Question about loose ring bits

[Scarlett 001]

My instructor prefers to work with Ultra kk loose ring bits. All of her students have them, and all the horses seem to work fine in them. I bought a loose ring, peanut-lozenge bit as the ultra kk was a bit pricey after all my recent purchases and vet bills. The bit is medium thickness and overall should be quite soft in his mouth.

I am unsure if Skeeter really likes this bit though. At the walk recently, when I try to get a bit more contact with the reins (i.e., no longer on a totally loose rein, but still quite a loose rein) he sticks his head up in the air and kind of plays with the bit jerking it (this does not seem to be related to his hoof issue - I am pretty sure it is the bit as he does it when I ask for contact even though we are still at the walk). Loose ring bits are supposed to let the horse play with the bit more, and not grab on to resist, correct? Could it be that Skeeter is just not used to the bit and could accept it in time or should I try something new already (really I have not ridden him much yet)? Maybe he is used to grabbing on to a bit to evade contact (remember he was a school horse with all sorts of beginner on him in the past - including me!) and he is frustrated or something with the play he has with this bit. Could the bit be too thick? I just don't know enough about bits to guess what he is trying to tell me. He does not appear annoyed or angry when he lifts his head - no tail swishing or pricked ears - he looks calm enough other than the head.

I am sure my instructor will have advice when I finally can take lessons again, but I am just curious as to how well horses can adapt to a new type of bit in time, when they have been used to something else perhaps?

[Tiber]

What bit was he in before?

If he was ok in it maybe you should stick with it.

I had loads of problems finding a bit for my mare - currently riding bitless though! :cool:

[Yann]

There's a big difference between the shape of a KK ultra and most other french link bits as the rings that attach to the central link are angled at 45 degrees rather than straight. This along with the shape of the lozenge makes the contact across the bit smooth and continuous, if you try it across your forearm you can feel the difference straight away. The metal alloy it's made from is also more 'tasty' which also makes a big difference. In short Rio hates regular metal FL bits but goes very nicely in a KK, it is sadly worth the extra expense:D

[Portia]

Hi, have a look at this website www.neueschulebits.com. They produce quality bits for a reasonable price, friends have told me are very similar in design to the more expensive varieties. The owner Heather, is also very knowledgable re bitting - hope this helps!

[Tootsie4U]

He'll feel the difference straight away and could just be reacting to that.

I really don't mean to offend, but it is a question that should be asked. Is it on correctly (not backwards)?

You're right, loose rings are so horses can't grab them.

The detrement with a loose ring bit is that they tend to pinch. Could that be a reason? Check the corners of his mouth. Do they look rubbed? That'd certainly cause me to throw my head :D

If all checks out ok, I'd stick with it for a few more rides and see if he just needs time to settle to the change. If the bit he's normally ridden in is a big contrast I wouldnt be surprised by his reaction.

[augermoon]

Was also going to recommed the Neue Schule bits. I tried a KK Sprenger loose ring for my horse and loved it but couldn't bring myself to spend 80pounds on one. Someone on here recommended Neue Schule to me and they are very similar but very slightly milder apparently. Arnie goes really well in his, and it was half the price of the KK.

[Scarlett 001]

Thanks for suggestions.

One thing that I have noticed is that as he relaxes into the ride and focuses more, this tendency to poke his head up and play with the bit seems to stop.

That web site was useful as it did provide some tips on finding a bit. Overall, one does seem to kind of go with instinct to a large extent in determining if a bit is suitable. But I would like to know exactly how one sorts out if a bit is the right thickness etc. for your horse's mouth.

To be honest, Skeeter and I have just been puttering around a bit at walk because of the hoof problem, and he has not really had to focus and work yet. I'll wait for a few more serious rides and see how he responds to the bit at that point. I may return with more questions at that point.

I am trying to find out what bit he was ridden in before. So often he was put in other horse's tack etc., not stuff just for him, so it may not have been consistent.

[galadriel]

Kat doesn't much care for French links and hates loose rings. So even when a bit is generally a good one, doesn't mean that every horse will like it.

If he doesn't acclimate to it, you could try a bit with similar mouthpiece but sild cheeks of some kind.

[Scarlett 001]

At the time I bought this bit I am now using, I also bought a D-ring french link (not the lozenge center piece but the more usual french link). I have not returned it yet. They said I could try it out and still return it, so maybe I should try it.

Is a D-ring ok as an option, or is an eggbutt generally preferable? Or are they quite similar really? Is the lozenge/peanut center piece softer than the normal french link, or will this french link be worth trying out?

Galadriel, would the head action Skeeter is going be broadly similar to the kind of reaction Kat did to let you know that she did not like a bit? Is this the kind of response a horse might give in this situation?

Thanks!

[galadriel]

A D-ring has a bit more contact at the cheeks, a bit like a full cheek. But it's also similar to an eggbutt, and worth trying if you think the loose ring is annoying him.

You can get an idea of the way the bit mouthpieces work by putting them across the palm of your hand and letting the cheeks droop to either side. It's by no means precise :) but you can use it for some comparison.

I think that the lozonge bits appear more rounded and mild than the regular french links, but you can try it and see. In theory I suppose the french link should be lying flat against the horse's tongue, so what seems like an edge to us might never come into play.

[galadriel]

Actually, Kat went side-to-side or behind the bit. Getting above the bit or yanking at it is a bit similar to Duchess when she really hates a bit, though--of course, she hates all bits, just hates some a little less than others. She also yanks when she thinks contact is inadequate--either too much or too little.

It does sound like unhappiness with a bit or with contact--of course being disgruntled about a contact can relate directly to the bit itself. You could try the D-ring, since the store says you can try & return it--see if he does the same thing. If so, or before trying the D-ring, you can try going straight from loose reins to a significant contact (no loose-ish contact in between) and see if that makes him any happier. The hesitant contact can be really annoying to some horses...

[Scarlett 001]

Question: When putting a bit on the bridle, I realize the bit can be on backwards - the curve of the two outer bars need to face the correct direction. But can a french-link or lozenge bit be put on "upside down" and how do you tell which way is correct? I am not sure if anyone will be at the stables when I next go in and I want to know how to do it myself.

[Scarlett 001]

Actually I found an eggbutt french link today at a store which I will try.

I was putting the eggbut and loose ring bits across my arm, and one thing was clear - the loose ring bit wiggles a lot when rings are pulled and I imagine it could be irritating to some horses.

[ponylover88]

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[Scarlett 001]

What I have been gathering (and I could be wrong) is that because there is more play in a loose ring, the horse cannot grab onto the bit and sort of hang on and such. So good for a strong horse that could hold on and evade contact that way. And because the bit can move around, subtle cues can be given by the rider that the horse can feel and respond to. I got the impression that in unsteadier hands, the loose ring bit can move about - I could be wrong.

[jUmPingIsLifE]

haha...oops i just posted about loose rings and now i just found your post :p we must have esp or whatever that thing is called.

if your horse goes well in what it has i wouldn't change it unless you think there is something better. i am also experimenting with bits trying to find something perfect for tahoe


edit: i just say you replyed to my thread too haha

[ponylover88]

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[galadriel]

But can a french-link or lozenge bit be put on "upside down" and how do you tell which way is correct?

The bars of the bit should still have some curve to them, to help you determine which way is up.

Have you tried the eggbutt yet?

[Aphrodite]

Hi there.

Loose ring bits do have their advantages, however they can pinch. If your horse does lean and you do not want to go back to an eggbutt, try the rubber bit rings you can fix to them. That should eliminate pinching so you can figure out if that is the problem. They are only about £3 in the tack shops near me, so not a large expense by any means and definately cheaper than trying another bit!

My little filly is in a loose ring sweet iron french link, with a copper lozenge (she's only just about being backed, so good for her to play with). She seems happy with the loose ring. However, the gelding I have prefers an eggbutt. It's horses for courses i'm afraid.

The bit is too thick if the horses teeth don't come together when the bit is in, and the tongue seems squished out of the sides. Have a look in your horses mouth before the bit is in, and compare with other horses. Does her tongue look thicker then theirs in comparison?

A lot of people say thinner bits are more severe, which they can be. However, if a horse has a particularly fleshy tongue a thinner bit will be more comfortable as he will be able to close his mouth better. If his tongue is very fleshy you may want something thinner or with a port, depending on the roof of his mouth.

Have you had his teeth checked?

[Dizzy]

When you say you are using a loose rien, do mean you are riding him into a relaxed contact, where you are always riding him towards the bit, and you always have a connection with his mouth on both riens, or do you mean the riens are loose and there is little connection between your aids and the bit?

A loose ring, that also has a double centre link, has 4 pliable links, if you look at an eggbutt with a double centre link, it has 2 pliable links. A straight bar eggbut has no pliable links.

The pliable links allow the rider to influence one side of the horses mouth, without it affecting the bit on the other side of the mouth, so its more precise than an eggbut - niether are harsh bits.

If your contact is iffy butty, the horse will feel it more so with a loose ring, than an eggbut, as a loose contact means the bit will move about in thier mouth as you move, and as it has 4 junctions to move from, it won't be comfortable.

Keep in mind that you should ride him towards the bit, so you should ride him into your contact, so your contact should always be there - I'm not suggesting short riens, just a contact on both riens, but insist that he walks into it. If you give him no guide lines to work within, you won't progress - you are his teacher - he's a horse, and has no idea what you want of him, you have to teach him :D

[Scarlett 001]

Thanks for ideas everyone. I will check the bit thickness. Actually, sometimes I can sort of see Skeeter's teeth a bit when I am riding and I look in the mirror. Maybe it is indeed too thick. I'll examine his mouth next time it is in to check he can shut his teeth and what the tongue is doing. He has always disliked having the bridle put in right back to when I rode him as a school horse. He was a bit better the first few times I rode him - now he is back to bridling evasion - I do wonder if the bit is an issue.

The eggbutt I have is a bit thinner - if he responds better it will be hard to tell if it is the eggbutt part he prefers, or the thinner bit. I have not tried it yet. Still mucking about trying to find a saddle, so I have decided to focus on one thing at time - stressful to think about both.

I will test out the eggbutt sometime early next week when I go for a ride. This weekend I have been focussing on saddles - I am finding this overwhelming enough without stressing about the bit at the same time. :(

[Scarlett 001]

So last night I went to the stables and lunged Skeeter and I tested a few bits on him and did a small test ride.

I tried out an eggbutt french link - somewhat less thick than the other bit I was using, which was a reasonably thick, loose ring lozenge bit. He seemed quite happy in this eggbutt from the little testing we did - he did not do that strange head lifting/jerking when I went from loose rein to contact. I will go for a longer ride this week and confirm some more. The thing is if he does prefer this new bit, I will not be certain if he did not like the loose ring, thickness, or lozenge as several things changed in this new bit. Honestly, based on my last lesson I think my hands are a bit wobbly and when combined with the loose ring it was just a bit irritating for him - too much play and movement. Maybe I can eventually go back to a loose ring once my hands are more stable and if there is some particular reason to do so.