make a difference - at my barn the feed man once mixed up our order and sent us 14% protein for horses who were accustomed to 10%. I will never forget that week! :eek:

[momofsix]

It was the feed--I would have never thought of that. I think you are doing a great job being a perceptive horse owner.

[cazrider]

And a lesson to be learnt for all of us :D

Hope it went well today :)

[Naturally]

Good for you Lindsayanne, but do be careful. Feed is never 100% if the problem and if the horse gets hyped by feed, they will more often than not get hyped in other situations too.

If I were in your shoes (and I was 3 years ago) I'd be looking into a NH method. Parelli is the one I have chosen and find it to be the soundest of all in terms of rider safety.

Good luck and don't despair.

[hackedoff]

Oh lor I sympathise too. Last year I went throught the 'terrible teens' with my gelding :( Well done for spotting the feed issue!!!! :) These probs are IMHO normally environmental, too much of the wrong feed (as you so astutely noticed) not enough turnout, not enough socialising, a bit that needs changing, a saddle that has been outgrown- these are all avenues worth exploring and eliminating before you move on to behavioural issues.
And just to agree with Naturally, it was all the above then an intensive course of Groundwork that worked for me.
Let us know how you get on.

[NoviceNic]

One of the biggest issues when horses turn into the devil are what they eeating. I guess the say "You are what you eat" really is something to watch for all novice owners. I fell foul to this with my first horse. I have been lucky with Captain as when I started to hard feed in the Winter his mood didn't really change that much. I have noticed however that when he goes on the longer grassed paddock he becomes a little monkey. My friends cob as well has fired up his 12 valve engine since being on the longer grass. Now you have discovered the cause you will both be able to go from strength to strength. Good Luck.