Dressage levels and shoulder-in ...

[LindaAd]

I went to watch the area championships yesterday - Advanced Medium and Prix St George. They looked amazing ... I was pleased that a couple of the horses played up all the same - one spooked at the flowers beside the arena, one objected to the flying changes in the serpentine: it shows they're real live horses, and not some magical beasts descended from heaven ..

But there are two questions I'd like to ask. First of all, can someone please tell me the order of all the levels in British dressage. I've searched the internet and I can't find this information. Does it go like this?
Prelim, Novice, Elementary, Medium, Advanced Medium, Prix St George,
Advanced, Grand Prix
Or have I got them in the wrong order, or left any out?

And about the shoulder-in. I watched both classes doing shoulder-in, and I had the impression that the AM ones made a much wider angle with the side of the arena - around 45 degrees - than the PSG ones, which seemed to be almost on the track. I'd have expected it to be the other way round - can anyone explain.

After the prizegiving, they did a lap of honour, and the winner of the PSG did the most beautiful passage ,all the way round two arenas. It was very, very impressive.

Linda

[Casey76]

I believe the levels for BD go:

Prelim, Novice, Elementary, Medium, Advanced Medium, Advanced, PSG, Intermediaire I, Intermediaire II, GP :)

[Lgd]

:nod:

Casey76 has it right. Anyone can enter classes at any level except the FEI level tests (PSG upwards). You have to be a Group 3 or higher rider to compete in FEI level tests which means that you must gain points (over 60%) in an Advanced test beofre doing a PSG.

The correct angle for shoulder-in is about 30 degrees so that the horse is working on three tracks. Common problems are too much angle, not enough bend or only bend in the neck. A PSG level horse is far more established in collection so should be doing it correctly (then again so should the AM horses!). The one that won the PSG is certainly working well above PSG if it can hold passage for that long (it is not ridden in tests until Inter II).

[DITZ]

and passage is...?

[Lgd]

A very collected and very suspended trot - takes a lot of physical power to do it in a controlled manner, although most horse will do it freely at liberty - think hyper prancing idiot here :D

[DITZ]

thanks i can picture it now. ;)

[LindaAd]

:nod:

Casey76 has it right. Anyone can enter classes at any level except the FEI level tests (PSG upwards). You have to be a Group 3 or higher rider to compete in FEI level tests which means that you must gain points (over 60%) in an Advanced test beofre doing a PSG.

The correct angle for shoulder-in is about 30 degrees so that the horse is working on three tracks. Common problems are too much angle, not enough bend or only bend in the neck. A PSG level horse is far more established in collection so should be doing it correctly (then again so should the AM horses!). The one that won the PSG is certainly working well above PSG if it can hold passage for that long (it is not ridden in tests until Inter II).


Thanks very much for all that info, Casey and Lgd - I never knew how the national and international fitted together before. I think probably what I was seeing was distorted by my angle of vision - there's no way those people weren't doing it correctly - I was almost opposite the AM arena, and the PSG one was away to my left. I noticed that even in the arena in front of me, they seemed to be going down to the right of the centre line, and they wouldn't all be doing that either!


That's the other thing I wondered about: if a horse has points at a certain level, is he still allowed to compete at a lower level? Is there a certain number of points where it cuts off? Otherwise how could that horsethat could do passage compete in there?

Thanks again,

Linda




Linda

[Lgd]

It varies a bit between the the FEI and national levels.

Points are cumulative so it does not show on the horse's record what level each point(s) was gained at. There are cut-offs at which you can no longer compete at a certain level:
Prelim 37 points
Novice 74 points
Elementary 149 points
Medium 249 points
Advanced Medium 324 points
Advanced + FEI - no restriction except for PSG qualifiers where you need to have less than 400 points (you can still do non-qualifiers at PSG if you are over the number of points)

Once you have started in an Intermediaire I class (started, not gained points!) you are no longer allowed to ride in Medium qualifiers (can do non-qualifiers) with that horse.

To try and make that clearer I'll use the girls as an example:

Peri has around 180 points so is graded medium according to her points.
However she has competed at Inter I so she can't qualify for anything below advanced medium.
I had a slight advantage points-wise with her because she only did 2 affiliated novice classes and accummulated 3 points before starting elementary (I did 12 months of unafflicted with her first) so her points have generally run around 75 behind her actual competition levels i.e. if I'd done it 'normally' she should have been on around 255 which is about right - she competes Advanced Medium - PSG mainly and we've dabbled our toes in the water a few times at Inter I.

Tavia has around 80 points now so is graded Elementary. She is competing mainly at Medium with the odd Elementary to get qualifications, and she's done about 3 advanced mediums now.

Because Peri was the first horse I've competed at Advanced since 1994 I had to gain points at advanced (group 3 for rider) to do PSGs with her. Because I now have group 3 status Tavia will not have to gain points in Advanced first and could in theory (if I was daft enough :D ) go striaght in at PSG.

Clear as mud? :D :D

[LindaAd]

It varies a bit between the the FEI and national levels.

Points are cumulative so it does not show on the horse's record what level each point(s) was gained at. There are cut-offs at which you can no longer compete at a certain level:
Prelim 37 points
Novice 74 points
Elementary 149 points
Medium 249 points
Advanced Medium 324 points
Advanced + FEI - no restriction except for PSG qualifiers where you need to have less than 400 points (you can still do non-qualifiers at PSG if you are over the number of points)

Once you have started in an Intermediaire I class (started, not gained points!) you are no longer allowed to ride in Medium qualifiers (can do non-qualifiers) with that horse.

To try and make that clearer I'll use the girls as an example:

Peri has around 180 points so is graded medium according to her points.
However she has competed at Inter I so she can't qualify for anything below advanced medium.
I had a slight advantage points-wise with her because she only did 2 affiliated novice classes and accummulated 3 points before starting elementary (I did 12 months of unafflicted with her first) so her points have generally run around 75 behind her actual competition levels i.e. if I'd done it 'normally' she should have been on around 255 which is about right - she competes Advanced Medium - PSG mainly and we've dabbled our toes in the water a few times at Inter I.

Tavia has around 80 points now so is graded Elementary. She is competing mainly at Medium with the odd Elementary to get qualifications, and she's done about 3 advanced mediums now.

Because Peri was the first horse I've competed at Advanced since 1994 I had to gain points at advanced (group 3 for rider) to do PSGs with her. Because I now have group 3 status Tavia will not have to gain points in Advanced first and could in theory (if I was daft enough :D ) go striaght in at PSG.

Clear as mud? :D :D

It's getting clearer, Lgd - thank you for your careful explanation.

So that horse I was talking about could have had 390 points, and could have been competing at Inter II (hence the passage), and would have been OK competing in a qualifier at PSG level? But not at Advanced Medium (too many points) or lower. But for the rider it only matters that you have won enough to ride at the level you choose - it's the other way round ..? So that riders in a higher group can still ride their young horses in competitions at the lower levels.

Thank you.

By the way, did you notice your nice typo "I did 12 months of unafflicted with her first" .... ??

Linda

[Willingbe]

Group 1 Riders are not permitted to compete in Prelim, Novice and Elemantary Qualifiers.

Only Group 7 & 8 Riders are permitted to compete in Preliminary Qualifiers.

For Rider Groups refer to Rule 4:

"4. Grading of Riders
Riders will be graded in the following 8 groups:-
Group 1
Riders who have competed CDI or CDIO outside the UK or large tour in a CDIO
in the UK.
Riders who were group 2 riders before February 1st 2005 may apply to
revert to Group 2 after 4 years have elapsed
Group 2
Riders who have competed in a CDI or CDIO in small tour in the UK and/or
gained points at Inter I and gained points at Inter I and above in National
Classes (except Group 1)
Group 3
Riders who have won point(s) at Advanced level and PSG(including FEI
Young Rider classes) after 1 April 1994 (except Groups 1 & 2).
Group 4
Riders who have won point(s) at Advanced Medium level (including FEI Junior
classes) after 1 April 1994 (except Groups 1-3).
Group 5
Riders who have won point(s) at Medium level (including FEI Pony classes)
after 1 April 1994 (except Groups 1-4).
Group 6
Riders who have won point(s) at Elementary level after 1 April 1994 (except
Groups 1-5).
Group 7
Riders who have won point(s) at Novice level after 1 April 1994 (except Groups
1-6).
Group 8
All other riders."

[Lgd]

By the way, did you notice your nice typo "I did 12 months of unafflicted with her first" .... ??

Linda

:D We call affiliated dressage 'afflicted stressage' - hence unafflicted :D