Does Baling Twine break?

[Skib]

I've taken this question from chapsi's thread. Hope she will forgive me.
chapsi, they are right. No one rides or learns anything without making mistakes. It is handling the mistakes that matters, and you did great.

Two people describe horses not breaking baler twine. As a newcomer to riding I found the baler twine rule incomprehensible.
You learn a special BHS slip knot for tying horses and learn to tie the rope to loops of baler twine which are supposed to break.
But modern baler twine is orange plastic of some sort, not natural fibres as it must have been before the war. I cant break it. Can anyone?
Has anyone ever seen a horse break the twine?
And if not, why do we use it? Apart from the fact that it doesnt rot so everyone can drive around in the rain with orange loops hanging from the side of their horse box?
And why was it OK in Colorado USA for the trail horses to wait tied by their leather reins directly to a wooden rail? But not here inthe UK?

[Esther.D]

Yes, Rupert can break baling twine (of the orange variety) with a quick flick of his head..and he is only 13.1hh and under 400kg but it breaks immediately without even any real effort on his part. Little so-and-so has learnt that if he is tied up to baler twine he just snaps it with a flick of the head and wanders off :mad: So he has to be tied with someone stood at his head to stop him, or tied in the stable. I have seen loads of horses break baler twine easily so I wouldn't worry too much, in fact I even had a 13.3hh who used to snap leadropes as well if not tied to baler twine, one good lean back and twang!the leadrope snapped....

Reins question -
a. it'll snap your leather reins if it breaks away, hence leaving you without reins!
b. it jags the bit in the horses mouth causing injury in some cases...and puts a lot of pressure on the poll as well before the leather snaps..again possibly causing injury.

I personally cannot snap baler twine (or leather for that matter), but the ponies certainly can (but they are many times heavier and stronger than me!) and baler twine definiately snaps easier than leather.

[Jenni]

I always half the twine just to be on the safe side. you can split it so do that then tie it on. I have seen lots of horses break the twine.

[drookitsheep]

Agree with Esther - horses can break bailer twine really easily if they pull back when they're tied up for example.

Cheaper to replace bailer twine than a set of reins, and as Esther says, it's much easier on the horse too.

[notpoodle]

i was wondering that as well, as i have never seen it snap :rolleyes: i think it snaps more easily if you 'untwist' it a bit. its weird, in germany nobody ever tied their horse to balertwine, yet in britain everyone seems to do it (including myself). im also not convinced by leather breaking, to be honest!

julia

[Murphs]

yes, i've seen a few horses break the baler twine. Agree - i can't do it myself but as Esther says, think of the strength of a horse compared to us. It's there for emergencies - ie. if the horse panics and tries to take flight it allows him to do so - mind you be careful what you fix it to, i've also seen it not break and the horse take the baler twine, the ring and the wooden panel that the ring was fixed too with her and then panic more cos there is now a monster at the end of the leadrope :eek:

[horsey1]

yes, i've seen a few horses break the baler twine. Agree - i can't do it myself but as Esther says, think of the strength of a horse compared to us. It's there for emergencies - ie. if the horse panics and tries to take flight it allows him to do so - mind you be careful what you fix it to, i've also seen it not break and the horse take the baler twine, the ring and the wooden panel that the ring was fixed too with her and then panic more cos there is now a monster at the end of the leadrope :eek:

My horse had the farrier last week and he tied onto baler twine he pulled back :rolleyes: and took the twine the ring and the post with him :eek: so it never broke there

[Ginger Thing]

Last week my friend's horse pulled back and broke the metal clip of the lead rope clean in half! We never did find the half that pinged into the air! The baling twine was still intact.

[Zingy]

Last week my friend's horse pulled back and broke the metal clip of the lead rope clean in half! We never did find the half that pinged into the air! The baling twine was still intact.

Mine did that a few weeks ago for the second time. He's also broken tie rings and pulled tie rings out of walls. But I don't think he's ever broken baling twine :rolleyes: I try and use quick release elastic tie things most of the time instead - it's much safer. Failing that, as someone said, cut through half the baling twine first.

[Bay Mare]

We were always taught to untwist the baler twine before tying a horse up to it as it doesn't always break.

Saff can undo herself, she can also snap the baler twine BUT that means that she still has the lead rope dangling which she doesn't like so she's perfected the art of snapping the lead rope clip (she pulls right to the end of the rope so it's taut, leans back on it and then flicks her head up). I've now gone through FOUR lead ropes, I have no idea how she does it ... clever little mutt :rolleyes: It's not like she ever goes anywhere (or very far), she's done it before and we've not even noticed until it comes to put her back in the field as she's still stood at her haynet snoozing :)

[Esther.D]

Its funny how some seem to break it easily and yet others have had incidents where it hasn't broken...maybe there is a knack/angle to it..or maybe different types of baler twine? Certainly ours can manage it far too easily :rolleyes: and it is usual thickness new baler twine (well new as in straight off a bale rather than ancient stuff).

[NSCHMIDT]

I've taken this question from chapsi's thread. Hope she will forgive me.
chapsi, they are right. No one rides or learns anything without making mistakes. It is handling the mistakes that matters, and you did great.

Two people describe horses not breaking baler twine. As a newcomer to riding I found the baler twine rule incomprehensible.
You learn a special BHS slip knot for tying horses and learn to tie the rope to loops of baler twine which are supposed to break.
But modern baler twine is orange plastic of some sort, not natural fibres as it must have been before the war. I cant break it. Can anyone?
Has anyone ever seen a horse break the twine?
And if not, why do we use it? Apart from the fact that it doesnt rot so everyone can drive around in the rain with orange loops hanging from the side of their horse box?
And why was it OK in Colorado USA for the trail horses to wait tied by their leather reins directly to a wooden rail? But not here inthe UK?

Baling twine will not break as a rule, even the stuff made of natural fiber won't break easily. The natural fiber stuff will rot in time. However I'm sure with enough force like a horse pulling it will cause it to break. I have never used baling twine on anything except hay. The reins using for ties is a bad idea. That has the potential for injury written all over it. Aside from the pain of the bit and bridle the tangle issue once the horse is free and running from it new painful experience

[Harry Hobbes]

Has anyone ever seen a horse break the twine? Baler twine is sometimes used in pack strings when the horses/mules are tied head to tail in series. If an animal pulls back hard, the twine breaks, rather than injuring the horse in front. This is particularly important in rough country, so that one animal stepping over a cliff doesn't take the pack string with it.

Generally, twine will be used where one wants the animal tied fast with something that will break with extreme pressure (such as an animal pulling back). And baler twine, whatever the material has a finite tensil strength much lower than a typical 5/8" lead rope.And why was it OK in Colorado USA for the trail horses to wait tied by their leather reins directly to a wooden rail? Because the traditional colt starting methods still used today include a) training each horse to stand tied for several hours, and b) yielding to pressure on the head. In other words, they tie their horses reins to a rail/post because they feel that the level of training results in very low risk of injury to the horse.

You can see this if you visit a typical horse trainer in the western U.S., where the trainer will saddle all the horses to be trained that day first thing in the morning, and then tie them side by side to the rail. The trainer then takes each one in turn for training throughout the day, and puts each horse back on the rail after training. The upshot is that every horse receives several hours of "stand tied" training each training day. The training result is that each horse is completely at ease standing tied for hours.

Best regards,
Harry

[virtuallyhorses]

Not only does it break (snap), but it also breaks down (slowly admittedly but if you break up the fibres it is a little better) and comes in a variety of colours and can be used to cut other bailing twine :) So some of us have green or blue strings flying from our trailer :D

Polypropelene bailing twine has a measurable tensile strength - this is generally measured as 'knot strength' - general purpose bailing twine used for small square bales is around 60-70kg - easily in a horse's capability to break. Even if you happenned to get some twine used for large round bales, the knot strength is around 200kg - still well within the range of a horse to snap.

[xhorse_riderx]

My horse can break balling twine !! :):D:):D:)

[Zingy]

Polypropelene bailing twine has a measurable tensile strength - this is generally measured as 'knot strength' - general purpose bailing twine used for small square bales is around 60-70kg - easily in a horse's capability to break. Even if you happenned to get some twine used for large round bales, the knot strength is around 200kg - still well within the range of a horse to snap.

But still, seemingly, stronger than leadrope clips, screws holding tie rings, and posts. Until of course you want it to be stronger than any of these items, in which case it will, undoubtably, snap :rolleyes: :D

There must be a knack to it. Yog does exactly the same as Bay Mare's Saff - pulls back until he feels pressure, then rears and snaps his head back. The leadrope clip goes rather than the baling twine. I'm glad he's not the only one who manages it :D

[Wobblydeb]

I wonder if ability to break twine is more to do with the horses neck strength than their overall weight? So for example do Esther's ponies actually have more strength than a slender TB?

I have to admit I worry about bailer twine breaking, but thanks for the info virtuallyhorses - I like things with numbers attached, I can understand that :)

The best I saw was my potential loan horse - the owner popped the lead rope through a bailer twine loop but never tied it. Obviously her horse was very good - and more interested in the hay net in front of it, than wondering off anywhere.... :)

[Mary Poppins]

My old loan horse used to break his baling twine ALL the time. He was headshy and used to pull away suddenly and break free. When I lost control of him at a show I attempted to tie him up to the trailer, but each time he just pulled away and broke free from the baling twine.

I do agree that it takes quite a pull from a horse to break the twine but it can be done.

[Silvia]

Where I live we never tie horses to baler twine. On the contrary - we have a rule to ONLY tie horses to something solid that won't give way easily. Horses that have a tendency to pull back will learn that they CAN get away by acting up. In that case you lose the point of tying the horse at all, if you can't make it stay where you want it. :D I always use a safety leadrope with a clip at both ends so I can release the horse if it panicks. But then its up to me to decide if it wouldn't be more dangerous to let her get loose. (This is a yard is close to a busy road, with lots of children around the place so that could cause an accident !) On my yard horses that are tied up are not to be left unsupervised at any circumstance and so far we haven't had any problems.

[Drummers mum]

Its interesting how people differ! I use bailer twine but I sometimes just throw the lead rope over the door, poor Drum is to thick to notice hes not tied up and will stand there for hours! :rolleyes: :D (I take that back, my ponies not thick, just well trained! :cool: ;) )

So some of us have green or blue strings flying from our trailer Gimme gimme gimme!! do they do purple? lol! :D

[Jenni]

i understand what harry hobbes has said about training them to stand tied up, but the bailing twine is used as a precaution if the horse spooks and uses its natural flight instinct.

If it pulls back and cant get away it will then panic and that can lead to all different kinds of difficulties.
its okay training them to stand but you can not take the natural reaction of fear away. and with fear comes a reaction of trying to get away from the big scary butterfly ( as one of my old horses did!! they have big teeth them butterlfy's!!)
As said though some of the cheeky devils learn a quick tug and freedom beckons but i would always tie to twine.

[virtuallyhorses]

I actually wonder if it has to do with technique - the difference between those who can snap and those who tend to tear the barn down and still have bailing twine intact, that is. Perhaps those who pull back slowly and use brute force would also encounter some stretch in the twine - which may mean the other bits have more pressure on them and they break first and\or the knot has time to tighten. Whereas a quick snap would work differently.

I guess it also would be interesting to measure the the tensile strength of the structures. A rail with loose nails (that has been pulled against or kicked or whatever over a period of time ) of course will probably come apart more easily than a 60kg tensile strength bit of twine so I guess it's all case-by-case stuff. You could probably do a whole forensic case study on each incident and measure all the forces - if you're really into that sort of thing :)

Where are our physics people? I feel a project coming on...:D

[pengapenga]

I am one of those who tied my horse up to baling twine and he spooked and pulled back and the baling twine did not snap :rolleyes: which surprised me as Frits is a big strong horse. Maybe it was just a bit tougher than the usual stuff :rolleyes: :). I have seen horses snap baling twine, it just seemed on that day the twine was the exception to the rule :)

[Skib]

I really enjoy all the replies to this thread. Including the technical stuff. And I've learned a lot.
Instinctively I'm with Harry. Horses do what they have been taught to do. These are Colorado horses standing safely tied.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/Skib39/Tack%20and%20Safety/coloradotackweb.jpg

(If I lived in the States, I'd buy a horse tomorrow.)

[Mehitabel]

we use these little elasticated whatsits from robinsons now, instead of string. they look much nicer around the yard, and they have a plastic snap so that they open there if something happens, and can be put back together.

i'm all for horses learning to stand - but when they scratch an ear and get a foot caught in the rope, to put their head under the rope and get stuck - i want something to give before their necks do. pulling back, i've found, is much less often from bad manners or 'i've learned how and i don;'t fancy being tied here any more' than an accident or a genuine fear reaction. however well trained they are, you can't squash every single instinct.

[sidesaddlelady1]

The idea of using baling twine because it would break comes from the days when it was made from jute or hemp. Modern Baling twine is made from similar materials to climbing rope and is not intended to break so is dangerous to use for tieing up. You can buy rolls of jute string (the hairy scratchy stuff) if your hay and straw comes with the modern stuff. or use a head collar with collapsible buckles ("Fly-free" head collars)

[Tangle]

Fifi was tied to baling twine, had a shock (cold water on her dock :o) and pulled back in a hurry - she broke 2 brass rings and three bits of leather on her head collar, but the baling twine was intact :rolleyes: That was twine off a BIG hay bale (c. 2m x 1m x 1m)

Now I'll either split the twine or use the green cotton garner's variety (usually 3 lengths plaited up) - both of which I know she can break if necessary.

this makes Fifi sound very bad - she's really pretty good and it takes very little pressure to encourage her to stand. But I'd rather she broke the twine when startled than did herself an injury....

[Tiber]

I've seen a horse pull the ring out of the wall, and Hon has broken two leadropes and countless bits of string. She has also learnt how to untie herself - the number of times I would be mucking out and someone would shout that Honey was loose... :rolleyes: Once I went out after finishing her stinky bed and realised that she wasn't tied up and no-one had noticed!

I reckon it probably depends on all sorts of things - I know the times the rope went it was because the twine knot had wedged itself into the rope and split it. The ring was probably a bit loose when that came off - it looked like it had already been re-attached a few times to the same bit of wall. All the other times the twine has broken.

(This makes her seem really bad - she isn't really! Probably broken the string about 6-8 times in 16 months, once when a stupid person threw the canvas top over a grain lorry towards her and the weights on the edge of the canvas smacked against the side of the lorry :eek: - all the horses on the yard broke the string at that, except for the one at the end, who hid round the corner while still tied up!)