open or blinkered bridles

[rider1]

Hi ~`!

I had an interesting conversation with a person down the road from us, who insists that there is no problem in Driving in open bridles...in fact almost never uses blinkered bridles for any of his driving turnouts.
I found this rather odd,..if not dangerous and went on to tell him that ,.perhaps feeling out of my league as he has been training longer than i have been around,(as he implied).
In fact i have have even seen him jogging his standardbred on the road in an open bridle.
As i told him,.i would allways take that extra measure and work the horses in closed bridles as its allways that 1% chance that they will panic and disaster could happen.
In fact in the formal driving world and even CDE closed bridles are mandatory

Am i right?

Robbie

[Peace]

I am feeling out of my league responding, as I've had a grand total of two driving lessons, :o but my instructor told me that although blinkered bridles are used for pleasure driving traditionally the military used open bridles. The thinking was that a horse in a combat situation needed to be able to see and avoid dangers.

[Miriam]

Some horses dont like blinkers. If I remember correctly there is no rule that says you have to drive in blinkers

[Esther.D]

Blinkers are a traditional safety precaution. I would be cautious about dispensing with them as even the most sensible horse and experienced can take unexpected fright at the vehicle/whip/wheels turning behind them. Saying that I have driven several of mine blinkerless with no problems at all. If you look at the team the Duke of Edinburgh drives in driving trials at least his leaders are blinkerless so FEI rules must allow it?..not sure about his wheelers. Certainly in private driving classes they are mandatory. So it is certainly possible but you do need a steady horse, not something to be tried on a whim if you are not 100% sure of your horse..and even then try it cautiously with plenty of helpers the first time :)

[Wally]

Are you sure Esther? I'm not certain, I think you can drive things like Fjords in traditional Norwegian harness in Private driving, after all the turnout is 100% correct in every way.

As I've just said Norwegian harness doesn't have winkers.

It all really depends upon the horse, I made the conciouos decision not to start hákon with a closed bridle as I knew this would freak him, I started him in an open bridle and he's fine, couldn't care less.

Haflingers too are rarely driven in winkers in Austria. I'm not sure I;d like to drive our Welsh D in an open bridle, I think he'd make things up to amuse himself.

There is no more danger driving in an open bridle than a closed on. Blinkers were used as a shortcut really to getting horses going in harness, they didn't have the time to accustomise the horses, fast turnover, stack 'em high and churn them out. These days you can spend longer getting the horse used to working in an open bridle, Things like Fjords and Icelandics don't care about the cart, they tend to put their trust in the gaffer, and If I say it's okay they will trust me, after all they can see me and hear me....so in theory they should respond better.

I think this is Piggy on his first day between the shafts.

[Wally]

I just drove him in his riding bridle with a drop and snaffle, no winkers.....does he look bovvered?

[Esther.D]

Are you sure Esther? I'm not certain, I think you can drive things like Fjords in traditional Norwegian harness in Private driving, after all the turnout is 100% correct in every way.



I bow to your greater knowledge here - I didn't realise Norwegian harness was blinkerless :o So no, I am not sure :)

I have happily driven blinkerless and see no problem at all with it...I am just a bit cautious of taking the blinkers straight off a driving horse who is used to them without adequate safety precautions ;)

[Wally]

I made a big mistake once. My Haflinger stallion was used to driving pairs, singles etc. Weddings and the like. I used to drive him around the motorway junction and along a major A road, dual carriageway. He was a very, very experienced and reliable driving horse.

Now one day I had bought a new cart and had measured it for height, and I just wanted to make sure that it was as I had imagined him in it. So while he was tied up on the yard in a head collar I pulled the vehicle up behind him to just eye the shft height up. he had always driven in a closed bridle.

Well, he had kittens! So there you go. If your horse is used to blinkers stick with them, if like Hákon you have that kind of mind and you've never worn tham then stick with what you know. Breeding and temperament have as much a part to play as training.

Shetlands, Fjords, Icelandics I'd drive winkerless. if done so from the start.

[Miriam]

I've just started long reining Peter ready to start him for a harness. He is pefectly happy at the moment but yep I was wondering if I should start straight away with blinkers or leave him unblinkered?

[jinglejoys]

I think a lot of this is just tradition.For instance tack has to be Black for this and Brown for that--nowadays when we have so many alternatives why can't we use whatever we like as long as its safe.
I was at a driving clinic yesterday where they spent ages telling you which way to get in and out of the cart and how to hold the reins etc yet they parade round the ring in flowery bonnets with not a hard hat in sight!

[Wally]

Look at the statistics, driving is far, far less dangerous than riding. Private driving classes you won't see a hard hat because this is where the turnout is being judged on turnout and traditional harness and cart and historical correctness. Now go to a driving trial, you'll see crash hats there, it all depends upon which driven discipline you are talking about.

If you want to learn to ride or drive you must have a grounding in why things are done the way they are, 99% of them are done for safety alone.

DO you know why private driving classes you get in one side and for working vehicles you get in the other?

[jinglejoys]

No I don't Wally is it something to do with unloading safely?
I was only really interested in pleasure driving but it got so there were so many rules there was no pleasure in it :D

[Wally]

There are a lot of safety rules I will grant you, the getting in thing I always explain the reasons and when you do it , then for pleasure leave it up ti the person getting in which side they prefer, but if you ever want to go further and teach or enter a show it is vital that you know how and why and perfect your mounting technique.

Lord and Lady Snot get on on the right because the box seat is closer and they are not jumping on and off in the path of traffic. Yer pled who is delivering goods gets on on the left so he is on and off onto the footpath! But it's like getting on a horse the horse doesn't care which side you get on so long as you do it nicely! :D :D

The safety rules are there to keep you from having an accident which can be easily avoided, that's where the "pleasure" comes into pleasure driving. Being able to go out and come back and keeping everyone safe.

Once the rules are there though you'll stick to them automatically.

Tradition is facinating, I am a bit weird, I do not like folk sticking ridgidly to traditions for no good reason, but I love to know why things are/were done, however I do like private driving, wherby you have to demonstrate you knowledge of history and tradition and bullsh1t :o :o If you are going to do something like private driving you HAVE to pay attention to detail. ie if you have a liveried groom you have to get him to take the garter straps off his long boots, good judges will mark you down for something as silly as two little straps 3/8 of an inch wide! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[galadriel]

The safety rules are there to keep you from having an accident which can be easily avoided, that's where the "pleasure" comes into pleasure driving. Being able to go out and come back and keeping everyone safe.

Do you know of an online resource where I can find a list of these? I'm quite curious to know; I know the safety precautions are different from riding, but how so?

And what's a garter strap on a long boot? I only know of garter straps for wearing with short boots :) worn under the knee to keep jods from riding up the leg.

[Wally]

Garter straps on long boots stop (or are supposed to stop) the boot from falling down and wrinkling. In the UK we don't use the same garter straps at the knee with short boots, we use jhoddy clips which grip the hem of the jhods, go under the foot in front of the heel, then back round to the other hem, this stops them riding up.

There are all sorts or rules, too many to list, but a few are things like remembering that a horse in a winkered bridle need to be handled differentlt as he hasn't the same field of view, Put his harness on in the stable if you must, but NEVER the bridle as he can knock his hips badly on the doors as he leaves. If you have 12 foot wide barn doors it doesn't matter, they will fit through.

NEVER take the bridle off until the horse is out of the cart.
Never let anyone sit in the vehicle without the driver being there with the reins. The driver gets in first and out last.
Never tie a horse and cart to anything, or another turnout. Once he is put to you HOLD ON TO HIM!
Using the correct bits and harness to go with the cart you have, really does make the difference between an accident waiting to happen and eliminating the potential.

The British Driving Society have a good site with links here and there.

[galadriel]

Thanks Wally--

Your discussion with Peace made me intrigued (plus the rising gas prices are making me think) so I'm looking into getting some driving exposure with a local farm who does lessons and has a visiting clinician monthly. I'm just looking right now for some general guidelines; I feel I know nothing about safety regarding harness & driving, and would like to have a bit more information that I currently do.

[galadriel]

Been pondering this. If you don't tie up a horse who's still hitched, what did people used to do when they drove a cart somewhere and were only going to be inside briefly? Unhitch but leave the harness on? Have absolute discipline with ground tying?

Or is this another place where the groom comes in, and you don't worry about such things because you have a hireling? ;)

I'm thinking of old books and art I've seen of horse/horses hitched, usually to a doctor's buggy kind of thing, standing outside in the rain...not that art and literature necessarily get such things right, which I well know, but ...

[Esther.D]

Depends what you were driving.......

milk or similar delivery vehicles had horses trained to 'park' until they were needed so would stand unattended.

posh carriages etc had grooms

cabbies and carters were not allowed to leave their vehicle unattended - resulting in the interesting English law that allows them to relieve themselves in public so long as it is on the offside (ie not on the pavement!) and well hidden under their apron!

I suspect a number were tied up hitched, but it seems to be more of a US than a UK thing - after all the UK does not have hitching posts/rails as standard.

[H & Bailey]

wow so much to take on board.As a newbie to driving its really interesting!I havent taken Bruno out on the open road yet but just bumbled round the field.He seems to go on automatic pilot!
piggy does look smart in his little trap...gonna have to get piccis of me and bruno!

[jinglejoys]

Wally-another question this lady instructing said you HAD to tack up from a certain side.Can't remember which side because my mind went blank as soon as the word "Had" came into it ;) I now ride and my animal has to learn to be led, tacked up ,mounted,and dismounted from either side (One of the obstacles in Le Trec) Isn't it best to teach driving equinea the same thing?

[Esther.D]

Mine can all be tacked up from all and every angle..and stand unheld for that matter...the driving world works in its own way. There are the traditions and then there are the day to day practices. Like coachman style rein handling, you do not *need* to drive this way (although in my opinion it is much safer and gives more feel) but it is a lot easier to learn this way and THEN learn two handed than the other way about. Ditto, I learnt to tack up from one side, I learnt what should be worn with what, what vehicle should go with what and the whip signals etc that are all defunct on the road today (still used in private driving classes though). I then proceeded to drive in club driving trials and learn lots of new less traditional stuff...but the traditional grounding did come in handy, even if some bits - such as the difference between a Collinge and a Mail axle (which I have now forgotten :o ) - have never been of any use to me in 15 years of driving. Like Wally I actually quite like the traditions and am full of useless pieces of info but doesn't mean I use them all on a day to day basis. But the basic safety ones quoted by Wally above I DO use.

[Wally]

I know, it was one of the questions I got asked in my driving exam.........and I've forgotten too!

If you don't move in those circles every day and use the knowledge it goes!

:o :o

[Chip]

Back to the topic of blinkers. I have had two driving ponies (I am by no means experienced) and one drove either with or without blinkers with no problems, the other has never worn blinkers. Never had any problems without them. Our cob was broken to harness with blinkers and i can understand that he may not like it without blinkers. If it is what they are brought to, I really see no reason why they should not be driven without blinkers.

[Laurence E. B-B]

I drove my Thoroughbred stallion to a high wheel gig for many years and always open-faced. he was about 8 when I broke him to harness, and he never put a foot wrong. Mind you he was the one horse in a million; not that I'm at all biased. It seems to me that here in Australia that blinkers are used for showing certainly, but I have seen a lot of pleasure driving done open-faced. My tuppence, for what it's worth.

[Laetitia]

You don't have to harness up on any paricular side. The most important thing is that you harness up in sequence. This is again for safety so you don't forget anything. The collar/brollar/breast collar is always put on first - this is traditional, to warm the collar up. Then you proceed with saddle pad, crupper,traces breeching etc whatever. Bridle, reins last on first off -AFTER YOU HAVE UNHITCHED FROM VEHICLE.
Similiarly putting too, you always do it in sequence- put each shaft in, then each trace, then breeching, then belly band. The reason is again safety. If you harness one side completely before going round and doing all the other side and the horse spooks he will turn the cart and frighten himself and you to death. This is the most vulnerable time and you want the horse secured in the vehicle with the tugs and traces. L

[chev]

I'm glad I found this. We tried Gelfy with blinkers a couple of days ago. Until now, even in harness, he's been long-reined in his riding bridle. He's never had blinkers on.We thought we'd try them because he's not always easy to keep in a straight line; he's always trying to look at things on his sighted side, and falls in at the shoulder as a result.

Blinkers and Gelfy are, it seems, a non-starter. Just standing in the stable where we tack up, he freaked big-time at wearing them. Even adjusted so that they were pretty 'open' he still panicked. I'd pretty much decided that he'll carry on in an open bridle, and hopefully drive that way too. At the same time, I was wondering how advisable that was.

So, are we best just carrying on in an open bridle, and taking things very slowly? Or should we persevere with blinkers so the option is there if need be? (and if so, any ideas on how to convince Gelfy that he hasn't gone completely blind?!)

[Esther.D]

I would definitely opt for an open bridle with Gelfy. It just sounds like a non-starter restricting his sight even further, and unnecessarily stressful for him :)

[chev]

Thanks Esther. We'll carry on with that then :)

[esse]

I read somewhere that one reason for blinkers was as protection for the eyes of the wheelers, from the reins of the leaders or the lash of the whip when used on the leaders. Seems vaguely logical ...

[Wally]

Yes I suppose it would be a help with the wheelers eyes getting flapping reins in the face..

The lash from the whip I wouldn't have thought would be a issue though.

[Esther.D]

I should hope the driver has better aim than to get them in the eye with the whip, even the wheelers in a multiple :eek: However I do think it helps re the reins on wheelers, not only the risk of catching them in the eye but as much as anything I think it must be really annoying to continually see a rein at the edge of your vision! Plus with my pair I was worried they would catch each other in the eye with their bits when they flung their heads around occasionally.

[Jessey]

Feel really silly here, but why shouldn't you tie a horse when harnessed (with cart)? We do it loads and have never had a problem :o

J x

[Wally]

You havn't had a problem yet, but when it happens it will happen BIG TIME and the accident which occurs when the horse does pull back will be a big one.

The whole thing with driving is you must always limit the risk, If a horse pulls back and gets away on his onw he hasn't got a cart and winkers on as he gallops off, he can see and he is smaller.


A panicing horse with winkers and cart attached is a REAL hazzard to shipping!

It's not something I allow on my premesis. it only takes a minute to take out and tie the horse up without the cart. One day it might just save you a big accident.

[Laetitia]

At a show a few years ago, saw a couple of Shires take off. They weren't put too, just standing in headcollars on the side of the lorry - all very normal and usual. Suddenly they were off and took the whole side of the lorry with them. Imagine that with a cart behind!. L

[linz20]

[I always use closed bridles while driving. Its alot safer than open. Especially where we are (i.e. main road). You can never underestimate horses or ponies. It is mandatory in the ring but i'm not sure out of. Its common sense to, its one of many reasons why they were created. It also makes them concerntrate and focus.

linz

[Wally]

No, blinkers were created to get harness horses trained faster, in the old days they didn't have time to spend getting a horse which was a bit scatty used the seeing the cart, so they used blinkers to stack 'em hight and train 'em fast.

Blinkers are not manditory in the ring, if I was in a private driving class in traditional Norwegian vehicle, drawn by Fjords wearing traditional Norwegian harness which doesn't have winkers I'd be technically correct and safe. Traditional Haflinger harness has no winkers. Some Hungarian harness doesn't.

Blinkers do not make horses concentrate, it can, in some cases cause them to be very upset. I know some of my horses well enought to know that driving them in winkers would casue problems so I started them and drove them winkerless.

It is a huge subject for debate.

[tazzle22]

taz is driven in an open bridle .... even though we did try her with them when we first started. She did not object and was not frightened ..... but likes to see things and it made her turn her head much, much more than if we left them off :D

I too am one of these that always asks WHY ...... I dont like doing something "just because" !!!!

I was given dire warnings form some people when I said I used and opne bridle .... cart wheels would frighten horse if bridle came loose /off.... ooooopppppppssssss :eek: ..... sorry I would rather Taz be at ease with what I am asking her to do and that the object she is pulling is not a horse eating monster !!!!!

ditto re the whip . Taz was terrified of the darn things many moons ago ..... but loads of work later she is quite relaxed with them. Almost every time we go out and it is safe to do so I practice swirling it around unconnected to any verbal command. She is therefore so used to the sight and of it that she will not "spook" at it ...... and as Esther says ...... hope my aim is not that bad I get her in the eye !!!!!

lin I am fairly sure the main reason blinkers were created was as protection for driving horses in the crowded streets of towns and cities when there was a REAL danger of other drivers whips catching your horse in the face . imagine london rush hour in victorian era ???

(maybe also even further back in history for protection in battle ????)

I personally think that if a horse is intrododuced to driving in an open bridle then it rarely actually needs one later ...... and why should it make a difference with a main road ..... after all ridden horses do not need them in traffic !


I think that it is a case of a lot of drivers doing what "has been done" without really thinking the process through ... just accepting the "safety" issue....... which can and is called into question increasingly ....

[Shiny McShine]

We always used to work ours in harness open-faced but it is very important to start off that way as Wally said. We were always taught to start harness horses like that because if you drive a horse who has only ever worn winkers and for some reason they come off you can be in a lot of trouble. There is nothing to say that you can't train a horse to wear them eventually, but the other way around is a lot more difficult.