Laziness and napping! Update and straightness advice please!

[Drummers mum]

In case anyone is interested, Drummer was different pony yesterday, we were still having some issues with backing up and trying to get to the gate but I was tough and I got him to canter a full circle right lead :D It was a very sloppy jerky circle but we did it! Left is hopeless! :(

My problem partly is that he rushes and falls in round the corner and I am using outside rein to slow him and he ends up with his nose pointing the wrong way.

I figure this is alot to do with our straightness and circles. I find it really hard to ride him straight, he wiggles and pulls for home so ends up with the wrong bend on corners. He doesn't listen to my leg, he thinks it means go faster (when he listens! :rolleyes: ) and when I say fall in, we end up from a 10m circle to a 1m circle!! :eek:

Just on a plus point, he is now doing lovely halts, I can get a really nice halt trot and trot halt transition when he listens, does a half turn on the forehand and I just started teaching him turn on the haunches!! :D

[RodeoDreamer33]

English or Western it doesn't matter, either way if you pull on your outside rein your almost going to pull your horse off balance at the canter by changing the natural direction of his head which is following around his circle to the left. IT sounds confusing but what I'm trying to say is that if you were cantering around the ring to the left and your horse tried to cut the corners or fall into the corners instead you need to use the inside leg and inside rein to pick him up. Slight pressure with your inside leg and rotating your inside wrist towards the sky and then picking up with you inside rein should help. Also make sure that around the corners or where he likes to drop in, all of your weight is on the outside. You might also find that your horses inside hip is bowing out into the middle of the ring so you might hve to even take your foot out of the stirrup and reach it back to kick that hip back into position. Hope this helps! let me know!

[Jessey]

I agree with RD33 there, imagine that your reins are connected to his shoulders, if you pull the outside it will pull him in but by using the inside it helps to level him up, therefore re-balancing and helping him to keep on the circle.

Rushing or laziness and wobbling is often to do with balance and suppleness so it would probably be worth working on these a bit, there was a good article in either Horse or Your Horse last month about you have to achive bend and suppleness to get straightness - I'll try and fish it out when I get home later. You could do stretches and yeilding to help with the suppleness and work on lots of transitions to get him responsive to your leg, you want to be focusing on getting him to carry himself, if you always carry him round the circle he will just keep leaning.

One thing I leaned to stop Bo from leaning on circles was this simple trick, pick your circle (not using any rails or anything to guide the horse) and put them up to canter (can probably do it at trot too) give them the rein a bit, RIDE the circle but don't let them lean or correct them all the time (I'm an expert micro manager :D ) when they fall out off the circle (which is what most horses will do, and Bo will normally fall in when he has rails to bounce off but without micro management will fall out) turn them straight accross the middle of the circle, keep them cantering and carry on the same way, within a few laps the horse will realise that the 20mtr circle is acctually fairly easy compared to the half circle with tight turns across the middle.

If when you do this he leans in, still don't micro manage but focus on riding your circle, if he falls in, stop immediatly and we are asking for a canter to halt here :D half turn on the haunches and back to canter on the other lead, that normally helps them realise that its hard work if they lean in.

Another good one to help you stop having to manage him is to get in a big field, pick a spot and ride to it at a faily pacey trot, if he goes off track or slows or speeds up immediatly turn through 120 to 180 degrees (still trotting) during this turn and without said pony knowing about it (he just thinks your turning) you can manage him, slow/collect him if he's fast, push him on and round the corner at the same time if he's slow and re-set the line if he's wandering off. Its a bit of a funny looking thing to do but it should also help a bit with the napping, going away a bit, then back a bit, then away again will really get him to listen to you.

These do really work, honest, sorry I wrote an essay but I got carried away :D

J xx

[Drummers mum]

Thanks both of you, I will give your ideas a try tomorrow.

Jessey your essay is great! I love the open space idea but as we can,t canter a circle yet I will try your circle thing in trot! :D

[Dizzy]

It sounds as if he's unbalanced, and that you are using a little too much rien contact and not enough leg.

Try riding a large circle at one end of the school in sitting trot, get him relaxed and listening and then set up your canter aid so that you aim to go into canter up the long side of the school, if he runs into a flat trot, don't despair, pick up your circle and sit the trot again, insist that he's listening to your legs and riding towards your contact. Make sure you are in balance and that you're hands are a pair and you inside shoulder is slightly back and that you are looking in the direction you want to travel.

Use the circle to gain your composure and position, and practise breathing. The circle work will also show you how much leg (especially inside) you need to keep him from falling in.

When you set off into canter, keep in mind that you ride from inside leg to outside hand. Your inside hand suggests direction and your asking them to bend around your inside leg which should be near the girth, your outside hand should match your inside hand, but controls speed, and your outside leg which should be behind the girth is your accelerator.

Insist that Drummer is going forward off your legs and that you have a good contact, hold your contact firmly between your thumb and and pointer and don't give, if he leans use your legs, when he takes the contact, give with your fingers and verbally praise.

Don't rush things, do lots of work in sitting trot, do circles, figures of eight, serpentine, spiral circles in and out, then ask for short bursts of canter and slowly build up the canter sequences.

I personally don't ask for anything in canter until they can do it in a relaxed manner in rising and sitting trot - but I have friends that work different to me and have good results with happy horses, so I won't take offence if you don't agree with my advice :)

[Drummers mum]

Thanks Dizzy, thats really helped, I like "riding from inside leg to outside hand" its given me a visual and I think I am tipping forwards which will unbalance him more, I will think about keeping that shoulder back and do lots of trotting first (walk at the moment is lovely btw!)

I know I have to use a heck of alot of inside leg and it wears me out which is why I end up using to much rein and then he bends all wrong and it falls apart! Practice I think! :rolleyes:

I will get going today and see how we go! :D

[Jessey]

Oops, I forgot to say on the second circle game its essential that you always turn to the outside of the circle (silly me thats the whole key to it and I forgot to mention it :p )

J x

[cvb]

Dm

do I remember seeing cones in one of your "riding in the field" piccies ?

if so, mark our a big circle/square with some of them. Now you are only every having to ride a quarter of the circle. If that goes wrong, you just correct up to the next cone and start the next quarter ;)

Also - you can use these cones in walk to help with the "leg means faster" thing. As you approach the cone, put in on your inside and ask for halt. Then just move inside leg back slightly and add a little pressure. he should move away from it. If he doesn't, then tip the head very slightly to the inside. N.b. He's not sposed to walk forwards ! The leg aid is just asking for a yield from the back leg... So if he walks forwards, ask for halt again, and apply inside leg again.

Don't "escalate" the aid, just repeat it... he'll get it.

Initially just ask for a couple of steps from the back leg and then walk forward in a curve round to the next cone. When you get a couple of good steps, on a couple of consecutive cones, change the rein and try the other way..

got more ideas for this sideways stuff when you've tried this. Just let me know when you want them ;)

[Drummers mum]

Hang on, bit confused. Do I ride up to the cone so its in the way or am I trying to get him to side step round it. Sorry to be dumb :o

I like your ideas though, loads of cones at ours!!!

[cvb]

DM

if you are riding circles you can choose whether to go inside or outside the cones - its simple to give you a mark of each quarter of the circle ;)

When you are doing the turn on forehand exercise, you want the cone INSIDE you. Don't get too close as he still needs to turn his head, even if he is NOT walking forwards ;)

So walk up to the outside maybe 1m away.

Again it is to give a focus point, tho if he insists on forward motion you can be a bit sneaky and use it as an obstacle as well ;)

The other thing is that he will "learn" the exercise, and start to expect a halt and turn as you approach. Now we get really sneaky... as you approach the come you don't ask for the halt but you do just put the inside leg on. Keep the walk temp the same, and he should just step across for a stride or two with his bum, then ride him forward and straight again. (The inside leg does not have to be miles back - just a fraction).

This is a bit of an unconventional way to do "lateral work", but its using a simple principle and a simple aid. We can refine it from there ;)

[Drummers mum]

:D I get it! Right I'm off to practice, see ya later!!

[SmokeKandeeBar]

my horse was kinda doing the same thing, she would cut the corners and ignore my leg and my response was to put my hands down and tug with the inside rein, that was a bad mistake it was just making it worse...

What my trainer said to do, which works great now, is to bend with the inside rein, you have to have your horse bent to the inside in order to have a successful canter. Make sure your hands are up not down, and make sure your not holding the reins really tight, pulling on their mouths only makes them want to go faster. Gently pull smoothely and slowly with the inside rein just by pulling your elbow back, and don't jerk it, it has to be like elastic, when he starts to bend his head to the inside, push with your inside leg to get him over too, and if he still doesn't listen really pull the inside rein and make him listen to you, you also have to balance it with some outside rein and a little outside leg to keep him straight. Its hard to explain you don't want to jerk on his mouth it has to be rubbery and let your hands move with his mouth, also lean back, this helps alot, it will help him get off the forehand and pushing from behind. This really works for me, I think the four key things are, bend, your hand position, your legs, and leaning back. My horse canters like a dream now, and shes only three years old. just a month ago before I was doing this she would crash my legs into jumps go crooked, ect ect. I hope I helped you, I tried to explain this as best as I could!