Rushing Before and After fences

[HopeLock]

I'm having problems training a horse at the stable I ride at. he is almost a perfect gentleman when you ride at a walk, trot and canter, and when you hack him. but when you try to jump him he rushes the fences and afterwards he doesn't come back and he is completely wild. We have tried everything but nothing works. If you put him in a curb he gets extremely angry and hardmouthed. he also tries to bite people and horses around him. dose anyone have any Idea what i should/could do? cause I am completely lost on this. PLEASE HELP!!!!! i need all the tips/info i can get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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A horse can lend you his speed and strength when you ride upon his back. But a wise rider knows that this is only a loan.

[ros]

It sounds as though this horse has had some nasty experience jumping - either painful or very scary. If he's perfect in every other way you can bet your bottom dollar he isn't just being awkward or stupid. Is it absolutely essential that he should be made to jump? Personally I really would lay off if possible and let him do just the things he's happy about. If he must be forced to jump, then you'll have to be very, very gentle with him. He should be checked over by a vet or physiotherapist as well, in case there's some damage somewhere.

[msp]

Sounds like case for a horse whisperer...

Have you seen Mike Peace or Kelly Marks work. I suspect it would help to do a load of ground work to really build the horses confidence - if he has to be forced over, he will just panic and rush!

Pat Parelli's book also has some interesting ideas in it.

Good Luck

[horselover]

two secenarios- either your horse absolutely loves jumping and gets overexcited and uncontrollable or hates jumping and gets frightened and uncontrollable. I can't tell you which one is your situation without seeing the horse.

But I can tell you that a horse who is excited about jumping will have his ears pricked forward, hold his head up, not have the whites of his eyes showing, and there is something about the way horses who love jumping move, even when they are rushing fences. It's very diffficult to describe- it's just their body language doesn't signal fear.

I rode a horse who loved to jump, and he had a habit of rushing fences. He was new to jumping- only 5 years old- and I was new to jumping too. Actually, I learned on him. Anyway, this is going to be a long post, but it has to be for me to explain this right.

If you are completely sure that the horse is not afraid of riding(if he is, lay off jumping and don't so this excercise because it won't work), then put up a short crossrailr.

Trot your horse to the 1st crossrail at a slow, easy pace- DO NOT ALLOW THE HORSE TO RUSH TO THE FENCE! Keep doing half-halts and use your posting to slow him down. If your horse(this was Rascal's favorite thing to do:rolleyes: ) tries to leap off by taking the long distance, then shoot your legs forward and give no release over the fence. make sure to still follow the motion and not yank the horse in the mouth, but by not giving a release, you are telling the horse that he wasn't supposed to jump.

When you land, bring him back from a the canter as soon as possible. This next is very important. (by the way, you should set the jumps close enough to the arena wall so that there is only about 10-15 strides to the wall after the jump. ) Keep going in straight line as you ask for the trot- don't turn and don't circle. As the arena wall comes up, ask for the halt, whether you have gotten the trot or not. If the horse rams into the wall, well, he should have listened to you because you tried to tell him to stop.

At the arena wall, turn the horse around and head straight at the fence. (if you have a large arena, you might want to do this on the short side) Do the same thing as before- don't let him rush and head to the wall after the jump.

Keep turning and going at the jump until the horse does it reasonably well- then make sure you praise like crazy because praise is much more effective than discipline.

Do this only at the trot for a few sessions, and only do the one fence. After the horse does the one fence at a calm trot without rushing and can land and go back to a trot within 2 strides, then add the second fence. 4 easy strides from the first crossrail, set up a second crossrail a little higher than the first. (you need to adjust your distance from the arena wall to match the second fence). make sure to warm up using only the single fence first, repeating the same steps as usual. Then set up the seond fence.

go into the line at an easy trot. 4 strides is enough to get back to a trot from a small fence- he can do it. you need to ask in the air by pullling slightly on the reins as you are extended over the jump- just like you would ask for a lead change over the jump. When you land, immediately sit up and ask for the trot with the reins and your voince. Make him trot to the second fence.Jump the second and come back to the trot, go to the wall and halt. Turn around and do it again.

You are teaching the horse to listen to you. He needs to wait for you to tell him when to jump, he needs to wait for you to tell him what direction to go, and he needs to wait for you to tell him at what speed. You can't jump a horse if he doesn't learn these things. But you need to remember that horses aren't born knowing this- they need to be taught in a clear way that they can understand. Don't get upset at this horse- have patience and take your time. I spent months of lessons working with Rascal(only to have him ruined by another "trainer", but that's another story.) in order to get him to stop rushing fences. he was so excited to be jumping that he wanted to do it now!:)

Another thing you need to do is roundpen work. Establish a relationship with this horse(use the methods taught by kenny harlow, john lyons, frank bell, etc.). Become the dominant horse in the relationship. earn his trust. This is key- I did this with rascal too, to teach him that he needed to listen to me and that I was in charge and it also established communication and trust.

If you want more ideas on this- I have a ton!! But this post is really long alredy, and I don't know if you are interested in hearing my other ideas! :D But if you wnat more, then let me know. Or if you have nay problems with what I said.

[HopeLock]

Thanks for the tips. I'll try them as soon as possible. This horse (Luke) loves to jump! he gets very excited, and tries to rush thhe fence. I can stop him from rushing before the fence but he gets the bit between his teeth and its tuff to bring him back. I've been training him over gymnastics, aand that helps a lot because he doesn't have enough room to canter, but when we go over single fences hes nearly impossible to bring back.

[floppy]

if a horse runs at a jump adn soon as it lands runs away formt he jump really then it is very likely the horse is actually scared of jumping..ive seen hroses ecxited by jmping but if they act really wild afterwards then chances are its scared stiff.
i sugegst also you maybe watch this horse being jumped by someone else so you can see yourself what he looks like jumping and his face reaction.
alot of gridwork can help with slowing a rushing horse...a harsher bit will only cause more pain and make matters worse...
so maybe you should go straight back to the beginning with trotting poles and slowly spacing them apart so you can canter over them...then use small jumps that can fall easyily and are like cavellti...
bearing all that i hope you wear a body protector!
and i think if this horse is sooo bad he shouldnt be forced to jump and like osmeone else said..left to what he can do best...
and if the horses reallly is that wild it shouldnt be up to you to re-train him and your instrucotr shoudl giv eyou another horse or give you sound advice as to how to approach this probelm...
lots of people ask advice on here but you hardly ever hear if they have actually asked their instrucot at the riding shcool how they think they should handle the sitution..
hope you get the problme sorted one way or another :)
sorry i havent repeated anything but horselovers post was soo long i didnt have time to read it all!

[horselover]

I just hate when we never hear how things go when we hear about a problem, so I was jsut wondering if you would bring us up to date, if you could please?

[HopeLock]

Hi everyone! :o sorry i didn't get a chance to update. my sister spilled a chocolate milk shake on my keyboard and we had to get a new one. I tried what horselover said and it worked! that and we decided after ground poles that we would do gymnastics with the ring rail at the end. This makes him stop. Thank you everyone for your tips, they helped a lot! Luke isn't my horse and i hope that the other person that rides him, doesn't reverse all of the training we've given him! Thanks again, and from now on i'll keep everyone posted.

[horselover]

That's ok that you didn't reply hopelock! I was just curious!

I am so glad that everyone's suggestions helped you. I know the feeling of getting a horse going and then worrying that someone else will ruin him- I hope for your sake and Luke's that that doesn't happen to you! Sometimes, if possible, it helps if you tell the other rider(s) what you have been working on and how it's helped.

Thanks for updating us!

[EventPony]

I cant give u any suggestions, and im sorry..but my friend had the same problem. See...she said she just plain didnt like jumping (and a hock problem developed later on, so that didnt help)...but she did have her ears up (i think..she hasnt jumped for a while) when she jumped, and she was an awesome jumper...well..im just saying...he could just hate jumping or he couldb be in physical pain when he jumps...well...tell us what happens!

[fiesty_filly]

As long as your horse insn't a refuser than this works!

When you go up to the fence HALT! Do a dead stop right in front of the fence then turn it away. Then if they speed up again HALT then. Then again and again until they don't speed up then let them go over it. If they speed up on the other side then HALT them. Do this until they don't speed up at all and they praise them and end the lesson.

[fiesty_filly]

As long as your horse insn't a refuser than this works!

When you go up to the fence HALT! Do a dead stop right in front of the fence then turn it away. Then if they speed up again HALT then. Then again and again until they don't speed up then let them go over it. If they speed up on the other side then HALT them. Do this until they don't speed up at all and they praise them and end the lesson.

[floppy]

and what happens if the horse is the typical type that gets over excited and you cant halt them before the fence?

[liz--y]

you could curcle so the horse doesnt know wether he is going to jump, curcle round the fence or in fount the frence.

[floppy]

yeh true..hehe didnt think of that.

[liz--y]

i wouldnt like to ask my pony to stop at a fence, even if it wasnt a refuser it could easily teach them

[floppy]

i was just thinking of that because my riding instructor use to tell me that if bottled out of a jump and made the horse refuse/stop before the jump then it will get in the habbit of doing it.
i really do think though this topic means going rightback to the basics and makign sure you can speed up adn slow down the horse when youa re riding general and mayeb do alot of schoolign aroudn the jumps so the horse get suse to them, weaving in and out and then doing some polework and working from there.
I remember i use to jump a horse and if you didnt weave inbetween the jumps when warming up she woudl be an absolute phsyco to jump.
maybe you could even remove all the poles off the jumps and just place one pole on the floor inbetween the wings and try riding through them every so often in warm ups?

[horselover]

I would also be very careful about stopping horses before the fence- I am not sure I would use that as a usual training method.

Rascal- who went through just about every bad habit a jumper can- used to refuse fences. I hated that- I prefer a horse who rushes fences over one who refuses... rushing is SOOO much easier to fix. Anyway, when he was in his "rushing" stage, there were a couple times i halted him in between fences, like jumpign a line--- trot first fence, halt, trot second fence. But I never would have stopped him dead in front of a jump. i thin kthat would be confusing to the horse. If you did stop them m in front of the fence, i would suggest asking them to jump the fence from where you stop them-- don't so a circle. If you stop the horse because they are rushing, and give them a firm voice signal that means no (I use the "AHHH!" sound) and then make them jump the fence from right where they are--- from a standstill--- then that would be more of a reinforcement. I think it would signal more clearly to the horse that rushing is bad.

[HopeLock]

I don't think that stopping a horse before the fence helps at all.in fact i think it makes the horse refuse the fence. If you just keep stopping/circling your horse will think 'oh itz ok to duck out fences' and that gives you a whole new problem!;) Luke is doing a lot better now. he has graduated from gymnastics to aa small 5 fence course. i also talked to the other person who rides him, and she knows i'm still training him, so shes helping me out with him.:D :)

[horselover]

Glad that Luke is doing better! :)