am i being a crybaby? (yet another confidence issue)

[mayS]

Forgive me for this being so long. I have nobody else to turn to who might understand the things an adult rider goes through. Thanks for "listening" to my rambling post. :)

I ride at a local school barn 2-3x a week. They usually assign me this one "advanced beginner" horse who is driving me batty. I am a beginner who is comfortable trotting but I am not the strongest or best balanced yet. My goal is to become a safe rider and to try out dressage. My biggest fear is to have the horse run off and won't stop.

For the first time I got to try out a different horse; last week a horse was ill and when they rearranged things I got a cute little-but-stocky new mare. She was so perfect! Smaller, much smoother trot, obedient, steady, and no running off. And I finally relaxed while riding. But when I came to lessons tonight I was told that I can't have her again because she is such a good horse we can't "tire her out" because she's used in the kids & therapeudic lessons. After riding the good horse, it really made me realise how bad my regular lesson horse is. :mad:

My complaints:
She's the kind of mare who tests *everyone*. She proceeds to act up, sometimes going the opposite way you ask to see if you can pull her head back around. Sometimes she just decides she won't go into one corner of the arena (maybe an invisible mountain lion there?). When she's like that, it's a war to get her even close to it and she sidesteps the other direction.

She has an issue with her head/neck which I totally don't understand and can't seem to stop. She'll shake her head up and down. Sometimes she'll pull her head down quickly (this is at a walk or trot, not like we're jumping or anything). If you're not expecting it, she'll pull the reins right through your hands. It's also hard to hold onto reins properly when suddenly her muzzle is inches from the ground.

Tonight she wouldn't stop shaking her head up and down. I spent the whole lesson fighting it as it was almost constant. I asked the instructor to look at her to ensure there wasn't something wrong or a bridle part was twisted; instructor said the mare does this when she is "bored" and that it was my job to keep her from being so bored. Then it became my job to correct her every time she did it (I was told to kick her hard each time).

She spooks at all sorts of stupid things and her spooks are big ones. She's the kind of horse who has to run across the arena at high speed each time. She tossed me off once this way and she scared the pants off me a few other times. She's uncontrollable during bad weather, thunderstorms or lots of wind.

She doesn't stop when asked if she doesn't feel like it, no matter how hard you pull at her reins or try turning her to a stop. Very scary if it's during an trot I didn't ask for or one of her spooks.

When she feels like stopping her trot, she does so abruptly and without warning. Sometimes she'll just go into a trot without me asking, too.

She was being really bad one time, so the instructor insisted I carry a crop. Instructor told me to use the crop. I did and she took off like her tail was on fire, again refusing to stop. I was terrified. Eventually she ran out of steam on her own, but I've been too scared to use a crop on her since.

She has a history of running off on people and/or misbehaving with the reins. They've been putting what they call "check reins" on her (baling twine on each side of her neck from bit to top of bridle to saddle) because they know she is bad.

She's not getting any better, and the barn doesn't seem to have any plans to improve training. The attitude is that her misbehavior is just because I'm still learning how to handle horses and that dealing with bad habits will help me be a better horseperson.
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Each time I bring up my concerns to the primary instructor (one who has final say in horse assignments), I get the feeling she thinks I'm whining. Maybe I am? (be honest!)

That woman keeps telling me how good I am doing riding this mare, but I literally get *nothing* done during the lessons. Tonight I got to trot about half a lap total for the entire 1 hour lesson... the rest of the time I spent fighting her head shaking and neck bobbing. I'm physically up to trotting a whole session if the horse was cooperative; I could've gotten so much more done tonight. I was just so exhausted from the whole wrestling match, it felt more like an ordeal than a lesson.

Am I being too short-sighted in wanting to come and enjoy each ride without fighting fear and frustration constantly and at every lesson? And I resent that the instructor is expecting me to correct (train) this bad mare because "little kids also ride her and we can't have little kids having trouble with her". When the mare runs off with me, there is no sympathy. I'm told that "I can't allow her to do that because it could happen to the little kids." Like I wanted her to run off?!

Or am I looking for the easy way out and I'd never learn how to deal with difficult horses? Be honest! How much challenge is too much for a beginner? Should I stick it out?

I don't trust the mare ever since she tossed me off and her frequent spooking within the boring schooling arena isn't helping me to trust her again. Would you take lessons on a horse you don't totally trust?

Are these bad habits typical of school horses? Will I be facing a new set of problems if I sign up for lessons elsewhere?

I'm in my 30s but I have 2 discs in my lower back startng to go bad; I'm now under a doctor's care & I start physical therapy next week for it. I also have fibro myalgia so I get tired quickly. I didn't tell instructor this before and she never asked about my health. I could bring it up now as an arguement to put me on a less stressful horse, but I'd hate it when I have to use pity to get people to listen. Should I tell her? Or would it look like me just playing the pity-card to get what I want?

She said I might be able to try another horse if nobody else is using him, a new one the lesson barn just got in last week. I'm a little reluctant since he an unknown and he like a TB (may be fizzy). Based on what I've seen so far, he's got alot of energy. I'm looking for a horse who has more whoa than go right now.

I've been keeping my eye open for other lesson barns nearby that are good for adult beginners, but I've only found 1 other so far that does beginners (and they really emphasize jumping, not my thing).

This is all too much to worry about. I was almost in tears tonight. Something has got to change. I just want to enjoy riding without being a nervous wreck or being worn out by a bratty horse's antics. I don't want to give up lessons. What to do!?

[Chocolat_Horse]

Your not a cry baby :). From reading your post it sounds like you are having a very rough time. This riding school sounds like a complete waste of your time and if I were you I would find another riding school ASAP.

[jroz]

There's this quote that goes "Don't settle for less, because if you do, you get even less than what you settled for."

I think you have a situation on your hands that brings that quote to life. Seeing as though you're the one putting down the money to pay for these lessons, I do think you should reiterize your concerns to your instructor.
Your description of the horse constantly bobbing it's head makes me think it has got to be in pain somehow, maybe with the saddle fitting incorrectly, or reacting to some other injury.

That aside, with you being uncomfortable with the horse, and worried about your physical condition as well, you should explain that you feel your riding is not progressing while riding this horse, and you'd prefer to experience riding other horses, because riding a variety of horses makes you more well-rounded as a rider. Speaking from the perspective of having worked and ridden therapeutic horses, you probably had such a good experience with her, because they know their job very well, and they can sense people that may be riding with any disability, past or present.

Personally, I love riding thoroughbreds. I think sometimes people automatically see them as big/scary/fast...but they often have the best personalities, and can be some of the best rides you'll ever have.

[swerve]

Horses you find difficult challenge you and make you a better rider, so you need to find a way to work with what they give you. My second pony was horrible little brat with a sewing machine trot, a mean buck and a negative attitude to people, but with persistence I was able to get what I wanted from him. It made me a more determined, secure rider. Ride like you can't fall off and be strong

[Black_Topaz]

I agree with the others, sounds like you were having a terrible time on this horse! My suggestion is about the head bobbing that the mare is doing. Is it possible that someone has once been really hard on her mouth (yanking her all over the place or using very sharp commands)? I have ridden horses like that, if it is the case.

In my opinion (ie this might not work for you) if you are just standing still and she is yanking, pulling the reins out of your hands etc.. just let go. To me it sounds like she WANTS to get the reins out of your hands because she is afraid of what people have done to her with her reins. The mad carting you off around the ring might be another symptom of someone pulling too hard on the reins. It is possible that she runs to get away from the bit.

By the way I am not in any way saying that YOU were the one who made her like this, and I think you should be on a different horse if this one makes you so nervous. However, if you do end up on her again, try to have a very light contact, and try to just let your hands go with the movement of her head. (I do realize I sound crazy to tell you to let go of this apparently mad horse :p but maybe its worth a shot?)

Wishing you all the best!

Kya

[Sezza]

I agree that the riding school shouldnt be putting a beginner/nervous rider on such a difficult horse. This horse sounds totally scared to me. Do try letting go of the reins when he tosses her head, restricting her head movement will make the head shaking worse as she will fight.

However in all honesty, riding schools owe a huge duty of care to provide suitable horses for each rider. Your riding instructor does not sound great. Horses don't head shake because they are bored (its usually frustration or confusion), nor will kicking them in the ribs get you anywhere (nor will check reins or any other artificial device). Obviously this poor horse has been treated/ridden badly to be like this. And pain is always a possibility as mentioned.

I say demand a quieter horse you feel safe on (safety is a must!) or find somewhere else to ride.

[Tiber]

I certainly wouldn't want to ride this horse if I was a beginner!

You need to get your confidence up on the good horses first and then move on to the awkward ones (like her).

To be honest, it sounds like this school doesn't really care about you and improving your own riding ability - how can you learn new things when you're stuck doing basic control every time?

I'd try and find a different barn. Maybe try the one that concentrates on jumping and see what they're like - I'm sure they don't jump ALL the time. If that doesn't work definitely play the medical card - don't think of it as pity, think of it as a tool to get them to treat you better :D .

Good luck, and try to sort something out so you can actually enjoy your hobby.

[Skib]

You are not a crybaby. I have been weeping about lessons too this week. It's the injustices that are heaped upon us and our powerlessness in the teacher student relationship. Absolutely your situation.

Riding schools will always justify their allocation of horses. And it is normal (sometimes plausible too) to justify giving a student a difficult horse by telling them they will learn more by having to control it.
You have to remind yourself that you are not learning. And meanwhile the difficulty over the horse (not your riding ) is wearing you down physically and mentally. Many of us older people on this list have deterioration of the lower spine. If we ride at all, it may be against doctor's orders and if you want to go on riding, looking after yourself now must be the top priority.

In a riding school with many clients there is no one to speak up for you except yourself. If you like this school, you must raise the question assertively. Tell them that you have for a long time co-operated with them but that, if this horse is the only one they can offer you, you will have to ride elsewhere. Certainly tell them about your back and other health problems, asking their help in overcoming them. And if it doesnt go well, find another school. This isnt optional; you have to look after yourself.

By the way, I share your nervousness about thoroughbreds. But am nonetheless about to go and see one (a small one!) as a possible share. TBs are easier to sit on with a bad back than horses who are wider in the barrell. A lot of polo ponies are TBs these days, very responsive and manouvreable. A forward going horse is less tiring to ride. So provided this one looks safe, it might be your solution?
You set out the problem very clearly - and sound capable of taking good decisions. So we all wish you luck.

[Gill]

Riding is meant to be fun. Why put yourself through this?

I agree that difficult horses can improve our riding but if there is no pleasure in learning, why put yourself through it? After all we are no longer teenagers and 'now' is a very important time to make the best of.

Can you find somewhere else to ride and discover the joy?

[Wobblydeb]

I thought you had found a much better instructor MayS? What happened with that?

To my mind, the problem here isn't as much the horse as the instructor. With a decent instructor, they will a) put you on a horse suitable to your level and b) teach you how to ride it so that you can see it go reasonably well. You will always find some horses harder to ride than others, the main thing is to feel like you have achieved or learnt something when you get off at the end of the lesson - whether that is getting a nice active walk out of a lazy bones, or a clear round on a showjumper :)

[ajhainey]

As you have no other stables I guess you need to avoid an outright stand off/bad feelings. So how about a bit of give and take. Ask them when you would need to ride to get a different horse, a quiet one. Refuse point blank to continue riding that horse and play the back card - why not! But empasise you can be flexible with when/how often you ride, you just don't want to ride that particular mare any more. It should take the 'edge' off the refusal, and avoid bad feelings between you and the staff.

Or a compromise, you'll ride her once a week to continue your 'education' in tricky horses, but you get a ride on one of the quieter horses for your other 1/2 rides.

Have you seen any of the staff ride her btw? Ask for a demonstration and see if she really is better for them. If she is, then maybe they are right and you will get the hang of it in a while. If not then I would say they will be embarrased into admitting she is not suitable.

Suitability is in the eye of the rider, if YOU don't think she is suitable, then she isn't! You can't ride well when you are terrified every time :mad:

Good Luck!

aj xx

[intouch]

If I can come at this from another angle - I teach a lot of beginners, and I know how difficult it is to get the right horse. If they were machines it would be much easier. If it is too quiet, it won't go, if it is too willing, it mistakes the beginner aids and goes too fast.
Each horse will teach you a little bit more about the complex language, and while it is rewarding to ride something "easy", and you will certainly learn balance and skills, listening to what each horse teaches you will advance your learning in the long run.
Try to remember that horses are like mirrors, they reflect aspects of ourselves that we don't always want to recognise.
Instead of listing all the challenges your horse is setting you, try to rephrase it in terms of learning experiences she is offering you.
There are no perfect horses just as there are no perfect riders, it's all just one huge, neverending learning curve!

[LindaAd]

As you have no other stables I guess you need to avoid an outright stand off/bad feelings. So how about a bit of give and take. Ask them when you would need to ride to get a different horse, a quiet one. Refuse point blank to continue riding that horse and play the back card - why not! But empasise you can be flexible with when/how often you ride, you just don't want to ride that particular mare any more. It should take the 'edge' off the refusal, and avoid bad feelings between you and the staff.

Or a compromise, you'll ride her once a week to continue your 'education' in tricky horses, but you get a ride on one of the quieter horses for your other 1/2 rides.

Have you seen any of the staff ride her btw? Ask for a demonstration and see if she really is better for them. If she is, then maybe they are right and you will get the hang of it in a while. If not then I would say they will be embarrased into admitting she is not suitable.

Suitability is in the eye of the rider, if YOU don't think she is suitable, then she isn't! You can't ride well when you are terrified every time :mad:

Good Luck!

aj xx

I think ajhainey is so right - and so are all the other people who say you shouldn't be riding that horse. Yes, riding difficult horses can be good for your riding, but only when you're ready for that sort of challenge, when you're strong and confident in your position and your ability to control the horse .. And that's a point some of us may never get to.

I would certainly ask the instructor to ride her - then you'll really be able to see what she's like. I'd guess that a small part of what she does ( the changing pace when she feels like, ignoring the aids) is about taking advantage of an inexperienced rider; most of it isn't. The head-shaking might be because something's uncomfortable (maybe her teeth need attention), but it could also be a habit left over from a time when something was uncomfortable. In any case, she's not a suitable lesson horse. And while I agree with ajhainey about trying to find a compromise, I don't think that compromise should include riding that mare at all. she's not doing you any good at all.

I'd say at least go and look at the other barn, maybe watch a lesson there. And then look round - are there any others at all that you could get to, maybe by travelling a little further? But whatever you do, don't blame yourself! I think you're really brave to keep getting on to that horse.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Linda

[domane]

I agree with everything everyone else has said. You are paying the riding school to have an alleged enjoyable time so you should be offered a choice in who you ride. If they cannot offer you a choice, then I would find somewhere else. The instructor does not sound very compassionate or helpful and I think you need to have experience riding a lot of different horses to gain experience and restore your confidence.

To make you stick to the same one is very narrow-minded! Sounds to me like the mare is clearly uncomfortable with something and if the people who ride her have pre-knowledge that she may play up they may ride with a tight rein in anticipation and therefore increase her discomfort. It's a catch-22 and a shame.

I would try a few other places if you can to see how the horses and attitudes of the instructors vary.

Good luck and let us know what you decide and how you get on.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Peace]

What???! :mad: Lemme make sure I've got this right - you're paying these people good money for the privilege of schooling their rank horse so it won't hurt other people and they can make yet more money off using it in lessons. And you're whining when you complain about it, but since they're such great folks they *might* let you try out their new unknown quantity and see if it will make a lesson horse (or not)?

Try out the hunter/jumper barn. I love the one I'm at, and I will jump the day little winged piggies fly alongside as I go over the crossrails. :p Don't let the people you're currently with convince you that all lesson barns do as they do. My first instructor, the Marquise de Sade, ran the same head game on me - and it is *so* not true.

[ajhainey]

If I can come at this from another angle - I teach a lot of beginners, and I know how difficult it is to get the right horse. If they were machines it would be much easier. If it is too quiet, it won't go, if it is too willing, it mistakes the beginner aids and goes too fast.
Each horse will teach you a little bit more about the complex language, and while it is rewarding to ride something "easy", and you will certainly learn balance and skills, listening to what each horse teaches you will advance your learning in the long run.
Try to remember that horses are like mirrors, they reflect aspects of ourselves that we don't always want to recognise.
Instead of listing all the challenges your horse is setting you, try to rephrase it in terms of learning experiences she is offering you.
There are no perfect horses just as there are no perfect riders, it's all just one huge, neverending learning curve!

I get that, and from helping with beginner lessons I understand the frustration teachers can have getting everyone matched up and happy. Especially where the horse really is fine, and the fear is irrational. But they should be able, and WANT TO offer you a change when you reach the point where you are honestly afraid, have voiced your concerns and just don't want to do it anymore - be it for rational OR irrational reasons. It's your money, your body, your choice. Its a particular problem here because there are no other nearby stables. Otherwise, believe me, I would be a firm advocate of the showdown and/or leave. There is no excuse for ignoring your clients complaints.

To give an example of how I think it should work: the horse I currently refuse to ride is a perfectly reasonable novice mount, but he and I don't get on. He's 17'2, a little spooky at times and after a couple of falls I just really didn't feel comfortable so high up :) I rode him again, 3 more times in fact before admitting defeat and saying "right now I just can't ride this horse, find me another one". In the end I had to wait for a new horse to join the stables but thats ok, that's compromise - I understand they can't wave a magic wand and find my perfect horse. The new horse isn't perfect either (she needs keeping together, and flings her head round something rotten due to previous bad handling) but she's different and thats sometimes all that matters! I will ride the other horse again in a few months, maybe even sooner, but right now I said no and they found me something else to ride. It's not that the horse is 'bad' its just that I think I need a break from him, and to be honest, to my mind, that's the only thing thats important in this situation - whether _the rider_ feels comfortable or not.

What concerns me here is there seems to be no interest in the fact that a rider is unhappy with their horse and wants a change! There's a big difference between being occasionally told to stop being a wuss, get on with it and get that pony moving and every week being afraid of what might happen...

aj xx

[laura jeanne]

I had all kinds of excuses for staying in lessons that I didn't like. The horses were okay but I didn't agree with the instructor's style in almost everything.

I finally left and now have an instructor who is helping me get with the fundamentals that other instructors have just ignored- the basic position and communication with the horse. I used to read here on NR about the kinds of things others did in their lessons and wonder if I would ever be able to find one who would teach me the way I wanted to be taught

This barn did not advertise as a lesson barn, just boarding but I found out from my friend who also left my previous instructor, that lessons were available.

I didn't like hearing from everyone that I should find a new place to ride but I really knew it was the only solution. Do you want to waste your money, learn a lot of bad habits and be afraid and resentful and frustrated?? Well that's what I was doing and I think you are too.

It sounds like any change would be a good one. I hope you can just make the decision to move because even with another horse, this instructor does not seem like she is a very good instructor: no sympathy, not much instruction, ignoring your problems, etc.

Good luck, I hope to hear better news from you.

BTW, my in-laws live in St. Michaels, MD!!

[Lindsayanne]

May, I'll probably get shot for saying this here ;) but have you looked into buying a nice old tennessee walker or missouri foxtrotter? The gaits would be easy on your back and body and it's SO nice owning your own lesson horse. You wouldn't have to fuss over switching horses or worrying about what a bad rider did to them since the last time you rode. Older horses make such nice matches for first time owners and are usually priced very low.

I don't even know if that's an option- just thought I'd throw it out there. I know you're into riding as a long term commitment so just thought I'd make the suggestion. Having done all this in the wrong horse (buy horse, then start lessons) I have a little different perspective. :D

[hannah:)]

I don't see how you can be expected to learn and improve when you're scared of being bombed off with the whole time - been there, done that, learned nothing! I think some instructors forget what it feels like to be nervous about riding and behave insensitively as a result, as they see nothing to be afraid of. However, it sounds like this horse is behaving in a way that is hardly likely to make you any less nervy, surely the instructor should realise that!

I would ask for a different horse - maybe a quiet type for a few lessons to get back some confidence. If they say no, find a new place. Riding is meant to be fun, not some kind of SAS-style endurance test :) !

A decent instructor and some good lessons on a reliable horse are great for building confidence, that's what helped me out and I'm sure it'll help you too.

[AppleJacks1988]

No your not being a crybaby.

You want to ride you want to have fun. Your not there to not have a good time. They should put you on a horse that your more relaxed on. theres a FINE line between stupidy and smarts. I learned the hard way. I wouldnt want to ride a horse like that ever id be so frustraed id quit. But i dont think you should quit cause thats never the anwser if they wont put you on another horse and in which if they dont have enough horses thats there problem go to another stable. But they shouldnt tell you that your being a cry baby or whinnie because thats just rude people like your instructor are the reason i quit and ended up hating riding and horses. things are fine now i have my own i dont take lessons i go on lots of trails and just enjoy riding and life. And i think thats what it should be. If they dont switch you theres no reason to keep riding there sure your learning but your not having fun and then there's no point in it anymore.

<3 good luck.

[NSCHMIDT]

Forgive me for this being so long. I have nobody else to turn to who might understand the things an adult rider goes through. Thanks for "listening" to my rambling post. :)

I ride at a local school barn 2-3x a week. They usually assign me this one "advanced beginner" horse who is driving me batty. I am a beginner who is comfortable trotting but I am not the strongest or best balanced yet. My goal is to become a safe rider and to try out dressage. My biggest fear is to have the horse run off and won't stop.

For the first time I got to try out a different horse; last week a horse was ill and when they rearranged things I got a cute little-but-stocky new mare. She was so perfect! Smaller, much smoother trot, obedient, steady, and no running off. And I finally relaxed while riding. But when I came to lessons tonight I was told that I can't have her again because she is such a good horse we can't "tire her out" because she's used in the kids & therapeudic lessons. After riding the good horse, it really made me realise how bad my regular lesson horse is. :mad:

My complaints:
She's the kind of mare who tests *everyone*. She proceeds to act up, sometimes going the opposite way you ask to see if you can pull her head back around. Sometimes she just decides she won't go into one corner of the arena (maybe an invisible mountain lion there?). When she's like that, it's a war to get her even close to it and she sidesteps the other direction.

She has an issue with her head/neck which I totally don't understand and can't seem to stop. She'll shake her head up and down. Sometimes she'll pull her head down quickly (this is at a walk or trot, not like we're jumping or anything). If you're not expecting it, she'll pull the reins right through your hands. It's also hard to hold onto reins properly when suddenly her muzzle is inches from the ground.

Tonight she wouldn't stop shaking her head up and down. I spent the whole lesson fighting it as it was almost constant. I asked the instructor to look at her to ensure there wasn't something wrong or a bridle part was twisted; instructor said the mare does this when she is "bored" and that it was my job to keep her from being so bored. Then it became my job to correct her every time she did it (I was told to kick her hard each time).

She spooks at all sorts of stupid things and her spooks are big ones. She's the kind of horse who has to run across the arena at high speed each time. She tossed me off once this way and she scared the pants off me a few other times. She's uncontrollable during bad weather, thunderstorms or lots of wind.

She doesn't stop when asked if she doesn't feel like it, no matter how hard you pull at her reins or try turning her to a stop. Very scary if it's during an trot I didn't ask for or one of her spooks.

When she feels like stopping her trot, she does so abruptly and without warning. Sometimes she'll just go into a trot without me asking, too.

She was being really bad one time, so the instructor insisted I carry a crop. Instructor told me to use the crop. I did and she took off like her tail was on fire, again refusing to stop. I was terrified. Eventually she ran out of steam on her own, but I've been too scared to use a crop on her since.

She has a history of running off on people and/or misbehaving with the reins. They've been putting what they call "check reins" on her (baling twine on each side of her neck from bit to top of bridle to saddle) because they know she is bad.

She's not getting any better, and the barn doesn't seem to have any plans to improve training. The attitude is that her misbehavior is just because I'm still learning how to handle horses and that dealing with bad habits will help me be a better horseperson.
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Each time I bring up my concerns to the primary instructor (one who has final say in horse assignments), I get the feeling she thinks I'm whining. Maybe I am? (be honest!)

That woman keeps telling me how good I am doing riding this mare, but I literally get *nothing* done during the lessons. Tonight I got to trot about half a lap total for the entire 1 hour lesson... the rest of the time I spent fighting her head shaking and neck bobbing. I'm physically up to trotting a whole session if the horse was cooperative; I could've gotten so much more done tonight. I was just so exhausted from the whole wrestling match, it felt more like an ordeal than a lesson.

Am I being too short-sighted in wanting to come and enjoy each ride without fighting fear and frustration constantly and at every lesson? And I resent that the instructor is expecting me to correct (train) this bad mare because "little kids also ride her and we can't have little kids having trouble with her". When the mare runs off with me, there is no sympathy. I'm told that "I can't allow her to do that because it could happen to the little kids." Like I wanted her to run off?!

Or am I looking for the easy way out and I'd never learn how to deal with difficult horses? Be honest! How much challenge is too much for a beginner? Should I stick it out?

I don't trust the mare ever since she tossed me off and her frequent spooking within the boring schooling arena isn't helping me to trust her again. Would you take lessons on a horse you don't totally trust?

Are these bad habits typical of school horses? Will I be facing a new set of problems if I sign up for lessons elsewhere?

I'm in my 30s but I have 2 discs in my lower back startng to go bad; I'm now under a doctor's care & I start physical therapy next week for it. I also have fibro myalgia so I get tired quickly. I didn't tell instructor this before and she never asked about my health. I could bring it up now as an arguement to put me on a less stressful horse, but I'd hate it when I have to use pity to get people to listen. Should I tell her? Or would it look like me just playing the pity-card to get what I want?

She said I might be able to try another horse if nobody else is using him, a new one the lesson barn just got in last week. I'm a little reluctant since he an unknown and he like a TB (may be fizzy). Based on what I've seen so far, he's got alot of energy. I'm looking for a horse who has more whoa than go right now.

I've been keeping my eye open for other lesson barns nearby that are good for adult beginners, but I've only found 1 other so far that does beginners (and they really emphasize jumping, not my thing).

This is all too much to worry about. I was almost in tears tonight. Something has got to change. I just want to enjoy riding without being a nervous wreck or being worn out by a bratty horse's antics. I don't want to give up lessons. What to do!?


I don't belive your whinning. When you pay good money for a service you expect to get it. If you went to the store and bought grociers you would expect to get your money worth. If your riding 2 to 3 X's a week and having a horrid time It's time to do more than whine. Money talks, can you go elsewhere for lessons? You can't learn if have to fight every step of the way. This is a very smart old lesson horse your on. She has learned her lessons well. If she misbehaves enough no one will want her. Along time ago I had a horse problem like that. I worked harder than the horse did. I finally told the instructor I wouldn't ride that horse anymore, and if she insisted wouldn't be back. I work way to hard to throw money away.

[mayS]

You have given me good food for thought! Thanks for your wonderful replies. Though I'll probably not meet you in person, you all are good friends... I can come to you with all my horsey issues and you'll understand, help, and support me. :)

Maybe she is in pain?? One of the ways we were told to correct her is to yank on her reins ( a quick yank). When she wouldn't stand still for mounting, whoever was holding her would yank the heck out of her until she remained still. And they tell me to yank and kick at her at the same time when she starts her head-bobbing trick.

I am frustrated because it isn't my horse. I can't pick out a new saddle for her or call in someone to check her teeth and back. I can't retrain her because my only contact with her is during my lesson. We never have one-on-one time for her and I to work out our differences. And anything I might manage to teach her during my lesson would be gone by my next visit since so many others ride her constantly.

I feel bad for her because I don't think she is a bad horse. And I am admittedly a beginner rider who isn’t good enough to earn the respect of every horse I get on, so certainly that's to blame for some of it.

I don't think any of the employees there will bother to ride her. I sort of hinted that one of the instructors ride her, but I got nowhere. Really the one who needs to get on her is the instructor/barn-manager woman because she's the only one with the authority to make big changes in horse lineup, and right now she's convinced the horse's problems are the rider's fault because the rider (me and others) allow it to happen.

I would love to own a suitable-for-lessons horse of my own, but I've already filled up my paddock here at home with two rescue horses. If I got a new horse, one of my current two would have to be rehomed and that's a VERY difficult decision to make. :( The good news is that one of them is being rehabbed and can be ridden but doesn't know alot yet. I do have hope for him, but in the meantime I don't have a horse of my own to do lessons with.

I could conceivably save up the money and buy a really good horse... but I've got terrible guilt issues because I took in these two horses as rescues and not as purchases (it may not make any sense unless you've rescued a horse yourself). If I had to rehome one, it would have to be the quarter horse who is so unsound nobody can get on her back, even at a walk. She'll be hard to place anywhere, and I don't want her going someplace that'll neglect her. She's a good girl and is healthy otherwise and not in pain, so putting her down isn't an option. If only I had lots of money, I could keep all the horses I wanted and I wouldn't have to make such hard decisions. <sigh>

> "I thought you had found a much better instructor MayS? What happened with that?"

I ride with the Great Instructor on Monday nights. She is so wonderful and I get so much out of my time spent with her! But she doesn't have a lesson barn of her own. She fills in at my barn when the other instructors can't make it, so she's allowed to give her own lessons using their horses. Trouble is she doesn't get final vote on who can use which horse once the barn-manager/instructor lady says something, and BM/instructor has already ruled the really quiet ones are off limits except to handicapped and tiny kids.

The Great Instructor did get to see me ride on the other horse on Monday. She was very impressed how relaxed, confident & in control I looked. I was thrilled because I could keep trotting all over the place, over poles and in circles and through an obstacle course. It was so much more fun and rewarding.

One thing holding me back from leaving this stable is that the Great Instructor is teaching me there. If I left I'd have to do so tactfully, and also then I risk not being able to find a new place for Great Instructor to tutor me. So I tolerate an awful lot of the dumb stuff that goes on at the barn.

> admitting defeat and saying "right now I just can't ride this horse, find me another one". In the end I had to wait for a new horse to join the stables but thats ok"

How did the person who ran your stables take this? Did he/she understand? Did they call you once they got new horses in or did you have to keep checking back with them?

I'm still feeling a bit discouraged. If most horses are as totally unpredictable and difficult as this mare, will I ever be good enough to handle anything but ones so quiet you think they're asleep?

[notpoodle]

youre not a crybaby!! quite the contrary, i think its rather admirable you still get on this horse. i wouldnt, id ve far too nervous/scared to even get on her!

thats the troouble with lesson horses, theyre owned by other people and these people will do what they want with the horse :(

julia

[Mary Poppins]

I know how frustrating riding and horses can be, I have been reduced to tears on several occassions (I remember crying all the way through a dressage test not so long ago). I even gave up riding for 3 years as I was so scared of being hurt. However, over time I have come to realise that if you are scared of being bolted with then it is more likely to happen. If you are scared that your horse will play up, it probably will. A large part of riding has to do with confidence and attitude. I know that you can't just change your fears or forget about them, but I would really concentrate of things that you can do to make yourself feel more confident. For example, if your horse did bolt, what would you do? By thinking about situations that scare you and how you cope with them, you will be prepared for every eventuality. Postitive thinking is essential to every aspect of riding.

[Peace]

I'm still feeling a bit discouraged. If most horses are as totally unpredictable and difficult as this mare, will I ever be good enough to handle anything but ones so quiet you think they're asleep?

But most horses aren't like that, I promise. :) We have ten horses who are regularly used for lessons at my boarding stable. Of those, one is the "sleepy" sort (Silver, who's old and a rescue and being rehabbed, so she may change). One is an "old reliable" type - he'll go when asked, but not until. Three are what I'd term for "advanced riders" only, but not because they do any of the things you describe. They're just very forward-going and strong. The other five are nice, normal, well-adjusted cooperative equine-americans. ;)

I think the mare you've been riding probably has some teeth/back issues made worse by unsympathetic handling (not yours, the management's). But as you say, you can't really do anything about that. :(

[laura jeanne]

MayS, you say-

"and right now she's convinced the horse's problems are the rider's fault because the rider (me and others) allow it to happen."

That MAY be 100% true, but does the instructor tell you exactly what you should be doing to make things right? Just telling you not to let the horse do something is not helping.

Here's the kind of instruction you say you are getting:

When the mare runs off with me, there is no sympathy. I'm told that "I can't allow her to do that because it could happen to the little kids." Like I wanted her to run off?!

instructor said the mare does this when she is "bored" and that it was my job to keep her from being so bored. Then it became my job to correct her every time she did it (I was told to kick her hard each time).

She was being really bad one time, so the instructor insisted I carry a crop. Instructor told me to use the crop. I did and she took off like her tail was on fire, again refusing to stop. I was terrified.

Good grief!! that is not instruction! So you are told don't allow her to run off, keep her from being bored, hit her with a crop and who knows what else.

I really don't think that the Great Instructor's lessons once in a while are worth riding in those conditions. You can do better than that. I really do sympathize with your problem but the whole situation seems unfixable as it is.

[mayS]

You guys are great. :D Without you I'd either end up giving up on formal lessons or I'd keep riding the same horse with the same instructor and hate every moment of it. I hope one day I can return the favor to you. :)

I called the barn today & cancelled tonight's lesson. Now I just need to summon up the courage to track down and confront the barn-manager/instructor. (I really hate confrontations). Wish me luck!

[Skib]

Well done. We are all with you.
Maybe this should belong in a new thread but someone said to you (it is often said)
"Try to remember that horses are like mirrors, they reflect aspects of ourselves that we don't always want to recognise. "

This is a very common drop of wisdom let fall by riding teachers and I question it. First it is always said by teachers. I have never heard a rider say this.
Unless (forgive me Mary Poppins) one is practically perfect, we students have no good answer. And we cry because this is not criticism of our riding but a dig at our selves.
The accusation is that we are not only flawed, but we do not recognise our flaws - which are evident to the teacher since they are reflected in the horse. And we are told by a teacher who hardly knows us that these flaws are ones which we dont WANT to recognise. WOW.
My solution has been to ride at two different yards. While a teacher at one is lamenting my personality flaws and their affect on her horse, I have the satisfaction of knowing that the other horses I ride are unaffected. I have ridden 33 horses to date. Each horse comes with a history (of which I am guiltless). Why is it that only two (allegedly) mirror the flaws in my identity which I am unwilling to recognise?
I resent riding instructors or writers on horsemanship (whether a BHS instructor, IH Associates or Mark Rashid) when they start reproving their students/audience for the way we lead our lives or handle personal relationships. They deserve to be challenged because they peddle an illusion. It is possible to have a rewarding relationship and effective communication with a horse (or dog) when one is less than adept with human relationships.
Yes, I happen to be angry on this point. But anger as constructive human protest does not mean I am angry ever with a horse.

[ajhainey]

.
admitting defeat and saying "right now I just can't ride this horse, find me another one". In the end I had to wait for a new horse to join the stables but thats ok"

How did the person who ran your stables take this? Did he/she understand? Did they call you once they got new horses in or did you have to keep checking back with them?


I only really discussed it with my instructor, who was fine with it. They didn't call me (never do!) but the first time I showed up at the stables (I go down every couple of weeks anyway to say hi and see my friends ride) after she arrived - the first thing they said was 'hey - I've found a new horse for you to ride! come and meet her' and encouraged me to come back into my old lesson. What I think is interesting here is the situation is actually very similar - don't like current horse, can't ride others (in my case just too heavy :o ) and must wait and try a new horse in a few weeks. But the attitude is so different!
aj xx

[Peace]

Maybe this should belong in a new thread but someone said to you (it is often said)
"Try to remember that horses are like mirrors, they reflect aspects of ourselves that we don't always want to recognise. "

This is a very common drop of wisdom let fall by riding teachers and I question it. First it is always said by teachers. I have never heard a rider say this. . .
I resent riding instructors or writers on horsemanship (whether a BHS instructor, IH Associates or Mark Rashid) when they start reproving their students/audience for the way we lead our lives or handle personal relationships. They deserve to be challenged because they peddle an illusion. It is possible to have a rewarding relationship and effective communication with a horse (or dog) when one is less than adept with human relationships.

Skib - maybe we ought to put this in a new thread, but I just wanted to comment because I find the whole "mirror, mirror in the stall" concept one of the neater things about horses. :cool: I had never heard it from a riding teacher, though, and after reading your post I can understand how it could easily be used/received as very hurtful personal criticism.

I would think the "mirroring" phenomenon would happen more with our own horses - not one that we just ride once a week or so. I have noticed how completely different a schoolhorse can be with one student compared to another - but I think that sometimes just indicates a difference in horse-handling skills and isn't necessarily caused by the horse reflecting a personality trait of the handler's.

Still, it's been fun for me to watch my six year old horse, Quanah, change over the last year as he's worked with Leslie, my trainer. I've known Leslie since she was fifteen - she's twenty-one now - and Quanah since he was three. At the start of their relationship, I'd have to say neither even liked the other very much - they were certainly poles apart personality-wise. But the longer they work together, the more alike the two of them become. I can almost see Leslie looking out of Quanah's eyes sometimes! :)

Anyway, this is sooo far off the original topic, I'll cease rambling now. :o

[laura jeanne]

I can see how your horse could be mirroring your actions (not personality!). In my last lesson, I was trying to keep my horse to a slow jog. He kept either going into walk or speeding up into a faster trot. I couldn't seem to get right the advice of a balance between slowing with the reins and encouraging with my legs which I was practicing while the instructor was working with my OH (we have our lesson together).

Finally, the instructor told me that I was leaning back a little and to lean forward more so I would be straight. It turned out that when I leaned forward a little, my arms were going forward too! So she said to think about leaning forward (to be straight up) between my arms so that my elbows would stay back and be by my sides.

OMG- all of a sudden, a nice, steady, balanced jog with the horse perfectly happy! So he was obviously reacting to my imbalance and when I was correctly balanced, he could do what I was asking. The instructor then told me that this horse is easily ridden with no reins at all by people who know what they are doing (someday for me maybe!!!!).

I stayed to watch part of the next lesson where another girl was riding him. She had a perfectly straight posture and her elbows never left her sides and that same horse stayed in that jog for the entire 30 minutes, either nicely on the rail or nicely doing very narrow serpentines back and forth across the arena.

[Trewsers]

Find yourself a new riding school chuck! Don't put up with that, its ridiculous that they have a horse as naughty as that in a riding school where beginners are trying to learn and gain confidence. A riding school horse shouldn't be behaving like that or chobbing people off cos it carts off with them. Good luck finding another barn. :)

[pattir7]

Ok...let me first say...NO!! you are not being a crybaby! Life is too short and lessons are too expensive to spend one minute of it on a horse that you are in constant battle with and are afraid of. What the heck are they thinking?? Do they really put kids on this horse?? If so, RUN... I mean RUN to another barn...cause you are not safe!!

I won't say this horse is a 'bad' horse... just one that you are not ready for. She, very obviously HATES her job...that is why she is acting that way and no amount of 'punishment' from you is going to change that FACT. There is a very calm, safe TB mare at the barn I ride at....she is very safe...downright bombproof....but she does the bobbing thing with her head and yanks the reins from your hands if she can. You wanna know what she is saying?? She's saying 'I'm not liking this'. She is perfectly safe but because SHE no longer likes her job, my trainer is finding her a new one! :) She is now privately owned and ridden by one rider and is much happier. Guess what? I never see her trying to pull reins anymore... she is happy. Amazing, eh?

I have ridden my share of, shall I say 'unsuitable', lesson horses.... at first, I was afraid to ask for another horse...for fear I'd insult the trainer. But, came to my senses pretty quickly... I am paying for a lesson and in that lesson, I want to learn something while also feeling as safe as possible and if the horse I am assigned doesn't provide me that, I ask for another horse... I had to do that alot at the barn I was at previously... I got so tired of it that I changed barns and instructors and am MUCH happier now.

So, long story short... ask for another horse... let the trainer know you are not asking....you are demanding else you are quitting because you do not feel safe on this horse and it is not YOUR job to train THEIR horse...and if they had a clue, they'd realize this horse is very unhappy with her job. But you know what?? Given a choice, I'd find another barn, another trainer.... the fact that this one keeps putting you on this horse sends up BIG RED FLAGS to me. You can not and will not progress when you spend your whole lesson doing battle and in fear of what she will do... and obviously, the instructor can't see that...so, isn't much of an instructor in my book....

BTW, no need to play the 'pity card'. That's YOUR business not theirs....this whole situation is just wrong....

Patti

[pattir7]

I'm still feeling a bit discouraged. If most horses are as totally unpredictable and difficult as this mare, will I ever be good enough to handle anything but ones so quiet you think they're asleep?

Believe me....not all horses are like this one....and don't get to feeling like you can't handle anything but the quietest of horses. Heck, how long have you ridden this one?? You've handled her....and she sounds FAR from asleep.

At my barn, all of the lesson horses I've ridden are quiet, safe horses....easy to handle..but kinda oblivious to aids. I get the feeling that if the instructor weren't there, it would be real hard to get them to even move cause they have learned to tune out just about all instruction except the trainer's voice. I decided to lease a horse that isn't a regular lesson horse...so I could learn the proper aids...and suddenly, I knew what it meant to have a horse move off your leg!! It was a wonderful feeling...and it was such progress.

Now I am leasing a wonderful horse (read my post, Success!). He is just the right amount of challenge for me and has been a real confidence builder for me. My trainer has said he can be 'pushy' but he has never once been pushy with me. Now, he has 'tested' me...by refusing to do some things... and he's won that battle once cause I was too scared to push him. Tonight, he 'tested' me again...but I tonight, I won and I think he was happier and more confident because of it.

You just need to find a good lesson horse that you can make progress on. You deserve that...and don't let anyone let you think otherwise...

Patti

[SupaTania]

Ask if you coulda take a break from the horse. When i first started riding Bomber, he would drag me all over the arena, take advantage of my noviceness, and my lessons would end up with "keep him to the rail" being said 100 times. After riding a few other horses for a while, Ebony, Amanda, Mister, I finally got back on Bomber. Now we're inseperable. Our lessons progress very nicely. I've learned to control him from the beginning (the tone of the entire lesson is established in the first few minutes), and am starting to trot over crossrails and stuff with him. I would've never imagined this a couple of months ago.

Its your money, ask to ride a different horse for a while, promising you'll give her a shot as soon as you feel confidant enough. If they don't sympathize, try a different barn.