biting horses

[Gemani]

At my stables some of the horses try to bite you, particually when you tack them up. The problem is as you are not supposed to go behind the horse to get to its other side you have to go round the front of them which means they have an excellent opportunity to bite you. My friend got a lovely bruise from one of the horses when she went round the front of it just to pick its feet on that side.
We keep them in stables therefore going round the back of them is not a good idea.

The person who owns the yard says its because they have little children around them a lot and can get away with it. She said you need to shout at them but this obviously doesn't look good.

I would love to gain more experience with the horses but I just end up nervous and leaving somebody more experenieced to get on with it. What should I do?

[eventerbabe]

a firm "NO" and a poke on the nose usually stops my horse biting. i take it these are riding school horses?

[Perfect Pony]

ok so when you say bit do you mean they bite nastily or they nip because they want tip bits?

If they are just nipping then just being stern with them will work, just be a bit more stern in your voice, not necesarily (sp) shouting!!
If they are actually biting nastily then this is a bit more difficult, the horse should not be fed tip bits if it bites as this will make it worse!!!
And you must always be aware that the horse bites all the time you are around it so dont turn your back to give it the oportunity, i had the same prob with an ex racehorse of my instructors who would bite nastily when tacked up and being stern in your voice really works!!
I just used to watch her and say " Ey " It worked with her but if the horse carries on you could get someone to help you however they have to be careful too, get someone to hold the horse on a short rope but make sure they are aware that this horse bites and are alert to be stern and hold the horses head still!!! Then you will be ok to groom and tack up without worry, the horse should then learn it is easier to behave than to bite!!!

Hope this helps, i know how frustrating it is when your trying to tack up and you keep getting a nasty nip!!!

Also you said that this is at a riding stables therefore you should not be putting yourself at danger tacking up a 'nasty' horse? the people that own the yard and horse should, it shouldnt be your problem to teach the horse some manners!!!

[kayjayhorses]

If they are tied up to a tie ring in the stable, shorten the length of the lead rope so they can't reach you, if they have too much freedom with their head they will keep biting and can be quite nasty. It doesn't solve the problem because it doesn't really teach them to stop but atleast you wont get hurt.

[Trewsers]

Echo the firm no and sharp poke in the nose! This has worked with my mare - usually now an asssertive "no" does the trick. :)

[epcd3000]

Definately what you mentioned.. There are mostly little children riding these horses, so these ponies have quickly figured out that they can get away with quite a bit when they start nipping.

Sullivan was like that with me when I first started part boarding him. He is a very dominant male American Saddlebred horse.. Almost 16.3hh-ish. At one point he actually got a hold of my arm and bruised it up reallll bad. To make matters worse his previous owner used to abuse him, so whenver he was in cross ties he would turn really evil just because of the memories (plus he knew he could get away with it and the people near him would back away) Anyways, every time I after that I would put him into the cross ties and give him one single treat once put his ears forward. I would hold a crop by my side and go about my business of grooming him. Anytime that bugger would turn his neck and try to grab a hold of me I would swiftly crop him in the behind and sternly say "NO!" I did it so fast Sully didn't realize what had happened, only that it's really scary to bite Jenn! It took months of hard work but now I don't even have to remind him to be nice.. He's just overall pleasant and continues to get a treat before and after the ride, and lots of lovin'! :)

The only problem in your scenario is that a lot of other little children ride those horses as well I'm assuming, so it'll be almost impossible to wean them from this biting issue. The best you can do is just remind them yourself when tacking up so they know not to take advantage of you.

Good luck! :D

[Sarah-Jane]

My mare can nip sometimes when I am tacking up, and like you said I always go around the front, thats when she tries to gets me!!

When going under her neck or round the front, I just put a hand on her head collar and keep her at an arms length away. Also you can feel when she is turning or moving to get into position for a bite.

This isn't solving it, but it might make things easier for the moment.

[*Sez*]

The first day we bought Jake and moved him to our yard, he bit my hand when I was grooming him :eek:
He's very assertive and was probably upset by (or trying to be the boss of) the other horses in the barn. I was in between him and Monty, my friend's horse, and Jake had already tried to bite Monty twice, so I think maybe that was his intention, and my hand just got in the way :o

I ended up with this great big blood blister down the side of my right hand with two bleeding crescents where a couple of his teeth had broken the skin. Even a week and a half on, I've still got very little feeling down the side of my hand, from right under my little finger to my wrist! :eek: and I'll have a beaut of a scar! He got a smack on the shoulder for it and a few sharp words (I think I was too shocked to rant, but "you b*$%*^d!" was the first thing I could say once it'd sunk in!) but he looked very sorry with himself and kept trying to nuzzle me in apology!

The biggest problem with riding school yards is that there's no control over pupils giving the horses *** bits, which encourages nipping and occasionally, real agressiveness. I always used to despair of youngsters, or non-horsey parents insisting that they had to give their pony a treat after the lesson - the horses get used to it and get frustrated when the treat doesn't materialise next time someone visits their loose box (i.e. when I went in to skip out, or groom and tack up!). I also used to catch kids that came for full days giving the horses sweets, crisps, sandwiches and even once half a Pot-Noodle (!! :eek: :mad: ) but that's beside the point.

An assertive "no" should do, and perhaps *gently and slowly* push their muzzle away from you and smack on the shoulder if they actually catch you. I don't like smacking horses on the head, nose or neck as it can induce "head shy"ness and ruin a lot of their trust in you. I was once horrifed to see one of the livery owners get bucked off their horse in the outdoor school, and once she got her breath back, she slapped her mare across the nose with her riding crop! :mad: The sound was absolutely sickening, and the poor horse was crazy with fear, trying to get away from the crop. In my opinion she was lucky her mare didn't rear up and knock her silly head off :rolleyes:

Echo the firm no and sharp poke in the nose!
All well and good, Trewsers, but what if they go for the poking finger, too? :D

[Peace]

I don't understand why it's safer to go around the front? My farrier always tells me it's far easier to get hurt by front feet than back feet, even leaving aside the biting issue. Of course, when you go behind you pass as close as possible to the back legs, so that if they kick you'll get bumped by the hock rather than hit by the hoof. And keep a hand on their rump and talk to them so they know you're there. :)

Are these horses tied while you're tacking up? If so, do you have to duck under their noses and pass between their front feet and the wall they're tied to? I'll only do that with Bram or some equally trustworty horse I know well, cause that puts you in a really dangerous position! :eek:

[Gemani]

The horses aren't tied up but they stand very close to the wall of their stable. Holding the headcollor/bridle once you are going underneath their neck is quite a skill-it requires good balance and strength! I guess this will only come with practise.

The horses are always given a handful of pony nuts after a lesson but other than that people never give them their lunch-yet alone a pot noodle! :D

If you suddenly hit the horse with a whip won't that cause them to retaliate even more by possibly kicking? Especially if they dont realise its coming!

Plus, anybody get any further comments on whether it really is safer to go round the back?

[Vicki&Milo]

I once bit the pony back (on the ear)-i don't think it worked but it made me feel like i'd won!!-I think thats when you realise you've been around horses too long!!!
Vicki

[Peace]

In that case, my advice is to tie their heads while tacking up, so they can't bite you! :)

[swerve]

I would whack a horse for biting me, those teeth are just too big to be embedded in my shoulder!

[*Sez*]

I once bit the pony back (on the ear)-i don't think it worked but it made me feel like i'd won!!-I think thats when you realise you've been around horses too long!!!
Vicki

:D That's fab! I giggled for ages!

[xhorse_riderx]

My friends horse down the yard is quite a vicious bitter and has taken chunks out.

When she asks me 2 ride him for the day i dont mind (believe it or not).
Anyone that is confident with him and shows him who is boss he wont bite!

I think you should just go into the stable when you tack him up and have a dont be cheeky attitude as long as your confident with what your doing!
the horses no whern your nervous and take advantage of that !

I hope this helps :):):)!!!!

[Smokous_Pocus7]

Hehehe yeah biting can be a problem! usualy i yell no, poke them on the nose, and sometiems even bite them to, i also open there mouth so they cant bite down, and like play with tht gets them aggrivated, and they usualy wont try it! i think every horse knows where to stop, before they go to far

[Styric]

Well I'll probably get pounced on for this... but my trainer believes biting and kicking are the ultimate no's, and if they try it you're supposed to 'kill them' (figuratively of course) so that they never ever think to do it again.

Huff up, be aggressive and simulate what the lead mare would do (usually a sharp kick in her case) with your hand or a crop. You have to time it right when they're trying to bite or it's useless and never EVER hit them on the head.

She explained that a little tap and a 'no' won't make them realize what a deadly grevious crime it is. It does take consistancy, but they get the point really quick.

I know it's not touchy feely, but I WILL tell you this. No horse in that barn kicks or bites. They're sweet, gentle, not at all afraid of anybody but even if you're leading a horse or two and pass directly behind them, their feet stay planted on their ground, and they don't even think of retaliation, just of making sure they're out of your way.

Even the stallion is that well mannered, and he's definetly stallionish. He doesn't put up with much.

[pengapenga]

I once bit the pony back (on the ear)-i don't think it worked but it made me feel like i'd won!!-I think thats when you realise you've been around horses too long!!!
Vicki

I have done this before too :) and it seemed to work as the horse did not bite me again :) maybe he was in shock that a human could do that! An old horse trainer told me this trick.

Frits has this habbit of taking a nip every now and then it is mainly a coltish thing to do in his case and a NO and tap on the nose works with him. He is getting much much better and I can see the signs and a "don't you dare Frits" usually gets the "what! I am not going to bite you" look :D Just to add on Styric point about about being very firm - I agree with you and if Frits persists with taking a nip then he will get a firmer reprimand, however Frits definetly knows why he got the tap on nose because if he does try and bite he gets his nose out of the way :rolleyes: :)

[Gemani]

Thanks guys for all the tips. I am not totally convinced about actually biting the horse back :eek: -it's a bit gross if you ask me! I will try to at least act more confident when I go in to tack/groom etc.

Nobody has really said if the horse will strike back if you suddenly hit it though. I don't really want it trying to lash out at me with shock!

I will be helping out tomorow so I will try out these ideas then.

[ponylover88]

...

[domane]

Ponylover88....... AND????? You can't just stop there....

"turns out he wasn't happy".....

Why? Did you find out why and did he ever cheer up? Your post was like the end of an episode of a soap opera..... you left us on a cliffhanger...

Pleeeeeeze explain????

[ponylover88]

...

[4_white_socks]

I'm very sorry in advance for the essay - I have quite a bit to say!

I help out at a riding school and have managed to calm down the biting and kicking (with the help of others? I don't know because I only go there once a week. Maybe it wasn't me that did it, but the ponies and horses I've tried to stop the biting and kicking, they've stopped... nearly).

My friend's horse is on working livery. She sees her once a week, like I do, because she doesn't live nearby. Let's call this horse 'Z'.

When Z was in the stable, if you came in she would turn her bum on you and sometimes kick. She wasn't too bad with the back legs but would still give it a go at times. If you even went in to groom her, give her a haynet, fill up her water, whatever, she'd turn her bum on you, ears flat back. When you tacked her up she'd chase you around the stable with her bum and then when you finally got her she'd let you put the bridle on, but when it came to the saddle she'd bite nastily and kick with her front legs. She got me a few times too. In the field, Z would come towards you, turn her bum and then walk away if you had a bridle. She even kicked her owner. She'd be a little devil to catch and it could take up to an hour to even get near enough. If you had a headcollar she'd usually be ok to catch but sometimes be nasty.

Now she rarely turns in the stable and you can tack her up perfectly with not even the slightest twitch of an ear. She'll let you groom her all over and plait her up in ridiculous colours - she still sometimes cow-kicks when you pick out her back feet though. You can go into the stable for any reason and she'll be perfect, not invading your space and generally being pleasant. She doesn't kick out or bite any more and she is an angel to catch with a headcollar. Catching with a bridle was a big problem - now you can generally catch her in a few minutes. She still misbehaves sometimes, but she was left to be nasty for so long and I've only been thinking about this and working with her for a short while.

The three main problems concerning this horse (not in any order):
1. Discomfort.
2. Loneliness.
3. Lack of respect in both parts.

'Fixing' the smaller problems:

Biting - Z bit whenever she was tacked up, sometimes at other times too. This was because of discomfort (read below). I decided it wouldn't be fair to smack her or yell at her for telling me that she's hurting. I simply said firmly 'no' and carried on with what I was doing. With a bit of understanding of her needs, I taught her not to bite, fairly and kindly, but still firm.

Kicking - Basically using the same method above!

Turning in the stable - (This wasn't my idea. See, people have helped! :p) Z had her haynet tied at the back of the stable, so generally her bum was facing you anyway. We tied her haynet to the front of the stable, next to the door, so you could go in and tack her up, tie her up or whatever with minimal fuss. Eventually she just accepted this.

Catching - Sometimes she wouldn't come over if you called, so you had to go in, and then the chase would begin. We started off by taking food down for her, not catching her and then going. Then we called her over, shaking a bucket and caught her. Then we got rid of the bucket and we just called her over and caught her. As this is still a problem we're working on, sometimes we shove a few treats in our pockets just in case.

1. Discomfort - this one is easy to figure out. Z loves being ridden, but she doesn't like being tacked up because of an ill-fitting saddle. I thought her saddle didn't fit her - she got fat, then lost condition, all the while using the same, unadjusted saddle. Of course that would have hurt! When a horse is agressive, what is the one thing you look for first? To see if the horse is in any discomfort or pain! I've often read on here how a pony bucked or acted agressively, then the owner checked the horses tack, back, teeth and any other places easy to injure or cause discomfort. They usually found something wrong pain-wise, once it was sorted out the horse was happy and angelic-like.

2. Loneliness - she had no one to bond with. People just treated her as 'that horse' and not as 'Z'. She was hit for agressiveness and considered mean. She wasn't really. She was just misunderstood. Not many people thought she was anything special, just another horse. Now I've understood that, I've treated her with respect (also, read below) and been kind and gentle, yet firm if needed. I've started to create a bond with her and seen her as the really nice, gentle horse she could be.

3. Respect - People never respected Z so the feeling was mutual. Now people respect her more and see her as a lovely horse, she respects them back and is a lovely, pleasant horse. Z has her ups and downs but is generally a lot better than before.

Treat these horses as individuals and respect them. If they're agressive due to pain or discomfort then don't punish them for telling you so. If they seem lonely and left out, maybe get to know them a bit. Love the horse for who it is, not who you think it is.

Don't think that it takes an experienced horse-person to do this. I'm 14 and have been riding and been around horses for merely 1 1/2 years! It's not a step-by-step instruction manual though - it's an example.

If you are still awake, I hope I've helped - apologies for the essay but I couldn't say little bits of it without explaining the lot.

Liz xx